Proof for praying to saints

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Very well put. You know, l think the truth of the matter is that most times, non-Catholics do not actually want to find out the truth regarding Catholic teaching but prefer to console themselves by denying all that is catholic. Accepting Catholic doctrine to stem from the Early church, Peter and the Apostles flies in their face with the possibility that they are not in the right place where they are and are following ‘other’ doctrine. They are not open to pondering objectively about such things, and when ‘issues’ such as praying to saints are presented like has been done here, it only makes it obvious they choose to live in denial.
 
Very well put. You know, l think the truth of the matter is that most times, non-Catholics do not actually want to find out the truth regarding Catholic teaching but prefer to console themselves by denying all that is catholic. Accepting Catholic doctrine to stem from the Early church, Peter and the Apostles flies in their face with the possibility that they are not in the right place where they are and are following ‘other’ doctrine. They are not open to pondering objectively about such things, and when ‘issues’ such as praying to saints are presented like has been done here, it only makes it obvious they choose to live in denial.
Give us some reasons to believe your claim the RCC really was founded by Christ. Don’t just expect people to believe what you are saying without citing secular and non-secular sources.
 
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twb1621:
Okay. Why not publically rebuke them for their support of evil worldly practices and let them know they have excommunicated themselves?
 
Okay. Why not publicly rebuke them for their support of evil worldly practices and let them know they have excommunicated themselves?
They already know without doubt. There is no denying that by them if they are honest about their being “practicing Catholics”.

Remember that when the romans and the Pharisees came for Jesus in the Garden and Peter drew his sword, Jesus stopped him and cured the wound inflicted by Peter. This was an enemy who was there to take Jesus to His torture and death.

Remember when James and John wanted our Lord to call in lightening against the towns people who would not let them in when they were hungry in their travels, our Lord refused and settled the brothers.

Everything we think is right in the way we would handle things is not always what Jesus wants from us.

And if you really want proof the Catholic Faith is the original Church of Jesus, all you have to do is read the history of Christianity and the succession of popes or Bishops of Rome from Peter on. It would be a good idea for you, certainly wouldn’t hurt to know, would it? If you do that and have additional questions, bring them here and you will get help with the answers.👍
 
Give us some reasons to believe your claim the RCC really was founded by Christ. Don’t just expect people to believe what you are saying without citing secular and non-secular sources.
I am sorry, Chris. Jesus only founded one Church. That Church is Catholic. If you don’t believe this, then you will have to be the one to “prove” otherwise. I know of no historical evidence, secular or not, that can refute this fact.
Okay. Why not publically rebuke them for their support of evil worldly practices and let them know they have excommunicated themselves?
I agree! Have you considered writing a letter to their bishop, asking why? Or, perhaps, a letter to the US council of bishops?
 
They already know without doubt. There is no denying that by them if they are honest about their being “practicing Catholics”.

Remember that when the romans and the Pharisees came for Jesus in the Garden and Peter drew his sword, Jesus stopped him and cured the wound inflicted by Peter. This was an enemy who was there to take Jesus to His torture and death.

Remember when James and John wanted our Lord to call in lightening against the towns people who would not let them in when they were hungry in their travels, our Lord refused and settled the brothers.

Everything we think is right in the way we would handle things is not always what Jesus wants from us.

And if you really want proof the Catholic Faith is the original Church of Jesus, all you have to do is read the history of Christianity and the succession of popes or Bishops of Rome from Peter on. It would be a good idea for you, certainly wouldn’t hurt to know, would it? If you do that and have additional questions, bring them here and you will get help with the answers.👍
Here’s one:

What’s more offensive and sinful; Ordaining women, or contributing to the killing of unborn children? If you are going to excommunicate a priest for ordaining women, why not excommunicate people who promote and protect laws favoring abortion?
 
I agree! Have you considered writing a letter to their bishop, asking why? Or, perhaps, a letter to the US council of bishops?
I contacted priests for life and they sent me a lenthy response. It turned my stomach to see people who claim to follow Christ and represent His Church not taking more of a stand against corruption.

Dear Christopher,

The following is an answer that Father Pavone has written because we receive questions like yours fairly often, especially in this election season.

