Proof of Heaven appears to be new age junk

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Just finished this best seller. Where do I start!!! So a non-practicing Methodist claims he went to the “core” and communed with God as a result of his NDE. He claims that many deep truths were revealed to him, yet because language is inadequate to describe, no real earth shattering truths were expressed in this book,nor was any real attempt made. He did mention that God’s love is unconditional (yawn), not to fear, and something outlandish theologically speaking (cant exactly recall now)… One mention of Jesus was made in the book. Of course, most Protestant NDE accounts have an absent Jesus. (I thought Jesus was supposed to judge the resented departed soul in the immediate judgement)… More tomorrow on this book
 
Well all I can say is, if God speaks to a person, however that happens, who are we to say he didn’t ?

Who are we to say that a person’s NDE, wasn’t real?

We can’t and we shouldn’t lose our faith over it.

Jim
 
blaskoman said:
Just finished this best seller. Where do I start!!! So a non-practicing Methodist claims he went to the “core” and communed with God as a result of his NDE. He claims that many deep truths were revealed to him, yet because language is inadequate to describe, no real earth shattering truths were expressed in this book,nor was any real attempt made. He did mention that God’s love is unconditional (yawn), not to fear, and something outlandish theologically speaking (cant exactly recall now)… One mention of Jesus was made in the book. Of course, most Protestant NDE accounts have an absent Jesus. (I thought Jesus was supposed to judge the resented departed soul in the immediate judgement)… More tomorrow on this book
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Can’t comment on the rest of the book since I haven’t read it but the experiences of Catholic mystics do echo aspects of what you wrote. The idea of God’s love being unconditional may sound a bit trite since its nothing new to our ears, but the actual experience of that love is nothing short of revelatory no matter what one thinks they know of it. And the absence of fear is likewise glaring because fear simply doesn’t exist in the presence of that kind of love, even while awe is yet inescapable. And the inability to adequately explain the ineffable is just par for the course.

I’d be interested in hearing more on it-I’m not sure why Protestant NDEs would tend to be absent Jesus, as Protestants seem to talk an awful lot about Him on this side of the great divide. And I can’t help but want to hear about this outlandish love he mentions.
 
Is he converting to Catholicism? If not, then I must doubt that God did in fact reveal anything to him, if he left that out. It’s simple reason.
 
devoutchristian said:
Is he converting to Catholicism? If not, then I must doubt that God did in fact reveal anything to him, if he left that out. It’s simple reason.
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God could have him on the way to conversion-at some future point-we can’t know how He may work in these matters.
 
Religious conversion is a very major life step for anybody, so we shouldn’t discount someone’s spiritual experience just because they don’t wake up wishing to join RCIA. They might not even know what that is, for starters.

ICXC NIKA
 
fhansen said:
God could have him on the way to conversion-at some future point-we can’t know how He may work in these matters.
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If God had revealed things o him that are not intended for the majority of Christians to know, then why wouldn’t he reveal to him that which is necessary for salvation?
 
GEddie said:
Religious conversion is a very major life step for anybody, so we shouldn’t discount someone’s spiritual experience just because they don’t wake up wishing to join RCIA. They might not even know what that is, for starters.

ICXC NIKA
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So they know a bunch of supernatural truths that can’t even be expressed in words, but they don’t know what is necessary for salvation. Pardon me if I :rolleyes:.
 
devoutchristian said:
So they know a bunch of supernatural truths that can’t even be expressed in words, but they don’t know what is necessary for salvation. Pardon me if I :rolleyes:.
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What God may have revealed to them about their salvation is what they learn.

Not everyone needs to be Catholic in order to be saved. There are many impediments for people to convert to Catholicism, which may be justified.

We pray that they find Jesus and come into the Church, but who knows why Jesus doesn’t reveal himself to them and lead them into the Church?

Either way, we don’t know what, how or if God revealed to them, but the fruits they reveal in how they live, will tell whether their experience was that of God or delusion.

