Proof for praying to saints

[bookgirl32]

True charity is respect and forgiveness. The wimpy, sugar-coated charity I speak of is where you refuse to call evil things evil for the sake of not ‘offending’ anyone. Sometimes you have to rebuke people to make them see their need to repent.

“Therefore knowing the terror of the Lord, we may persuade men.”
St. Paul

I understand your point. I dont’ think there is a church in the world that is more vocal or more of an activist against abortion. But it’s also showing great mercy to those who have participated in one, there’s nothing wrong with that (Project Rachel?)

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Hi BM,

While I wish that was the case its not the teaching of the Church.

Yes, it still is!

I was very surprised to find this out…read from the link I am giving you. Notice #5 and #6…I actually knew that and agree with it, I just stated it in laymen terms.There is no conflict actually.

catholicdoors.com/faq/qu80.htm

**
BM, What I said still stands.The Catholic Doors Ministry does not have the authority to determine what is authorized! Nor does Catholic.com That is a function of Cannon law and lawyers. I said what has been taught by the Catholic church. I personally was involved in defending a Bishop who it was claimed violated cannon law. Until “Rome” declares that a Bishop “personally” can’t do some thing he can! Even if it goes against Cannon law because He has a responsibility to his flock! **

**As I stated:

“Actually Bishops are permitted to allow their priest to offer absolution for it. Once a priest absolves the sin it is forgiven. The Bishop’s restriction on his priest giving absolution is another matter. The priest could say “I am not permitted to forgive this sin, you must go see my Bishop! to have it forgiven” If he just forgives the sin, it is forgiven! And yes this is being debated by cannon lawyers but most would agree with this stance!
Also If the person didn’t believe it was a sin, There was no sin committed! When they “realized” it was a sin, they then had to confess it but it isn’t the same grave matter as the person who “Knew” abortion was a mortal sin and did it anyway! That is much more serious and bears more serverly on the soul of the sinner.
Bishops can withhold authority of their priests in any area he so desires. He is the shephard of that flock of Jesus’ sheep!
Once a person is excommunicated, they must go to a Bishop to be reinstated into the chucrh the same as when they became members in the first place. That in no way means that their sin has not been forgiven, they just need to “reafirm” their faith. That makes sense to me!”

BM, As I said their sin is “forgiven” but they are still excummicated from the Catholic church until a Bishop hears their confession and reafirms the forgiveness. Here is the real site that matters. Not people’s opinions.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

God Bless**

 

[BMSODM]

**
BM, What I said still stands.The Catholic Doors Ministry does not have the authority to determine what is authorized! Nor does Catholic.com That is a function of Cannon law and lawyers. I said what has been taught by the Catholic church. I personally was involved in defending a Bishop who it was claimed violated cannon law. Until “Rome” declares that a Bishop “personally” can’t do some thing he can! Even if it goes against Cannon law because He has a responsibility to his flock! **

**As I stated:

“Actually Bishops are permitted to allow their priest to offer absolution for it. Once a priest absolves the sin it is forgiven. The Bishop’s restriction on his priest giving absolution is another matter. The priest could say “I am not permitted to forgive this sin, you must go see my Bishop! to have it forgiven” If he just forgives the sin, it is forgiven! And yes this is being debated by cannon lawyers but most would agree with this stance**!
Also If the person didn’t believe it was a sin, There was no sin committed! When they “realized” it was a sin, they then had to confess it but it isn’t the same grave matter as the person who “Knew” abortion was a mortal sin and did it anyway! That is much more serious and bears more serverly on the soul of the sinner.
Bishops can withhold authority of their priests in any area he so desires. He is the shephard of that flock of Jesus’ sheep!
Once a person is excommunicated, they must go to a Bishop to be reinstated into the chucrh the same as when they became members in the first place. That in no way means that their sin has not been forgiven, they just need to “reafirm” their faith. That makes sense to me!”

BM, As I said their sin is “forgiven” but they are still excummicated from the Catholic church until a Bishop hears their confession and reafirms the forgiveness. Here is the real site that matters. Not people’s opinions.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

God Bless

Ok I stand corrected. I misread your reply. I didn’t read your statement “they must go to a Bishop to be reinstated into the chucrh the same as when they became members in the first place.”…Sorry

I have bookmarked your link, thanks…(*).(^)Wink!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I understand your point. I dont’ think there is a church in the world that is more vocal or more of an activist against abortion. But it’s also showing great mercy to those who have participated in one, there’s nothing wrong with that (Project Rachel?)

