Prop 8 found to be unconstitutional...struck down!

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Brooklyn said:
And we Christians are also told whom we can and cannot marry. The “Christian” churches that marry homosexuals are not Christian churches.
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So why should you Christians get to dictate whom we Pagans can and cannot marry. An why complain if it is done to you? (as you wrongly think it will).
 
Suudy said:
I meant, would liberals be satisfied were there to be a contitutional amendment to outlaw Jim Crow laws?
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In theory, I believe so, but it’s moot. Jim Crow laws were all abolished for good without resort to a Constitutional amendment.
 
Brooklyn said:
And we Christians are also told whom we can and cannot marry. The “Christian” churches that marry homosexuals are not Christian churches.
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If we are being lectured about that, now it is you who are presuming to lecture us what churches are and aren’t Christian. 🤷
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
In theory, I believe so, but it’s moot. Jim Crow laws were all abolished for good without resort to a Constitutional amendment.
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It’s moot only in a practical sense. In the sense that you think conservative wouldn’t be satisfied with a Constitutional amendment, it does matter.

In theory, I think conservatives would be as satisfied with a Constitutional amendment barring gay “marriage” as liberals would be with one that explicitly protected it.
 
Marriage isn’t a “right”. It’s a privilege. If it was a right, then celibacy would be illegal, because it violates my rights even if it is my own choice. You know what else is a right? life. And when someone chooses to remove that right through suicide, the government steps in and prevents it (obviously for the better, but still). How is it that no one recognizes these double standards?

Also, if they appointed a heterosexual judge on the case, and he upheld it, then people would be screaming bias. However, since the judge was an open homosexual, apparently there is no possibility for any bias…
 
irishpatrick said:
Please understand, and give this much thought, if we reach equality in result for everyone, than we lose most of our cherished liberties as well. We cannot have equality and liberty, they simply do not go hand-in-hand…it is impossible.

Before you respond…THINK.

If everyone must be treated equally, than that will include in all things and in all ways. genders will be declared utterly the same. Religions will have to comply with all equality laws or they will be legally forced to shutter their doors. Religions will go underground like in the days of the catacombs.

You must choose: liberty or equality–you cannot have both. Choose wisely.
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As a female, I greatly want equality. You can have both, I do not understand where you are coming up with the idea that you can’t, or the idea that this will somehow end religion… We will not lose anything by acknowledging that EVERYONE is equal (are we not all equal in the eyes of God?).
 
Suudy said:
In theory, I think conservatives would be as satisfied with a Constitutional amendment barring gay “marriage” as liberals would be with one that explicitly protected it.
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I understand - but, practically speaking, I’d say “many conservatives” and “many liberals.” Neither camp has all its followers marching in lockstep.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
If we are being lectured about that, now it is you who are presuming to lecture us what churches are and aren’t Christian. 🤷
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I am not making that decision. To be Christian, you must abide by Christian beliefs. Approving of homosexuality is against Christian beliefs, therefore, they have disqualified themselves.
 
Actually, I think the Catholic Church would agree that marriage, in the absence of any impediments, IS a fundamental right. But it defines marriage as it has been understood for the last 10,000 years, as a covenant between a man and a woman. Same sex marriage is no marriage at all.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
So why should you Christians get to dictate whom we Pagans can and cannot marry. An why complain if it is done to you? (as you wrongly think it will).
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As Christians, we believe that marriage was instituted by God to picture the relationship between God and the Church. It is, therefore, a sacred institution and not one on which we can enter into without great thought and reflection and according to the teachings of the Church. Getting married is not like going into business. We believe it is a holy and sacred institution, and one that cannot be broken.

And I’m not complaining. I thank God for the beautiful institution of marriage, and I wouldn’t do a thing to change it.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
You over react. This hasn’t happened except in two cases where the money was payed up front with full knowledge of the couples being same sex and then backed out without giving a refund. The courts ruled that as the church knew the people where homosexual had taken and spent the money they must now honor the agreement.

Mean time we Pagans are being told who we MAY and MAY NOT marry. Along with Christian Churches that have no problem marrying gays.
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Yes evil provides a formattable opponent these days. It would be foolish to debate that issue. Yet I see a wakening of the Catholic/Christian Faiths through the dogma of the faithfull.

Many generations have been lost to complacent times. And we reap what we sow today. In the end logic and the better thinking of life will prevail. As evil grows so does the understanding of the effort needed to suppress it. Make no mistake about that. Many have retired to the seclusion of there own bubble in life. The power of the US has allowed this to happen. Through idle minds skeptism and error in thinking was able to grow. I won’t give up the ship just yet. I believe your about to see a sleeping giant awake.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
I understand - but, practically speaking, I’d say “many conservatives” and “many liberals.” Neither camp has all its followers marching in lockstep.
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I don't have the book in front of me, but Peter Kreeft's Socratic Logic: A Logic Text Using Socratic Method, Platonic Questions, and Aristoleian Principles (highly recommended, see [here](http://www.amazon.com/Socratic-Logic-Questions-Aristotelian-Principles/dp/158731)) talks about this point. In common language, it is usually understood that in many cases people mean "many" or "some", as opposed to "all" or "none". People usually say "all" or "none" if they mean that sense, and leave out the qualifier when they mean "many" or "some." So we don't usually need to be so pedantic.
But in this case, you are right. I should have said “many” to differentiate it from “some”. I do agree that it is “many conservatives” and “many liberals” rather than “some conservative” and “some liberals”. But I certainly didn’t mean “all” or “none”.
</off topic>
 
Maybe I’m just not getting this whole American legal thing, but what is the precedent for using the US Federal Constitution to overrule a State Constitution, and is that constitutional at all in the first place?

Man, this is infuriating. :mad:
 
Brooklyn said:
As Christians, we believe that marriage was instituted by God to picture the relationship between God and the Church. It is, therefore, a sacred institution and not one on which we can enter into without great thought and reflection and according to the teachings of the Church. Getting married is not like going into business. We believe it is a holy and sacred institution, and one that cannot be broken.

And I’m not complaining. I thank God for the beautiful institution of marriage, and I wouldn’t do a thing to change it.
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So this is why you think your faith can dictate what mine can and cannot do?
GaryTaylor said:
I won’t give up the ship just yet. I believe your about to see a sleeping giant awake.
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I have heard this before, and yes many Pagans fear what this sleeping giant might do to us. After all some nations laws banning our Pagan faith where lifted barely a century ago.
Luigi_Daniele said:
I’m shocked. OK, not so much.
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Liberal Pagan is Liberaly Pagan! 👍
 
yes! awesome victory for gay rights! everyone has a right to marriage!

next up, pedophiles! yes, why should we hate them? they are born that way that they “love” children. they are people too, they have rights too, we should fight for their rights. vote for their right to marry 9-year olds!

sic
 
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