Jim
 
I have read probably around 100 accounts of NDE, and the light of love at the end of the tunnel is usually perceived as Jesus by all Christians as well as quite a few agnostics.
As for some things in Heaven being inexplicable in this world, I agree with the books author.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
What God may have revealed to them about their salvation is what they learn.

Not everyone needs to be Catholic in order to be saved. There are many impediments for people to convert to Catholicism, which may be justified.

We pray that they find Jesus and come into the Church, but who knows why Jesus doesn’t reveal himself to them and lead them into the Church?

Either way, we don’t know what, how or if God revealed to them, but the fruits they reveal in how they live, will tell whether their experience was that of God or delusion.

Jim
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The Catholic faith is necessary for salvation. This is de fide.
 
blaskoman said:
Just finished this best seller. Where do I start!!! So a non-practicing Methodist claims he went to the “core” and communed with God as a result of his NDE. He claims that many deep truths were revealed to him, yet because language is inadequate to describe, no real earth shattering truths were expressed in this book,nor was any real attempt made. He did mention that God’s love is unconditional (yawn), not to fear, and something outlandish theologically speaking (cant exactly recall now)… One mention of Jesus was made in the book. Of course, most Protestant NDE accounts have an absent Jesus. (I thought Jesus was supposed to judge the resented departed soul in the immediate judgement)… More tomorrow on this book
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IMO The Trinity is three in one. Lord is sufficient to describe them. This may explain why Jesus is not singled out for mention in some cases. Another concerning conversion. The Lord leaves room for faith and free will.
 
devoutchristian said:
If God had revealed things o him that are not intended for the majority of Christians to know, then why wouldn’t he reveal to him that which is necessary for salvation?
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Ultimately for his conversion? I don’t know that these things aren’t for all Christians to know-God often grants such experiences to individual members for the good of the whole body. And I don’t know that He wouldn’t grant them to non-Catholics, although mysticism, in the Catholic tradition of spiritual experiences that I truly appreciate, does seem to be primarily a Catholic occurrence from my understanding.

But without knowing the full extent of the person’s experiences, I do know of a cradle Catholic who received experiences similar in nature to what you mentioned so far (although fully conscious, not via an NDE), at one point while he was distanced from the CC for many, many years, had no intention of returning, and yet was to find himself led back to the Church some 5-6 years later, where incidentally, later yet, he was excited to find kindred spirits through the writings of some of the earlier Catholic mystics.
 
devoutchristian said:
The Catholic faith is necessary for salvation. This is de fide.
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Baptism is necessary for salvation.
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
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And you need to read this page:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
 
fhansen said:
Ultimately for his conversion? I don’t know that these things aren’t for all Christians to know-God often grants such experiences to individual members for the good of the whole body. And I don’t know that He wouldn’t grant them to non-Catholics, although mysticism, in the Catholic tradition of spiritual experiences that I truly appreciate, does seem to be primarily a Catholic occurrence from my understanding.
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He claims to have been given knowledge of such high-minded supernatural truths that he cannot even express them in words, basic reason tells us that if this were the case, God wouldn’t have omitted those truths which are essential for salvation.
 
Not really. Heaven is for Real is about a little Protestant boy who went to Heaven for a short time and met Jesus. 🙂
And who says Protestants can’t go to Heaven? They still believe Jesus is their Lord and Savior and they give themselves fully to God! 😉
 
devoutchristian said:
The Catholic faith is necessary for salvation. This is de fide.
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The Church teaches that there can be salvation to those who are not Catholic, through no fault of their own.

For instance, a little boy who was abused by a priest will often grow up hating the Catholic Church, while yet still having a relationship with Jesus.

Same would go for Jews who have had bad experiences with Catholics and became wary of the religion.

It is God alone who judges.

Jim
 
CrispSnowflake said:
Not really. Heaven is for Real is about a little Protestant boy who went to Heaven for a short time and met Jesus. 🙂
And who says Protestants can’t go to Heaven? They still believe Jesus is their Lord and Savior and they give themselves fully to God! 😉
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The same problem exists with that book, God didn’t reveal the Catholic faith to him.
 
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