Proof for praying to saints

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BMSODM:
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Hi BM, 👋

See you are wiser than I! 😃 I will now add “Thy will be done, not mine” to my prayer for Justice for the babies! It is always implied because I know which one of us is God. 😃 But from now on I will say the words!

This year, during 40 days, while on the line, I actually helped save 3 more babies! The people expected hate, we gave them prayers and our sidewalk counselors gave them Hope! I, and friends help support three women centers with money, prayers and works.

It is a pleasure knowing you! 👍

God Bless**
 
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BMSODM:
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Good post Rinnie…
Right on, Rinnie and BMSODM. I thought of that passage when I was responding to Chris’s statement that he would “probably avoid” a woman who had an abortion and later repented.

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Hi PeterJ, 👋

“Be at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let every New Year find you a better man” - Benjamin Franklin

LUKE 17:3: “Take heed… If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent**, forgive him.”

The Key is “If he/she repents” we must forgive! No repentance ,no forgiveness need be given. Plus, you can only forgive tresspasses against “you” personally, unless you are a priest! And Bishops withhold that authority in abortion cases because the sin of abortion incurred automatic excommunication which only the Bishop can withdraw.

"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor. Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbor: I am the Lord. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him. "LEVITICUS 19:15-17

Gods words, requires that when the Church forgives people who sins, we accept them. So a woman that had a abortion and repented and was forgiven by the church must be accepted by us! If an abortionist repents we are also bound to accept him/her.
However, we have no right or duty to forgive any of them! As Barack Obama said “it is above my paygrade!”, whom by the way, needs our prayers! His is not an easy job!

God Bless
 
I would like to hear your reply also Chris. I would like to also hear a reply from RealCatholic as well…

*14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.*

Good post Rinnie…👍
It’s above my pay grade as well. Let the baby killers rot in hell.
 
Real Catholic. Trust me I understand how you feel. I am not even saying I disagree with what you are saying. But remember buddy this is not about how we see things, or how we feel. This is about church teaching. Remember when they killed Jesus what did he say Father forgive them they know not what they do. What is the Father felt as we do, we would be screwed!

Do I think this is a sin. No, I know it is a sin, All I am saying is I pray that God will open their eyes and stop them. All I am saying is I can’t stop them, do not have the power but God and the saints do, and maybe praying for them to have their eyes open will do me alot better, and teaching people to pray that they will get their eyes open is more power than hate is all.

But you are still my good buddy, and I really understand your anger, and agree with it too. There is no excuse for abortion, it is all about money, but trust me RC they will never enjoy that money or get peace. That is one thing about God, he may allow evil but he has his own way of dealing with the evil people do.

But prayer my good friend, prayer is still the answer not hate is all I am saying. Hate gets us no where. Prayer moves mountains.

My dad was a very forgiving person, never held grudges.:crossrc: Now my Moms family:hmmm: They had a saying they were not prejudice they hated everybody:rotfl:

My Dad would have confronted these People and in a very loud voice, said you people are wrong, look what you are doing, and you better get to confession and beg the Good Lord to have Mercy on your soul before its too late. And stop this right now. But he would never hate, he never hated anyone, he hated what they did, but he always prayed for mans mercy. He always said if you want God to have mercy on you, you must pray for the mercy of others. Oh this is not easy, and I can’t even say I am able to do it all the time, But I do try!😃
 
RealC said:
LUKE 17:3: “Take heed… If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.”

So why not pray that He does Repent? So then you can forgive him…😉

The Key is “If he/she repents” we must forgive! No repentance ,no forgiveness need be given. Plus, you can only forgive tresspasses against “you” personally, unless you are a priest!

I dont see how you dont take it personal when someone goes against your Fathers Kingdom. You have been made an heir to this Kingdom. We are one body in Christ so a murder against a member of your own body is against you, isn’t it?

Ever hear of the “the common priesthood.”?..:confused:
 
Hiyas rinnie,

Much TRUTHS, wisdom and humor 👍
Real Catholic. Trust me I understand how you feel. I am not even saying I disagree with what you are saying. But remember buddy this is not about how we see things, or how we feel. This is about church teaching. Remember when they killed Jesus what did he say Father forgive them they know not what they do. What is the Father felt as we do, we would be screwed!

