Proof that Christ's Church was not Sola Scriptura

[alwayswill]

It is the Word of God, yes. But that doesn’t make it the highest authority.

Jesus is the highest authority, and His Word comes to us through 2 channels: the written and the oral.

We cannot deny the oral word of God without necessarily denying the written word of God.

it was already worked out in this thread and agreed upon by Catholics that writings breathed out by God have the same authority has God speaking from His throne : and there is no authority higher than that.

do we need to revisit that key point?

 

[PRmerger]

it was already worked out in this thread and agreed upon by Catholics that writings breathed out by God have the same authority has God speaking from His throne : and there is no authority higher than that.

do we need to revisit that key point?

Yes, we do.

It’s the Word of God, but it’s not the ONLY Word of God.

So Tradition, also, has the “highest” authority.

 

[PRmerger]

it was already worked out in this thread and agreed upon by Catholics that writings breathed out by God have the same authority has God speaking from His throne : and there is no authority higher than that.

do we need to revisit that key point?

Now, here’s a point I’d like to revisit: do you agree that you shouldn’t shop for a church that conforms to your own personal views, but rather you should conform your views to the church?

Yes?

 

[JimmyDFG]

Yes, Jesus said the Church has the same authority as He.

Not a hard concept to grasp. It is a hard saying for sola scripturaists.

I’ll like to add that Jesus told Peter to “Feed my sheep”

 

[alwayswill]

Now, here’s a point I’d like to revisit: do you agree that you shouldn’t shop for a church that conforms to your own personal views, but rather you should conform your views to the church?

Yes?

the point is we should test all thing in Scripture: and ANY authority (Paul or an angel) that is violation and Scripture needs to be addressed…

There is no excuse for blindly following leaders : We are commanded to know God’s word

I would be out of these Churches so fast it would make Lot’s exit out of Sodom look like a stroll in the park

(1) Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-7) - the church that had forsaken its first love (2:4).
(3) Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-17) - the church that needed to repent (2:16).
(4) Thyatira (Revelation 2:18-29) - the church that had a false prophetess (2:20).
(5) Sardis (Revelation 3:1-6) - the church that had fallen asleep (3:2).
(7) Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22) - the church with the lukewarm faith (3:16).

 

[JimmyDFG]

it was already worked out in this thread and agreed upon by Catholics that writings breathed out by God have the same authority has God speaking from His throne : and there is no authority higher than that.

God and Jesus are not mere words

 

[alwayswill]

Yes, we do.

It’s the Word of God, but it’s not the ONLY Word of God.

So Tradition, also, has the “highest” authority.

ok : here is the “Sola Scripturist” view

there is no authority higher than God
writings breathed out by God have the same authority as God
therefore there is no authority higher than writings breathed out by God.

the authority of God is higher than the authority of the Catholic Church.
because writings breathed out by God have the same authority as God
therefore writings breathed out by God have a higher authority than the Catholic church

I know you don’t agree with “Sola Scripturist” view : but there it is

Every line of Scripture is God breathed:
convince me everything the Catholic Church proclaims is

 

[alwayswill]

God and Jesus are not mere words

100% sure I never said they were

 

[PRmerger]

the point is we should test all thing in Scripture:

Well, what Scripture says is that Barnabas, the Bereans, et al tested all things with the Old Testament.

Is that what you want to propose we’re supposed to do?

 

[alwayswill]

Well, what Scripture says is that Barnabas, the Bereans, et al tested all things with the Old Testament.

Is that what you want to propose we’re supposed to do?

ALL God breathed writings are Scripture the very moment they were written, regardless of when they were written
do you agree with that?

 

[cominghome1966]

the point is we should test all thing in Scripture: and ANY authority (Paul or an angel) that is violation and Scripture needs to be addressed…

There is no excuse for blindly following leaders : We are commanded to know God’s word

So then what do you make of Acts 15, when the bishops at the Council of Jerusalem changed the doctrine and practice regarding circumcision? There was no scriptural basis for what they did.

Would you have supported them in this decision? If so, on what basis?

I would be out of these Churches so fast it would make Lot’s exit out of Sodom look like a stroll in the park

(1) Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-7) - the church that had forsaken its first love (2:4).
(3) Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-17) - the church that needed to repent (2:16).
(4) Thyatira (Revelation 2:18-29) - the church that had a false prophetess (2:20).
(5) Sardis (Revelation 3:1-6) - the church that had fallen asleep (3:2).
(7) Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22) - the church with the lukewarm faith (3:16).

