Proof for praying to saints

[BMSODM]

Also no offense but I sure don’t see them getting into heaven if they don’t repent and stop doing it though. At least not from what I have been taught. Isn’t that mortal sin?

Mortal sin is unto death. That doesnt mean you cant get into heaven if you die in mortal sin. It just means it cant be forgiven in this life, another words you will pay until every pennie of that debt is paid in full in purgatory. Its much better to pay in this lifetime and be purified through our sufferings while we are still here then waiting until purgatory…

Blessings***

 

[rinnie]

I know why its hard for him, but I also know anger isnt a good virtue to have for any reason. It will almost always lead you to sin. A much better virtue which is the opposite of anger is meekness. Anger is extremly hard to control. Its much easier to feel compassion for the ones who are blind and certianly will benifit your soul. Anger isnt a fruit of the Spirit but Meekness is.

Very well said. But we are all human and we all at one time or another let our anger get ahead of us. But God knows the heart and thats all that counts:thumbsup:

 

[rinnie]

:

Mortal sin is unto death. That doesnt mean you cant get into heaven if you die in mortal sin. It just means it cant be forgiven in this life, another words you will pay until every pennie of that debt is paid in full in purgatory. Its much better to pay in this lifetime and be purified through our sufferings while we are still here then waiting until purgatory…

Blessings***

 

[Peter_J]

Also no offense but I sure don’t see them getting into heaven if they don’t repent and stop doing it though. At least not from what I have been taught. Isn’t that mortal sin?

Gee, thanks for the Theology 101 lecture.

And as far as Sarah Palin No thanks. Now Father okay. He can ride on the bus.

I’m sure Fr. Pavone will be thrilled that you would condescend to let him on your “bus”.

 

[Peter_J]

That doesnt mean you cant get into heaven if you die in mortal sin.

Wrong.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Mortal sin is unto death. That doesnt mean you cant get into heaven if you die in mortal sin. Yes it does!

It just means it cant be forgiven in this life,

**
Yes it can be forgiven in this life! **

another words you will pay until every pennie of that debt is paid in full in purgatory.

**For venial sins and for committing Mortal sins that were forviven in confession. **

Its much better to pay in this lifetime and be purified through our sufferings while we are still here then waiting until purgatory…

BM, That can’t happen, Who taught you our religion?

Blessings***

**

Hi BM,

Boy, that is totally wrong! Where did you get ideas like those?
According to our beliefs in the RCC, and even some of the Protestant denominations, Mortal sin, is a sin that, unless confessed and absolved condemns a person’s soul to Hell after death. They are also often called grave sins. These sins are considered “mortal” because they constitute a end of a person’s link to God’s saving grace: the person’s soul becomes “dead”, not merely weakened.
The phrase is used in I John 5.16 -17: “If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one - to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal.” (NRSV)

In Roman Catholic moral theology, a mortal sin, as distinct from a venial sin, must meet all of the following conditions:

1). its subject must be a grave (or serious) matter;
2). it must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense (though nobody is deemed to be ignorant of moral laws, embedded into the consciences of every human being);
3). it must be committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a “personal decision” to commit the sin.

The CCC defines grave matter as ‘violations’ of what Jesus told to the man who asked him what the most important commandments were, namely, “do not kill”, “do not steal”, “do not commit adultery”, “do not bear false witness”, “do not defraud” and “honour your father and your mother”. All of these grave matters, however, are subject both to the conditions above and to mitigating circumstances (like mental illness, emotional or behavioral disturbance, insanity, retardation, young age, affective immaturity, or developmental disorders) of the individual situation prior to become mortal sins.

The CC itself does not provide a precise list of sins, subdivided into the mortal and venial categories. Rather, it is generally considered a matter for a well-formed conscience to decide after a comprehensive, prayer-filled, deliberate examination of conscience. These sins must be specifically confessed and named, giving details about the context of each sin: what sin, why, against what or whom, the number and type of occurrences, and any other factors that may exacerbate or lessen one’s responsibility and culpability. A penance must be preformed.
It also should not be said that certain of these sins, like purposely missing Mass on Sunday, is considered equal in gravity to more grave ones, like first-degree murder: Roman Catholic belief holds that grave matters that lead to mortal sins can vary somewhat in their seriousness, and thus canon law only criminalizes some of the more serious grave matters into mortal sins.