Do I think this is a sin. No, I know it is a sin, All I am saying is I pray that God will open their eyes and stop them. All I am saying is I can’t stop them, do not have the power but God and the saints do, and maybe praying for them to have their eyes open will do me alot better, and teaching people to pray that they will get their eyes open is more power than hate is all.

But you are still my good buddy, and I really understand your anger, and agree with it too. There is no excuse for abortion, it is all about money, but trust me RC they will never enjoy that money or get peace. That is one thing about God, he may allow evil but he has his own way of dealing with the evil people do.

But prayer my good friend, prayer is still the answer not hate is all I am saying. Hate gets us no where. Prayer moves mountains.

My dad was a very forgiving person, never held grudges.:crossrc: Now my Moms family:hmmm: They had a saying they were not prejudice they hated everybody:rotfl:

My Dad would have confronted these People and in a very loud voice, said you people are wrong, look what you are doing, and you better get to confession and beg the Good Lord to have Mercy on your soul before its too late. And stop this right now. But he would never hate, he never hated anyone, he hated what they did, but he always prayed for mans mercy. He always said if you want God to have mercy on you, you must pray for the mercy of others. Oh this is not easy, and I can’t even say I am able to do it all the time, But I do try!😃
 
Real Catholic. Trust me I understand how you feel. I am not even saying I disagree with what you are saying.
How you can read the statement “He is a child of Satan’s I will pray for his eternal damnation” (and many others, but I don’t want to go back and read them a second time) and then respond with “I am not even saying I disagree with what you are saying” is something is don’t understand. Frankly, I don’t think it’s even some I want to understand. I’m giving up on this thread. I appreciated some of the statements made in the past by you and BMSODM (and I was willing to give Chris LaRock the ‘benefit of the doubt’, until he made the “Let the baby killers rot in hell” comment), but now I see that the thread is just too far gone.

Good bye and may God bless you all,
Peter.
 
Elizabeth,

Saints are ordinary people who have exemplified the life of Christ.
My understanding as a Catholic is that these are people very much like you or me who have lived their lives in God’s image through their selfless acts. To me, saints are the rock stars so to speak, that Catholics can look up to and admire and hopefully imitate in our daily lives. For myself, I find it comforting to know that Jesus has inspired many people and continues to inspire ordinary people to live as he lived. We need all the help we can get.

From another Elizabeth
 
it doesn’t particularly make me want to have a conversation with him. But that’s just me, I’m certainly not going to try to tell you who you should be having conversations with.
Hi Peter

I dont know if your still here but in the chance that you are I will leave this reply. I continue to conversate with RealC and others who I disagree with on certain issues because I dont want to be a hypocrite. Let me explain, I would be no better then them if I turned a blind eye to what I feel is a wrongful reply because of what they said. Just like they refuse to pray for the abortionist for what he has done.

I cant expect to teach them what i feel is the true teachings if I dont show them how to be towards others. Do one to others as you want done to you. If I was blind I would want to see. What good is my lamp under my bed?

I want them to pray for all mankind no matter what they have done but then I should refuse to talk with them because of what they said? Do you see the hypocrite in that?
 
Hi Peter

I dont know if your still here but in the chance that you are I will leave this reply. I continue to conversate with RealC and others who I disagree with on certain issues because I dont want to be a hypocrite. Let me explain, I would be no better then them if I turned a blind eye to what I feel is a wrongful reply because of what they said. Just like they refuse to pray for the abortionist for what he has done.

I cant expect to teach them what i feel is the true teachings if I dont show them how to be towards others. Do one to others as you want done to you. If I was blind I would want to see. What good is my lamp under my bed?

I want them to pray for all mankind no matter what they have done but then I should refuse to talk with them because of what they said? Do you see the hypocrite in that?
Hi BMSODM,

Two things: First, no I don’t see how it’s hypocritical to refuse to have a conversation with Realcatholicgk. Nor do I think it is “just like they refuse to pray for the abortionist for what he has done”. How is refusing to have a conversation with someone the same as refusing to pray for them?