Christ never asked the people to leave and there is zero indication that he wanted them to leave.

He commanded them to repent. Repenting was the correct course of action, not leaving.

 

[Duane1966]

If a writing breathed out by God revealed a statement of fact that had never been declared before: is it possible for God to disagree with that statement?

I say no.

If the Catholic Church revealed a statement of fact that had never been declared before: is it possible for God to disagree with that statement??

What do you say?

Purple, monkey, scissors.

 

[Duane1966]

It is the Word of God, yes. But that doesn’t make it the highest authority.

Jesus is the highest authority, and His Word comes to us through 2 channels: the written and the oral.

We cannot deny the oral word of God without necessarily denying the written word of God.

They are writings breathed out by God, to His Church, through His Church, and authenticated by His Church. The Protestant historian Schaaf admitted that there were hundreds of writings claiming to be God-breathed Scripture.

He who hears the Church, hears Jesus speaking. He who rejects the Church, rejects Jesus speaking. So simple one in kindergarten could understand.

 

[Duane1966]

it was already worked out in this thread and agreed upon by Catholics that writings breathed out by God have the same authority has God speaking from His throne : and there is no authority higher than that.

do we need to revisit that key point?

Except Catholics also said on this thread that when the Church speaks, it is Jesus speaking. And Jesus said the same thing:

Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.

And there is no higher authority than that.

Since the New Testament was written by the Apostles, and we all agree that the Apostles were part of Christ’s Churches, isn’t it basic reasoning to say that the Church wrote the Scriptures?

So why would the Church say something that she wrote is a higher authority?

 

[alwayswill]

…

Christ never asked the people to leave and there is zero indication that he wanted them to leave.

He commanded them to repent. Repenting was the correct course of action, not leaving.

and if they did not repent?

 

[alwayswill]

So then what do you make of Acts 15, when the bishops at the Council of Jerusalem changed the doctrine and practice regarding circumcision? There was no scriptural basis for what they did.

Would you have supported them in this decision? If so, on what basis?

…

the Judaizers view was NOT backed by Scripture
The Council’s view agreed with Scripture

v 15 reads
“And with this the words of the prophets agree,”"
The words of Prophets (plural more than one prophet) are found in the Hebrew Scriptures

v16 they quoted Scripture; Amos 9 referencing God’s plans for the Gentiles

v17 Therefore (referencing what just came before: Scripture) a decision is made not to trouble with any obstacle to God’s revealed plan for the Gentiles found in Scripture

 

[alwayswill]

If a writing breathed out by God revealed a statement of fact that had never been declared before: is it possible for God to disagree with that statement?

I say no.

If the Catholic Church revealed a statement of fact that had never been declared before: is it possible for God to disagree with that statement??

What do you say?

Purple, monkey, scissors.

Your church, the Catholic Church declares that this statement is an infallible truth.

"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff”

It was never a requirement for anyone’s salivation, ever, to be subject to the Roman Pontiiff.

 

[Duane1966]

Your church, the Catholic Church declares that this statement is an infallible truth.

"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff”

It was never a requirement for anyone’s salivation, ever, to be subject to the Roman Pontiiff.

If you consider yourself one of Christ’s sheep, than you are subject to the Roman pontiff, whether you realize it or not. The Greek word for tend, in feed my sheep…, can also be interpreted as rule. Either interpretation works. If you are not eating what the successor of Peter feeds, then you are rejecting him, and then you are rejecting the one who sent him (Jesus). So yes, for your salvation, you better hope you are subject to him, even if you don’t realize it.

Every sheep herder will tell you when you tend sheep, you are in command.

 

[alwayswill]

If you consider yourself one of Christ’s sheep, than you are subject to the Roman pontiff, whether you realize it or not. The Greek word for feed, in feed my sheep, can also be interpreted as rule. Either interpretation works. If you are not eating what the successor of Peter feeds, then you are rejecting him, and then you are rejecting the one who sent him (Jesus). So yes, for your salvation, you better hope you are subject to him, even if you don’t realize it.

I realize more than you think
I am not rejecting Jesus
that is why I am rejecting the Roman Pontiff

and you are mistaken about the Greek:
biblehub.com/greek/1006.htm

 

[Duane1966]

I realize more than you think
I am not rejecting Jesus
that is why I am rejecting the Roman Pontiff

And I realize, you think you realize. But I KNOW, for the sake of your soul, if you die rejecting the office of the successor of Peter, you died rejecting Jesus.