**
Hi Book,
I agree with you and I support Project Rachel. But those people have repented and deserve mercy. I pray for the end of abortion and forgiveness to the parents who assisted in the murder of their child. I also pray every day for “Justice” for the aborted babies. I ask our God to bring down His just judgement on all non-repentant abortionist and supporters of Abortion! Just as He gives mercy to people who repent He owes justice to the murdered babies!

I pray especially againt the salvation of a Killer named George Tiller, He stated he personally preformed 60 thousand abortions. This animal even baptizes the babies before throwing their bodys into medical waste bags. dr-tiller.com I petition God daily for His swift and just judgement on this son of Satan. He is a creation of God’s. He is not a son of God and deserves no mercy unless he repents. I pray that he doesn’t repent and spends eternity in the fire of hell in payment for the 60 thousand murders!

God Bless**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Ok I stand corrected. I misread your reply. I didn’t read your statement “they must go to a Bishop to be reinstated into the chucrh the same as when they became members in the first place.”…Sorry

I have bookmarked your link, thanks…(*).(^)Wink!

** Hi BM,

I am not always right, just seldom wrong:coffeeread: : OK, once in a while, OK, once a week! OK, once a day! shaw: And don’t listen to my wife!

God Bless**

 

[rinnie]

Ok I stand corrected. I misread your reply. I didn’t read your statement “they must go to a Bishop to be reinstated into the chucrh the same as when they became members in the first place.”…Sorry

I have bookmarked your link, thanks…(*).(^)Wink!

Also according to the ccc The church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy, Rather she makes clear the gravity of the crime commited the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death as well as his parents and the whole society.

And realcatholic I would rather hear what your wife has to say:egyptian:

 

[rinnie]

The reason I am struggling is because There are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people who have went before a priest and confessed being part of an abortion over this life time and I find it hard to beleive that if there heart was truelly repentive that after a priest absolved them of there sin that they are not forgiven because they didnt go before a Bishop. This teaching I beleive isn’t a correct teaching by the cannon law.

So that is why I struggle between mercy and obedience in this matter of abortion…

I understand what you are saying, but I think it all goes back to, I made a big mistake and I am so so sorry. And think about it do you really think anyone can have a abortion and it won’t come back to bite them in the end. Oh it may take months, years, but I am sure as time goes by everyday and the older they get they think Good God what did I do. I really believe that. People may fool you on the outside and be very very defensive, and thats usually the ones who can’t forgive themselves.

 

[bookgirl32]

**
Hi Book,
I agree with you and I support Project Rachel. But those people have repented and deserve mercy. I pray for the end of abortion and forgiveness to the parents who assisted in the murder of their child. I also pray every day for “Justice” for the aborted babies. I ask our God to bring down His just judgement on all non-repentant abortionist and supporters of Abortion! Just as He gives mercy to people who repent He owes justice to the murdered babies!

I pray especially againt the salvation of a Killer named George Tiller, He stated he personally preformed 60 thousand abortions. This animal even baptizes the babies before throwing their bodys into medical waste bags. dr-tiller.com** I petition God daily for His swift and just judgement on this son of Satan. He is a creation of God’s. He is not a son of God and deserves no mercy unless he repents. I pray that he doesn’t repent and spends eternity in the fire of hell in payment for the 60 thousand murders!

God Bless

I understand your anger, I feel it too! That’s how I feel, but I know that God still loves him, and wouldn’t want us to be praying against anyone’s salvation. So I try to go against what I feel in this particular situation. Just think, if he did repent, and did receive salvation, how many more babies wouldn’t be killed b/c he wasn’t doing it!

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I understand your anger, I feel it too! That’s how I feel, but I know that God still loves him, and wouldn’t want us to be praying against anyone’s salvation. So I try to go against what I feel in this particular situation. Just think, if he did repent, and did receive salvation, how many more babies wouldn’t be killed b/c he wasn’t doing it!