Thank you for your question about excommunication. The Code of Canon Law offers bishops various options for dealing with those who publicly depart from Church teaching. The first, and most basic, is to clearly enunciate the teachings of the Church, and our bishops have certainly done that. In regard to excommunication, there are various conditions and limits set by canon law. But canon law is not the only consideration. Bishops must make pastoral judgments as to what actions in a particular circumstance will best accomplish what they need to do. We at Priests for Life trust that local bishops make the best judgment that they can in their pastoral circumstances. We also know that much goes on behind the scenes that we do not hear or know about, such as private meetings with those who contradict Church teaching. The following passage from the US Bishops’ document Living the Gospel of Life (1998), n.29. may further help you understand the approach which the bishops take. Meanwhile, we ask you to pray for, support, and encourage our bishops in the tremendously difficult job they have.
 
“As bishops, we have the responsibility to call Americans to conversion, including political leaders, and especially those publicly identified as Catholic. As the Holy Father reminds us in The Splendor of the Truth (Veritatis Splendor): “. . . [It] is part of our pastoral ministry to see to it that [the Church’s] moral teaching is faithfully handed down, and to have recourse to appropriate measures to ensure that the faithful are guarded from every doctrine and theory contrary to it” (116). As chief teachers in the Church, we must therefore explain, persuade, correct and admonish those in leadership positions who contradict the Gospel of life through their actions and policies. Catholic public officials who disregard Church teaching on the inviolability of the human person indirectly collude in the taking of innocent life. A private call to conversion should always be the first step in dealing with these leaders. Through prayer, through patiently speaking the truth in love, and by the witness of our lives, we must strive always to open their hearts to the God-given dignity of the unborn and of all vulnerable persons. So also we must remind these leaders of their duty to exercise genuine moral leadership in society. They do this not by unthinking adherence to public opinion polls or by repeating empty pro-choice slogans, but by educating and sensitizing themselves and their constituents to the humanity of the unborn child. At the same time we need to redouble our efforts to evangelize and catechize our people on the dignity of life and the wrongness of abortion. Nonetheless, some Catholic officials may exclude themselves from the truth by refusing to open their minds to the Church’s witness. In all cases, bishops have the duty and pastoral responsibility to continue to challenge those officials on the issue in question and persistently call them to a change of heart. As bishops we reflect particularly on the words of the Office of Readings: ‘Let us be neither dogs that do not bark nor silent onlookers nor paid servants who run away before the wolf. Instead, let us be careful shepherds watching over Christ’s flock. Let us preach the whole of God’s plan to the powerful and the humble, to rich and to poor, to men of every rank and age, as far as God gives us the strength, in season and out of season, as St. Gregory writes in his book of Pastoral Instruction.’”

Many good things are happening since the election. I was encouraged by Cardinal George’s statement made on behalf of all of the bishops last week. Please read these articles at lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111209.html and lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111213.html. The statements in the second article are very strong. I think that the statements by an increasing number of bishops prior to the election will give you some additional encouragement; you will find them at priestsforlife.org/elections/bishops.htm. The joint statement by the Bishops of Dallas and Ft. Worth is probably the most powerful to date.

Priests for Life and many other pro-life organizations will be very active well before the inauguration to help bring about the defeat of FOCA. You should familiarize yourself with the following Priests for Life link prolifestrategy.com/ now so as to be able to participate. This is an incredibly important window of time before the inauguration; we need to be working on our senators and congress people NOW to let them know that we will not tolerate the passage of FOCA now or ever. Please go to www.fightfoca.com and join over 186,000 pro-lifers who have signed the Fight FOCA Petition and then pass it on. In addition, you should be sure that you fully understand what the FOCA Bill is; you will find this information at nrlc.org/FOCA/LawmakersProposeFOCA.html. It would “sweep away” hundreds of pro-life laws and policies on the local, state and federal level, including the Partial Birth Abortion Ban. It would replace Roe V. Wade and Doe V. Bolton.

The purpose of the rest of this e-mail is to make you aware of the status of the Missionaries of the Gospel of Life which Father Pavone started in 2005. Jim Pinto is our National Coordinator and my primary job and passion here is helping him to grow this wonderful organization.

The primary goal of the Missionaries of the Gospel of Life is to give support and a sense of confidence to pro-lifers through prayer, study, community and apostolic witness to people who may not currently be fully connected with the pro-life cause in their area. Even people who already are active in local pro-life groups find our national organization to be very nurturing.