However, for any sins that lack the above mitigating factors and meet the three criteria listed, the “mortal” effect remains present. Confession forgives these sins in this life time. For all sin there is wages that must be paid. That will happen after death to purify us before entering Heaven. But a Mortal sin, unconfessed, will bring eternal damnation!

Rinnie. Question: Why did you agree with BM’s erroneous statements?

God Bless**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

RealC said:
LUKE 17:3: "Take heed… If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."

So why not pray that He does Repent? So then you can forgive him…
**

Hi BM,

Because I am not a Hypocrite. I can’t pray for Justice for the 60 Thousand babies and for their murderer. If he does ever repent I would embrace him,and then pray for mercy for him as a child of God’s! But as of right now he is a son of Stan and deserves no prayers from me! I think it is a safe bet Satan has a good grip on his soul! **

The Key is “If he/she repents” we must forgive! No repentance ,no forgiveness need be given. Plus, you can only forgive tresspasses against “you” personally, unless you are a priest!

I dont see how you dont take it personal when someone goes against your Fathers Kingdom. You have been made an heir to this Kingdom. We are one body in Christ so a murder against a member of your own body is against you, isn’t it?

** I say again! I am not a PRIEST. I can not forgive sin, I can forgive someone for doing harm to me but I can not forgive his sin against another person. In this case God Almighty.**’

Ever hear of the “the common priesthood.”?..

**Ever hear of the seven sacraments?

God Bless**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I understand what you are saying. As I mentioned before, I tried to give Chris LaRock the benefit of the doubt, but I thought that his recent “Let the baby killers rot in hell” comment crossed the line.

**

Hi PeterJ,

Your Much Holier Than Thou stuff crosses many many lines. You my friend are a hyprocritic. Plain and simple! Judge yourself and what you say, not others! You are in my prayers!

Rinne and BM Do me a favor and please copy and send this post to PeterJ in case he has my posts set to be ignored in his rightist indignation.

I think He should send a love letter to George, the Killer, Tiller. That might stop the abortions! **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Where did I say that I dam them to hell. I said I understand RC’s anger. And as far as Sarah Palin No thanks. Now Father okay. He can ride on the bus.

Sorry for off the post but what does Sarah show you? Just curious?

**

Hi rinne,

Actually I said I pray for Justice for the murdered babies and that I would not pray for Abortionist.
They are not Children of God who deserve and require my prayers. They are sons and daugthers of satan.The bible says not to pray for them so I don’t It is that simple. It has less to do with anger, I don’t “hate” them if I did they wouldn’t be a problem anymore trust me on that one! I hate no one. I hate their sins. I can’t and won’t pray for them! And that is premitted in our religion. My anger is pure and completely justified because at its root is hate for the murdering of innocent children.

“A man burdened with bloodshed will flee into a pit; let no one help him.” (Proverbs 28:17)

“Keep yourself far from a false matter; do not kill the innocent and righteous. For I will not justify the wicked.” (Exodus 23:7)

“Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to slay an innocent person.” (Deuteronomy 27:25)

Oh, Sarah is for contraception, probable PeterJ’s answer to abortion. She isn’t Pro-life she is Anti-death.**

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Suit yourself. I’d rather be on the bus with Fr. Frank Pavone, Sarah Palin, etc.

I’ve never heard either of them say “I pray for abortionists to go to hell”. Have you?

I’m sure you’ve heard me say it a few times.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I know why its hard for him, but I also know anger isnt a good virtue to have for any reason. It will almost always lead you to sin. A much better virtue which is the opposite of anger is meekness. Anger is extremly hard to control. Its much easier to feel compassion for the ones who are blind and certianly will benifit your soul. Anger isnt a fruit of the Spirit but Meekness is.

**Hi BM,

Good people, with ideas like yours ,is the reason there is abortion in the first place. Don’t you realize that?

We don’t have to sin when we are angry. We have Jesus as our example. When Jesus cleared the temple of the money changers and animal-sellers, He showed great emotion and anger (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; John 2:13-22). Jesus’ emotion was described as “zeal” for God’s house (John 2:17). His anger was pure and completely justified because at its root was concern for God’s holiness and worship. Because these were at stake, Jesus took fast and furious action.