Second, if you want to have a conversation with Realcatholicgk, then that’s your prerogative. That’s certainly not the reason I’m leaving this thread. (That was a decision I made this morning, after reading Chris’ post and Rinnie’s post.)

Blessings,
 
Hi BMSODM,
How is refusing to have a conversation with someone the same as refusing to pray for them?

I will try to explain it a little better. Your refusing to disguss a topic because of comments like this , “It’s above my pay grade as well. Let the baby killers rot in hell.” Now you know as well as I that the comment is an ignorant comment and anyone who says such a comment is being blinded by the deception of satan. The same way that the person who kills these children are being decieved by satan. Both parties are blind and both parties are being deceived. Yes, the outcome of there deception isnt the same but none the less its similarities cant be denied.

So refusing to pray for someone and refusing to conversate with someone are pretty much the same in this example. I cant expect them to change unless Im willing to as well. I must lead by example and be the light that hopefully gives them sight.

(That was a decision I made this morning, after reading Chris’ post and Rinnie’s post.)

Two wrongs dont make it right.

10 “Happy are those who are attacked on account of righteousness: for the kingdom of heaven will be theirs.”
There are many ways that we are attacked, some are more suttle then others…

Blessings,
 
:
How you can read the statement “He is a child of Satan’s I will pray for his eternal damnation” (and many others, but I don’t want to go back and read them a second time) and then respond with “I am not even saying I disagree with what you are saying” is something is don’t understand. Frankly, I don’t think it’s even some I want to understand. I’m giving up on this thread. I appreciated some of the statements made in the past by you and BMSODM (and I was willing to give Chris LaRock the ‘benefit of the doubt’, until he made the “Let the baby killers rot in hell” comment), but now I see that the thread is just too far gone.

Good bye and may God bless you all,
Peter.
Hey Peter J lay off my good buddy real catholic. Im picking up what my mans laying down here. He is saying that they are doing the devils work. And that is not acceptable.:mad: The mans got a point. He is human and hes mad. I understand his anger. I agree with his anger. But I also am trying to tell him his anger isn;t gonna get us no where. . What do you want me to do Peter J agree with an evil:eek: . I can’t do that. But I am telling my buddy his hate for what they are doing is not going to bring them back to God his prayers are. Hey I am on the bus with real catholic here!:grouphug: The man is again not wrong to not accept an evil. His heart is huge:aok: But he just needs to understand that we all need to pray more. Thats all. But Peter J are you going to tell me you do not feel the anger when you see babies getting killed that way? If it does not anger you what would?:eek: Its just we need to take our anger and make it possitive energy not negative energy is all!
 
Hey Peter J heres a good one for you. My brother was 39 and his wife of 2 weeks put him in a donnell house. In case you don’t know what that is its a place that they put you to death. I did everything to try to get people to believe me that she didn’t have him there to help him she was killing him. Well guess what. My brother my best buddy in the world is Dead.

I understand pain, and hate. I hated that girl for at least 3 years. And Im gonna admit I still do not feel love. But it was my wonderful Papa who before he died made me pray for her and let go of the anger and hate.

He said if you can’t forgive her can you at least pray for her. Well I did learn to do that. Well I have forgiven her the best I can. I wish her no bad luck, and I pray for her instead of hating her, But it aint easy. So yeah I understand hate, and anger and hurt. So you can judge me too. Because like my buddy good catholic I have a real hard time with evil. And I understand what hes saying it is not Gods work these people are doing it is the devils. Sometimes its cut and dry. Killing is never Gods work, Its always the devils.

But I am just trying to show him we can let go of hate, and pray instead. If I can do it anyone can!
 
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BMSODM:
You my love are smarter than you think:D Remember what the good book says schollars will never see what you can see.👍

But If I can make a comment what I think real Catholic is saying its hard for him to pray for someone that is going against Gods will. And doing the devils work. But keep up the good work bmsodm 👍 :extrahappy:
 
Hey I am on the bus with real catholic here!
Suit yourself. I’d rather be on the bus with Fr. Frank Pavone, Sarah Palin, etc.