Our online community has been enthusiastically received by well over 200 members and is a great way to communicate with other Lay Associates all over the country. Jim has launched the M.E.V. teleconferencing calls and now that the election is over I am sure that he will plan another one soon. There are over 1,190 people registered in our country as well as several more in Canada, the UK and Australia and 24 Lay Associate groups called Life Cells have been formed and have monthly meetings. 86 people have now made their initial or permanent promises. You will be able do some very beneficial networking through the Lay Associates.

Jim Pinto is available to come to your area to assist in training and recruiting new members.

Yours in Christ,

Ray Mooney, M.E.V.

Missionaries of the Gospel of Life

Lay Associate

Priests for Life
PO Box 141172
Staten Island, NY 10314

888-PFL-3448
718-980-4400

Click here to visit the Priests for Life website

Click here to view the M.E.V. Lay Associates Website
 
It is not necessary to make intercessory requests if you are catholic.
This is true, I asked the priest.

But someone said on these forums, neither is it necessary
to turn on the air conditioning in 90 degree heat.
 
Here’s one:

What’s more offensive and sinful; Ordaining women, or contributing to the killing of unborn children? If you are going to excommunicate a priest for ordaining women, why not excommunicate people who promote and protect laws favoring abortion?
A priest is ordained to devote his life to the service of God and represents the Church and its teachings. Excommunication would then be more of a requirement if he was teaching against God’s word. People know the affects of their sins but they have no ordained authority to represent God’s church.
 
**My fellow Catholics,

I have been praying on what Chris LaRock has been saying. I have to agree with him. Our bishops will not excommunicate members of the church that they know support abortion because no one is forcing them to do it! :mad:
What can we do as individuals? I suggest that “everyone” find out the e-mail address of your local Bishop and write and tell Him that you request that he excommunicates anyone that he knows supports Abortion! Send a copy of your e-mail to your parish priest and to your Bishop’s boss! The Pope’s E-mail address is: benedictxvi@vatican.va.

If enough people actually speakout and “protest” maybe we can put an end to abortion! If not, at least they will know what we think. I personally send one to Achbishop tonight, and a copy to the Pope! Hopefully you will all follow suit and spread the word to others. We can make a difference! How can we say we are Catholics yet allow 1.7 children to be murdered in the USA every minute? If we do nothing, isn’t their blood on our hands also? Let’s make it stop!

Our Protestant brethren, why not get your politicians kicked out of your denominations? Don’t worry, they can make their own denomination.

God Bless**
 
**Our Protestant brethren, why not get your politicians kicked out of your denominations? Don’t worry, they can make their own denomination. **
Not a bad question. I’ll look into contacting various Protestant leaders.

But I did cite a story where abortionist tiller the killer was excommunicated from the Lutheran Church, and simply went to a liberal church that condones abortion.
 
I would suggest picking up the book, “Any Friend of God’s Is a Friend of Mine” by Patrick Madrid. It’s probably the easiest book I’ve found to jump into the subject and get your bearings.

I picked it up for my 12 year-old, because my sister-in-law can be anti-Catholic and challenging, so I wanted him to have simple tools to learn to defend his beliefs.
That must be a great book! I love Patrick Madrid!

Good for you to want to give your child the tools he needs to defend the faith!
 
Not a bad question. I’ll look into contacting various Protestant leaders.

But I did cite a story where abortionist tiller the killer was excommunicated from the Lutheran Church, and simply went to a liberal church that condones abortion.
**That is a “problem” with Protestant denominations. If they disagree, they leave and start their own denomination someeven call them non-denominational and practice the beliefs that they believed from the previous denomination that they belonged to before quiting except what they didn’t like or couldn’t accept!

Can you believe any “Christian” church condoning abortion no matter how liberal? Must have been in California! **
 
**That is a “problem” with Protestant denominations. If they disagree, they leave and start their own denomination someeven call them non-denominational and practice the beliefs that they believed from the previous denomination that they belonged to before quiting except what they didn’t like or couldn’t accept!

Can you believe any “Christian” church condoning abortion no matter how liberal? Must have been in California! **
In most protestant denominations, they excommunicate people more readily if they are unrepentant sinners who insist on sinning after being warned. Why can’t the RCC do that? You are the one true church, right? My old Lutheran Church excommunicated a Pastor for cheating on his wife. They also excommunicated my Aunt for living in sin with her boyfriend.

If these so-called phoney churches can practice discression like that and keep the congregations clear of such unrepentant sinners, why can’t you if you have the true church?
 