Another time Jesus showed anger was in the synagogue of Capernaum. When the Pharisees refused to answer Jesus’ questions, “He . . . looked round about them with anger” (Mark 3:5). This verse goes on to give the reason for His anger: “the hardness of their hearts.”

Many times, we think of anger as a selfish, destructive emotion that we should eradicate from our lives altogether. However, the fact that Jesus did sometimes become angry indicates that anger itself, as an emotion, is “amoral.”
It is not a virtue, nor a vice! This is borne out elsewhere in the New Testament. Ephesians 4:26 instructs us to “be angry, and sin not,” and not to let the sun go down on our anger. The command is not to “avoid anger” (or suppress it or ignore it) but to deal with it properly, in a timely manner. We note the following facts about Jesus’ displays of anger:

1. His anger had the proper motivation. In other words, He was angry for the right reasons. Jesus’ anger did not arise from petty arguments or personal slights against Him. There was no selfishness involved.
2. His anger had the proper focus. He was not angry at God or at the “weaknesses” of others. His anger targeted sinful behavior and true injustice.
3. His anger had the proper supplement. Mark 3:5 says that His anger was attended by grief over the Pharisees’ lack of faith. Jesus’ anger stemmed from love for the Pharisees and concern for their spiritual condition. It had nothing to do with hatred or ill will.
4. His anger had the proper control. Jesus was never “out of control,” even in His wrath. The temple leaders did not like His cleansing of the temple (Luke 19:47), but He had done nothing amiss. He controlled His emotions; His emotions did not control Him.
5. His anger had the proper duration. He did not allow His anger to turn into bitterness; He did not hold grudges. He dealt with each situation properly, and He handled anger in good time.
6. His anger had the proper result. Jesus’ anger had the inevitable consequence of godly action. Jesus’ anger, as with all His emotions, was held in check by the Word of God; thus, Jesus’ response was always to accomplish God’s will.

I would agree that when we get angry, too often we have improper control or an improper focus. We fail in one or more of the above points. This is the “wrath of man,” which “worketh not the righteousness of God” (James 1:20). Jesus did not exhibit the “wrath of man” but the wrath of God. I attempt to imitate Jesus. He is in my soul and guides my every action. Regardless of what some modern day Pharisees may judge.

“What’s right is right, no matter how few people do it. What’s wrong is wrong, no matter how many people do it”.–Unknown**

 

[Chris_LaRock]

**

Hi rinne,

Actually I said I pray for Justice for the murdered babies and that I would not pray for Abortionist.
They are not Children of God who deserve and require my prayers. They are sons and daugthers of satan.The bible says not to pray for them so I don’t It is that simple. It has less to do with anger, I don’t “hate” them if I did they wouldn’t be a problem anymore trust me on that one! I hate no one. I hate their sins. I can’t and won’t pray for them! And that is premitted in our religion. My anger is pure and completely justified because at its root is hate for the murdering of innocent children.

“A man burdened with bloodshed will flee into a pit; let no one help him.” (Proverbs 28:17)

“Keep yourself far from a false matter; do not kill the innocent and righteous. For I will not justify the wicked.” (Exodus 23:7)

“Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to slay an innocent person.” (Deuteronomy 27:25)

Oh, Sarah is for contraception, probable PeterJ’s answer to abortion. She isn’t Pro-life she is Anti-death.**

You’re right on!

In the OT, people were actually dispatched to ‘dispatch’ a murderer. “The Avenger of Blood”, was his job title.

 

[guanophore]

Good people, with ideas like yours ,is the reason there is abortion in the first place. Don’t you realize that?

No, GK. We have abortion because Satan is a murderer from the beginning. Let’s not put the blame in the wrong place, shall we?

We don’t have to sin when we are angry. We have Jesus as our example.

Perhaps when you are able to achieve a more charitable attitude such as He demonstrated with His own killers then we will be able to accept you tutelage?

When Jesus cleared the temple of the money changers and animal-sellers, He showed great emotion and anger (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; John 2:13-22). Jesus’ emotion was described as “zeal” for God’s house (John 2:17). His anger was pure and completely justified because at its root was concern for God’s holiness and worship.