Let’s suppose someone died to protect an unborn child. Would that make them a saint? Or, do you have to perform miracles from beyond the grave to be a saint. (No sarcasm meant)

 

[Church_Militant]

Hmmm. Another catholic statement with no scripture backing. This pattern of Catholic truth and not Scripture truth is a common theme in these apologetics. Pray to the saints because it will please God more? Someone back this up with scripture, and not personal, or catholic opinion, because that is not truth.

Ryan

I did already…Communion of Saints and you can hear an MP3 Bible study on it at The Communion of Saints. It’s all there in the Word of God.

 

[Church_Militant]

Let’s suppose someone died to protect an unborn child. Would that make them a saint? Or, do you have to perform miracles from beyond the grave to be a saint. (No sarcasm meant)

It’s possible Chris, but that is God’s place to decide and not ours.

Canonization is actually a public acknowledgment of the documented holy life that a person led which serves as an example to us all. Miracles and gifts, though plentiful are just part of it.

Coincidentally, I’m reading a rather excellent book right now by Joan Carroll Cruz called Mysteries, Marvels, Miracles In the Lives of the Saints and if you really wanna get blown away by some impressive things in Christian lives, I recommend it to you.

 

[Church_Militant]

Is this to say that holy and saintly people become God’s personal answering service in heaven?

“Hello, you have reached Heaven Incorperated. This is saint so-and-so. Please leave your prayers after the beep, and God will get back with you as soon as He can.”

(joke)

 

[bre2455]

No, but they do pray to Mary and the bible says to pray to your father which is in heaven and never tells us to do hail mary’s. The Father in heavens name is Jesus. Look at ephesians 3:14-16 and also look at the book of acts and all the people in the bible was baptized in the name of the Jesus because there is no other name under heaven by which we will be saved acts 4:10-12. The real formula for salvation is in Acts 2:38. Which is the baptsim of Jesus because there is only one baptism Ephesian 4:5 and in the encyclepedia britannica and the catholic encyclepledia states that the catholic church changed baptism after the 2nd century. After the apostles were dead. Also look at the pope’s hat and do a web search for the babylonian god dagon. Then look at all the names for the high ups in the catholic church and the names are the same as the priests of dagon. dagon is the fish god that explains fish on friday. I would not look at the catholic church. I would look at apostlic penecostals.

 

[Stephen_C]

No, but they do pray to Mary and the bible says to pray to your father which is in heaven and never tells us to do hail mary’s. The Father in heavens name is Jesus. Look at ephesians 3:14-16 and also look at the book of acts and all the people in the bible was baptized in the name of the Jesus because there is no other name under heaven by which we will be saved acts 4:10-12. The real formula for salvation is in Acts 2:38. Which is the baptsim of Jesus because there is only one baptism Ephesian 4:5 and in the encyclepedia britannica and the catholic encyclepledia states that the catholic church changed baptism after the 2nd century. After the apostles were dead. Also look at the pope’s hat and do a web search for the babylonian god dagon. Then look at all the names for the high ups in the catholic church and the names are the same as the priests of dagon. dagon is the fish god that explains fish on friday. I would not look at the catholic church. I would look at apostlic penecostals.

You really need to stop reading those chick tracks. And instead of going to those anti-Catholic websites for what we as Catholic believe, go here
scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

Then if you have issue with any of this…

God Bless.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Let’s suppose someone died to protect an unborn child. Would that make them a saint? Or, do you have to perform miracles from beyond the grave to be a saint. (No sarcasm meant)

**
Hi Chris,
Chris you asked this same question before. If someone died God would decide their fate based on His judgement of them. How would we know? For the Church to “recognize” a person’s status as a “documented” Saint there is a process. You were sent that info before.
http:/Click on: Becoming a Saint

Stop playing games OK? Every one in Heaven are Saints, even undocumented residents!

HAPPY NEW YEAR

God Bless**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**
Hi Church,

I don’t normally laugh at blaspheme!

HAPPY NEW YEAR

God Bless**

 

[guanophore]

**
Hi Chris,
That is a waste of time and money buddy, Pay someone to stand out front! That is better then giving them something to laugh at! Do you actually think people who could work there would listen to gospel tracts? They just go to church on Sundays and listen!