In most protestant denominations, they excommunicate people more readily if they are unrepentant sinners who insist on sinning after being warned. Why can’t the RCC do that? You are the one true church, right? My old Lutheran Church excommunicated a Pastor for cheating on his wife. They also excommunicated my Aunt for living in sin with her boyfriend.

If these so-called phoney churches can practice discression like that and keep the congregations clear of such unrepentant sinners, why can’t you if you have the true church?
**

Chris,
I actually never thought about it. It is beyond my “paygrade” I am sure they do, it just isn’t publicized. I know of many catholics that were told not to come back to the sacraments until they got their lives in order. I don’t know if excommunicating people helps them.
We are all sinners in the eyes of God. I will have to pray on your question before I could give a better response. I remember that Jesus always was found with the sinners. Maybe He was trying to teach us something? I know our church is made up of sinners.

It has been said that the Catholic Church is so large that “anything” you say is true! Just don’t use absolutes like “Every one” or “all” and almost any thing you say will be true!
Like “There are killers who are catholic!” “There are saints that are catholic” “There are catholic Homosexuals” “Some Catholics are millionaires” “Some Catholics are evil!” What ever you say is true. Does that make us any less worthly in Jesus’ eyes?

The Church is the real church which is jguided by the Holy Spirit, and as such, the Church can not err! The members, being human ,can even the Pope. He would be the first to admit that aso! Only our leader, Jesus can not err! 👍

God Bless

Don’t worry! Someone will give you and I an answer. It might not be correct but they still will! 😃 **
 
Blessings***

Ok, Im following this excommunicating thing and Im quit confused. So should we get rid of every sinner in the church?

How about we excommunicate all smokers? I mean after all second hand smoke kills millions of innocent people.(Children included)

Or how about we excommunicate all drunk drivers? after all They kill innocent family’s on there way home.

Shall I keep going? So anyone who sells alcohol or cigarettes should also be excommunicated because there part of the problem. Or how about anyone who makes these products? Shall we ban them also?

“Ye without sin, cast the first stone”
 
Okay. Why not publically rebuke them for their support of evil worldly practices and let them know they have excommunicated themselves?
Why not? Well … I’m not entirely sure. But let me ask you, why do you think it is that almost every mainline Protestant denomination is even more lax about that sort of thing than the RCC is?
 
Blessings***

Ok, Im following this excommunicating thing and Im quit confused. So should we get rid of every sinner in the church?

How about we excommunicate all smokers? I mean after all second hand smoke kills millions of innocent people.(Children included)

Or how about we excommunicate all drunk drivers? after all They kill innocent family’s on there way home.

Shall I keep going? So anyone who sells alcohol or cigarettes should also be excommunicated because there part of the problem. Or how about anyone who makes these products? Shall we ban them also?

“Ye without sin, cast the first stone”
**
Like you say once we start where would we stop? That may be the reason the Church doesn’t excommunicate often. I really think murdering children is much worse than smoking or drunk driving, but I do understand your point. I already said ,any church that was perfect, wouldn’t let me in anyway!
Reference the “Ye without sin, cast the first stone” When Jesus said that he was hit in the back of the head with a stone. Shocked, He turned around and said “Mom, what are you doing here?”
That is an old alterboy joke! Must have heard it for the first time 50 years ago or more. Might earn me 10,000 in purgatory, If Jesus doesn’t have a sense of Humor. It could get me burnt at a stake here on this thread! 😃 **
 
I contacted priests for life and they sent me a lenthy response. It turned my stomach to see people who claim to follow Christ and represent His Church not taking more of a stand against corruption.

Dear Christopher,

The following is an answer that Father Pavone has written because we receive questions like yours fairly often, especially in this election season.

Thank you for your question about excommunication. The Code of Canon Law offers bishops various options for dealing with those who publicly depart from Church teaching. The first, and most basic, is to clearly enunciate the teachings of the Church, and our bishops have certainly done that. In regard to excommunication, there are various conditions and limits set by canon law. But canon law is not the only consideration. Bishops must make pastoral judgments as to what actions in a particular circumstance will best accomplish what they need to do. We at Priests for Life trust that local bishops make the best judgment that they can in their pastoral circumstances. We also know that much goes on behind the scenes that we do not hear or know about, such as private meetings with those who contradict Church teaching. The following passage from the US Bishops’ document Living the Gospel of Life (1998), n.29. may further help you understand the approach which the bishops take. Meanwhile, we ask you to pray for, support, and encourage our bishops in the tremendously difficult job they have.
Sounds like a pretty good letter to me. 👍
 
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