Yes, the problem is that, since we are fallen, it is much more difficult for us to be pure and completely justified in our anger. That is why He advised us to be without sin to cast the first stone?

Because these were at stake, Jesus took fast and furious action.

Another time Jesus showed anger was in the synagogue of Capernaum. When the Pharisees refused to answer Jesus’ questions, “He . . . looked round about them with anger” (Mark 3:5). This verse goes on to give the reason for His anger: “the hardness of their hearts.”

Many times, we think of anger as a selfish, destructive emotion that we should eradicate from our lives altogether. However, the fact that Jesus did sometimes become angry indicates that anger itself, as an emotion, is “amoral.”
It is not a virtue, nor a vice! This is borne out elsewhere in the New Testament. Ephesians 4:26 instructs us to “be angry, and sin not,” and not to let the sun go down on our anger. The command is not to “avoid anger” (or suppress it or ignore it) but to deal with it properly, in a timely manner. We note the following facts about Jesus’ displays of anger:

1. His anger had the proper motivation. In other words, He was angry for the right reasons. Jesus’ anger did not arise from petty arguments or personal slights against Him. There was no selfishness involved.
2. His anger had the proper focus. He was not angry at God or at the “weaknesses” of others. His anger targeted sinful behavior and true injustice.
3. His anger had the proper supplement. Mark 3:5 says that His anger was attended by grief over the Pharisees’ lack of faith. Jesus’ anger stemmed from love for the Pharisees and concern for their spiritual condition. It had nothing to do with hatred or ill will.
4. His anger had the proper control. Jesus was never “out of control,” even in His wrath. The temple leaders did not like His cleansing of the temple (Luke 19:47), but He had done nothing amiss. He controlled His emotions; His emotions did not control Him.
5. His anger had the proper duration. He did not allow His anger to turn into bitterness; He did not hold grudges. He dealt with each situation properly, and He handled anger in good time.
6. His anger had the proper result. Jesus’ anger had the inevitable consequence of godly action. Jesus’ anger, as with all His emotions, was held in check by the Word of God; thus, Jesus’ response was always to accomplish God’s will.

I would agree that when we get angry, too often we have improper control or an improper focus. We fail in one or more of the above points. This is the “wrath of man,” which “worketh not the righteousness of God” (James 1:20). Jesus did not exhibit the “wrath of man” but the wrath of God. I attempt to imitate Jesus.

Well, keep working at it. Perhaps God will be able to perfect himself in you the sooner, so that you do not disgrace His Holy name with hateful sounding rhetoric.

“What’s right is right, no matter how few people do it. What’s wrong is wrong, no matter how many people do it”.–Unknown

Amen to that!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Hey Peter J heres a good one for you. My brother was 39 and his wife of 2 weeks put him in a donnell house. In case you don’t know what that is its a place that they put you to death. I did everything to try to get people to believe me that she didn’t have him there to help him she was killing him. Well guess what. My brother my best buddy in the world is Dead.

**Hi rinnie, My heart goes out to you for your lost. But Donnell House is a residential hospice where terminally ill patients are cared for until they die. They don’t “kill” people. They won’t take anyone who isn’t terminally ill on the verge of dying already. **

I understand pain, and hate. I hated that girl for at least 3 years. And Im gonna admit I still do not feel love. But it was my wonderful Papa who before he died made me pray for her and let go of the anger and hate.

He said if you can’t forgive her can you at least pray for her. Well I did learn to do that. Well I have forgiven her the best I can. I wish her no bad luck, and I pray for her instead of hating her, But it aint easy. So yeah I understand hate, and anger and hurt. So you can judge me too. Because like my buddy good catholic I have a real hard time with evil. And I understand what hes saying it is not Gods work these people are doing it is the devils. Sometimes its cut and dry. Killing is never Gods work, Its always the devils.