I’ve never heard either of them say “I pray for abortionists to go to hell”. Have you?
 
He said if you can’t forgive her can you at least pray for her. Well I did learn to do that. Well I have forgiven her the best I can. I wish her no bad luck, and I pray for her instead of hating her, But it aint easy. So yeah I understand hate, and anger and hurt. So you can judge me too.
I understand what you are saying. As I mentioned before, I tried to give Chris LaRock the benefit of the doubt, but I thought that his recent “Let the baby killers rot in hell” comment crossed the line.
 
Suit yourself. I’d rather be on the bus with Fr. Frank Pavone, Sarah Palin, etc.

I’ve never heard either of them say “I pray for abortionist to go to hell”. Have you?
Where did I say that I dam them to hell. I said I understand RC’s anger. And as far as Sarah Palin No thanks. Now Father okay. He can ride on the bus.

Sorry for off the post but what does Sarah show you? Just curious?
 
First, verse 63 gives the answer to what Jesus was referring to.
Not even a little bit.

From a paper I wrote some time back:

Grasping at Straws: John 6:63

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken are spirit and they are life.” (John 6:63)

These words were spoken by Jesus shortly after delivering his teaching on the Eucharist, and some people claim that they indicate that Jesus was speaking figuratively when he commanded us to eat his body and drink his blood. However, this would be a misunderstanding of what Jesus meant when he said, “the flesh counts for nothing.”

First, notice that whenever Jesus referred to his own body and blood, he said “my flesh” or “the flesh of the Son of Man”. Here are the examples:

“This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” (John 6:51)

"Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.” (John 6:53-56)

At this point, the narrative explains that the disciples were on the verge of revolt over this teaching. Jesus tells them that they cannot understand this teaching with their natural minds. Here is the verse in context: “On hearing it, many of his disciples said, ‘This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?’ Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, ‘Does this offend you? What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.’” (John 6:60-63)

In John 6:63, Jesus uses the phrase “the flesh” instead of “my flesh” or “the flesh of the Son of Man” because he is not talking about his own body; he is referring to man’s natural, unenlightened rational intellect.

Jesus tells the grumbling Jews (who can’t understand how he would give them his flesh to eat) that they cannot grasp it with their natural minds because it is a mystery beyond the ability of “the flesh” to understand. This is the same manner of speaking used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2 & 3 when he is distinguishing between fleshly or carnal Christians and those who are discern the things of God with their spirits.

Second, it might be worth noting the obvious fact that Jesus cannot be saying that HIS own flesh “counts for nothing”; otherwise, his death upon the cross would be meaningless. Instead, we know that his own body, his flesh, was broken and pierced for our sake; no Christian would deny that. Therefore, since HIS flesh does count for something, he must have been referring to “flesh” other than his own in v. 63.

Thus, the one verse that many Protestants cling to as an argument against the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist does not mean what they falsely claim it means. Ironically, their “proof text” points out precisely why they cannot understand the Eucharist: they are using their flesh instead of their spirits to discern the things of God. Unfortunately, their flesh “counts for nothing”.
 
Also no offense but I sure don’t see them getting into heaven if they don’t repent and stop doing it though. At least not from what I have been taught. Isn’t that mortal sin?
 
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You my love are smarter than you think:D Remember what the good book says schollars will never see what you can see.👍

Your to kind my sister…😊

But If I can make a comment what I think real Catholic is saying its hard for him to pray for someone that is going against Gods will. And doing the devils work. But keep up the good work bmsodm 👍 :extrahappy:
I know why its hard for him, but I also know anger isnt a good virtue to have for any reason. It will almost always lead you to sin. A much better virtue which is the opposite of anger is meekness. Anger is extremly hard to control. Its much easier to feel compassion for the ones who are blind and certianly will benifit your soul. Anger isnt a fruit of the Spirit but Meekness is.
 
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