God Bless**

I agree with you on this one. It would be much more useful to give information to potential victims of abortion about what actually happens. When they see photos that the so called “product of conception” is actually a human being, it has a much more effective outcome than a gospel tract. I also think that alternatives need to be put into the hands of people. Birthright tracts, and other resources that will help them have the baby is much better.

 

[guanophore]

**

I pray especially againt the salvation of a Killer named George Tiller, He stated he personally preformed 60 thousand abortions. This animal even baptizes the babies before throwing their bodys into medical waste bags. dr-tiller.com** I petition God daily for His swift and just judgement on this son of Satan. He is a creation of God’s. He is not a son of God and deserves no mercy unless he repents. I pray that he doesn’t repent and spends eternity in the fire of hell in payment for the 60 thousand murders!

God Bless

Such an approach is almost as bad for your soul than it is for his! How can you pray an honest Rosary? We pray that all will come to the knowledge of salvation “especially those who are in most need of thy mercy”. Who could be more in need than such a man?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**
Hi Bre,

I was impressed it sounded like you think you know what you are talking about. You don’t!**
No, but they do pray to Mary and the bible says to pray to your father which is in heaven and never tells us to do hail mary’s.
**
But it doesn’t say not to does it? Don’t put limits on God nor Jesus, you are the creature nor the creator!~**

The Father in heavens name is Jesus. Look at ephesians 3:14-16 and also look at the book of acts and all the people in the bible was baptized in the name of the Jesus because there is no other name under heaven by which we will be saved acts 4:10-12
**So your church is one of the weird ones that do not baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? If so, guess what? You aren’t even counterfeit christians. Jesus commanded baptism to be in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). **

The real formula for salvation is in Acts 2:38. Which is the baptsim of Jesus because there is only one baptism Ephesian 4:5 and in the encyclepedia britannica and the catholic encyclepledia states that the catholic church changed baptism after the 2nd century.

**There is no formula except what Jesus’ church decides is the formula. (Matt. 28:19) And the real church can change the procedures used… **

After the apostles were dead. Also look at the pope’s hat and do a web search for the babylonian god dagon.
**
Why He isn’t a Catholic? Want to be scared? Look at this: Click Here: Bible**

Then look at all the names for the high ups in the catholic church and the names are the same as the priests of dagon.
**
Well if we were from babylonian maybe we would care except we can only worship the one true God in his one true church!**

dagon is the fish god that explains fish on friday.

And why Jesus ate fish also?

I would not look at the catholic church. I would look at apostlic penecostals.**
I wonder what your religious preference is? Yea you guys are part of the corruption descended from Methodism and the Methodist Holiness Movement, Most of your different denominations are generally Arminian rather than Calvinist, believing that sanctification is synergistic between man and God. With the 61,000 false and counterfeit denominations pretending to be real christians it is hard to keep track! The devil has you all in the palm of his hands. You are in good hands with Satan!. May God have mercy on your souls!

BTW the dagon stuff is really new to me! Funny stuff!

HAPPY NEW YEAR

God Bless**

 

[guanophore]

No, but they do pray to Mary and the bible says to pray to your father which is in heaven and never tells us to do hail mary’s.

Welcome to CAF,bre!

Your statement seems to assume that every spiritual practice must be contained in the Bible. Do you believe that?

The Father in heavens name is Jesus. Look at ephesians 3:14-16 and also look at the book of acts and all the people in the bible was baptized in the name of the Jesus because there is no other name under heaven by which we will be saved acts 4:10-12. The real formula for salvation is in Acts 2:38. Which is the baptsim of Jesus because there is only one baptism Ephesian 4:5 and in the encyclepedia britannica and the catholic encyclepledia states that the catholic church changed baptism after the 2nd century.

Do you believe in the Trinity?

What about baptism do you think has changed?

After the apostles were dead. Also look at the pope’s hat and do a web search for the babylonian god dagon.

bre, it is good that you have come to CAF, because here you may be able to get misinformation like this corrected.

Then look at all the names for the high ups in the catholic church and the names are the same as the priests of dagon. dagon is the fish god that explains fish on friday. I would not look at the catholic church. I would look at apostlic penecostals.

bre, if you are not here to learn about CAF, then why are you here? If you are going to stay, I suggest you read the forum rules.