**My wife and I lost 7 babies in the womb. We never had any children of our own. Every baby died regardless of medical procedures. The last and final was 5 months along when my wife spontaneously aborted him. I have been on the pro-life front lines for about 10 years now! If I were to “hate” anyone wouldn’t it be these mothers who can have children and elect to get rid of them? I don’t hate them at all. I pray for them and I know that someday they will regret their decisions. May God have mercy on their souls. The Abortionist are paid killers. May God damn them, if that is His will! I do not hate them, just their sins! I will not pray for them! It is my right! I personally believe God is a just God and He will provide Justice for the babies! I hope that if I am luckly enough to get to heaven God says “Well done my good and faithful servant!” Because I do what I can to please my Father! **

But I am just trying to show him we can let go of hate, and pray instead. If I can do it anyone can!

**
rinnie. Remember these words “Pain nourishes courage. You can’t be brave if you’ve only had wonderful things happen to you.”-- Mary Tyler Moore (She said that after her son Richard Meeker Jr. Died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound c.1980.)

Also, just for your information, If I had hate in my heart I would not, could not, go to Communion. I go weekly and more often if possible.

Now ~ Joke time: Sent to me by an Abbot friend of Mine.

An Athiest In The Woods
**
An atheist was walking through the woods. 'What majestic trees! 'What powerful rivers! 'What beautiful animals! He said to himself. As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charge towards him.

He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing in on him. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer. He tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw that the bear was right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw and raising his right paw to strike him.

At that instant the atheist cried out, ‘Oh my God!’

Time Stopped.

The bear froze.

The forest was silent.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky. ‘You deny my existence for all these years, teach others
I don’t exist and even credit creation to cosmic accident.’

'Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?

The atheist looked directly into the light, ‘You are right God, It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps you could make the BEAR a Christian’?

‘Very well,’ said the voice.

The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed
his head & spoke:

'Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord", Amen.

 

[guanophore]

May God have mercy on their souls. The Abortionist are paid killers. May God damn them, if that is His will! I do not hate them, just their sins! I will not pray for them! It is my right!

I think touting our righteous entitlement is the biggest risk.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

You’re right on!

In the OT, people were actually dispatched to ‘dispatch’ a murderer. “The Avenger of Blood”, was his job title.

**

Hi Chris,

I am nothing if not opinionated!

“To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men.” – Abraham Lincoln

“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”- Ronald Reagan

When I was in the Army, we were called “Special Ops”, they still are! SO have been looking for Ben Loden for years. Ben Loden is or was a creature of the CIA during the Afghanistan war and beyond in other words he was an agent now he is the bad guy! You have to love our government! God bless the USA!

The way some people love to find fault, you’d think there was a reward.

**

 

[East_and_West]

I have doubts that it is. I doubt Peter was the first Pope, or the majority of the NT would’ve been written by him - not St. Paul.

And of course, St. Paul rebukes Peter on an issue of morality in Galatians. The Pope is supposed to be infallible in issues of morality, and therefore Paul would have no right to rebuke the first Pope in an issue of morality. That would make him a heritic.

This is just silly. The Pope is infallible when it comes to his teachings on morality. Not when it comes ot behavior. He is a sinner just like you me. You’ll have to do better than this.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

**

Hi Chris,

I am nothing if not opinionated!

“To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men.” – Abraham Lincoln

“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”- Ronald Reagan

When I was in the Army, we were called “Special Ops”, they still are! SO have been looking for Ben Loden for years. Ben Loden is or was a creature of the CIA during the Afghanistan war and beyond in other words he was an agent now he is the bad guy! You have to love our government! God bless the USA!

The way some people love to find fault, you’d think there was a reward.

**

Psa 9:12 When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.

Psa 106:37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
Psa 106:38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
Psa 106:39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.
Psa 106:40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

And the most moving:

Pro 24:11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
Pro 24:12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I think touting our righteous entitlement is the biggest risk.

**
Hi Guan,

Hope you had a Happy New Year’s Eve.

'You did that trick them Protestant’s do, didn’t you? Twisting “righteous entitlement” out of my stating that It was my Right bacause I have the "free will"and scriptural support not to pray for anyone who commits murder of innocent babies!
That was is soo cute, do it again! I like magic tricks!

I think judging others is the biggest risk! One of us is wrong! I also have scriptural support for that! **

 

[Peter_J]

When I think of the damage done to the Pro-life movement by threads like this one, it turns my stomach.

This will be my last post on this thread. I even regret allowing myself to be drawn back into the conversation yesterday afternoon.

God help us.
Sincerely,