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Adam1986
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OK, of course I can explain it to you in a respectful manner.
Marriage offers us the chance to be treated as an EQUAL HUMAN BEING. You are denying us the chance to have every opportunity that everyone else in the world has. You are saying that we do not the deserve FULLY to be treated as humans because you disagree with our sex lives.
Marriage may just be a word; but how would you feel if you only were able to have a Civil Union because you were Catholic, or because of whatever your race is? You would be outrage and you would want the right to call it a marriage right? EVEN IF other people did not see it as one, correct?
Now I am NOT saying that you are out to “get us”.
What I am saying is that if you have no problem with Jewish people getting a legal marriage or Agnostic people getting a legal marriage or Atheists getting a legal marriage, and even satanists getting a legal marriage. So you should not have a problem with members of the LGBT community getting a legal marriage. Since none of those marriages are valid according to the Catholic Church, then this should be taken the same way. Basically live and let us live with dignity and full human rights.
It is more than that because plain and simple this is a more than a marriage issue, it is even more than a rights issue, it is a DIGNITY issue. We deserve to be seen as FULL HUMAN BEINGS.
I can’t respond back to this because I’m not exactly sure what you are saying here. Please clarify it for me. What position are you referring to? Which ruling? Thank you.
Are you saying that you respect the fact that even though I am gay and living a gay lifestlye, that I am also Catholic and have not left the Church? If that’s what you mean, then thank you.
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crazzeto
Guest
I can’t tell you how upset I am, it’s clear based upon the legal opinion of the Judge that the legalities of the matter were not even considered. Rather, the only thing that was considerd was legalizing gay marriage. There is absolutly no basis for this astounding ruling, at least this Judge had enough decency to censure his own ruling pending appeal.
I honeslty hope, this Judge is disbarred. What he has done makes a mochary of the legal system.
I honeslty hope, this Judge is disbarred. What he has done makes a mochary of the legal system.
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Adam1986
Guest
I don’t want to start responding to everything that I personally disagree with, but this particular argument does truly INFURIATE me.
Let’s see when do you get to marry your sister? NEVER. It’s incest and it will NEVER be legal.
When do you get to marry your father? NEVER. It’s incest and it will NEVER be legal.
When do you get to marry a 12 year old boy? NEVER. That is pediophilia and it will NEVER be legal.
It INFURIATES me to no end to see someone try and equate the LOVE between two men or two women to something as disgusting, sick, and EVIL as sex with a child.
The incest argument is just not well thought out. No offense, but it doesn’t make any sense. Nobody’s going to legalize incest. I mean, really.
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crazzeto
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On what basis do you make these claims sir?I don’t want to start responding to everything that I personally disagree with, but this particular argument does truly INFURIATE me.
Let’s see when do you get to marry your sister? NEVER. It’s incest and it will NEVER be legal.
When do you get to marry your father? NEVER. It’s incest and it will NEVER be legal.
When do you get to marry a 12 year old boy? NEVER. That is pediophilia and it will NEVER be legal.
It INFURIATES me to no end to see someone try and equate the LOVE between two men or two women to something as disgusting, sick, and EVIL as sex with a child.
The incest argument is just not well thought out. No offense, but it doesn’t make any sense. Nobody’s going to legalize incest. I mean, really.
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blacktiger057
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This is a major victory for everyone who supports equal rights. I am so incredibly happy right now. We have won a major battle here.
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Adam1986
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No, see you’re missing the HUGE point here. Children under the age of consent cannot enter into the legal contract that is marriage. That won’t change.
Also, saying that something that disgusting, sickening, and EVIL would ever be accepted BECAUSE SAME SEX MARRIAGE WAS is just and I mean this nicely, idiotic. I am not saying that you are, just that argument is idiotic.
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blacktiger057
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It’s called being rational. But I guess if you could teach rational thinking to religious people, there would be no religious people.
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Holly3278
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This is so incredibly disgusting! Do the voters have absolutely no say in anything in California anymore???
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Thoma25
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Incest and pedophilia will hopefully never be legal, because they’re morally evil and intrinsically disordered. But so is homosexuality, and when you begin to confer upon it your “blessings,” so to speak, and make it socially acceptable and validate such an abominable union as marriage, then you open the door for these other evils, as well. If we’re legalizing one form of disorder, why not the others? Such is the slippery slope.
The Catholic Church rightly declares homosexuality to be sinful, and its “unions” are not marriages in the least. God’s law trumps man’s law; it doesn’t matter what a homosexual judge in a state gone insane says: homosexuals will never be truly married in the eyes of God. They will be living in mortal sin, however; and those Catholics who uphold it knowing what the Church teaches are excommunicated for their support of heresy.
The Catholic Church rightly declares homosexuality to be sinful, and its “unions” are not marriages in the least. God’s law trumps man’s law; it doesn’t matter what a homosexual judge in a state gone insane says: homosexuals will never be truly married in the eyes of God. They will be living in mortal sin, however; and those Catholics who uphold it knowing what the Church teaches are excommunicated for their support of heresy.
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Adam1986
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Why do you hope he is disbarred? What is your argument for this feeling? I’m sure you would not be saying this judge was unethical if he was Catholic and based his decision on his own Catholic faith, rather than looking objectively at this case.
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
Whoa! You actually read the entire 138 page opinion of the court?
I better hurry up then in order to best understand how it’s so “clear” that “legalities of the matter were not even considered”.
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Adam1986
Guest
Common sense.
You can’t say that JUST BECAUSE same sex marriage may become a true reality that the world will become EVIL with those things.
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Adam1986
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I like you, lol.This is a major victory for everyone who supports equal rights. I am so incredibly happy right now. We have won a major battle here.
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blacktiger057
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haha I like you as wellI like you, lol.
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Dale_M
Guest
Oh, that seems reasonable.Well, sure, but that would probably only be ridiculous to someone who thinks there is no difference between genders.
Besides, that is exactly the point I was making. Anytime someone makes an anti-homosexual-marriage comment, people claim they are offended, as if that discounts any point the person made. If that is the case, I say it is a two-way street. Those who are anti-homosexual-marriage can completely discount the point the pro-homosexual-marriage person is making.
But, for the record, I am not offended by anti-homosexual marriage comments. If I were, I wouldn’t still be here.
I think some other long-time CAF members could say the same thing.
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JimG
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Just to clarify: A marriage between agnostics, or between atheists, or even between Satanists, (assuming they are not Catholic) is recognized as valid by the Catholic Church.What I am saying is that if you have no problem with Jewish people getting a legal marriage or Agnostic people getting a legal marriage or Atheists getting a legal marriage, and even satanists getting a legal marriage. So you should not have a problem with members of the LGBT community getting a legal marriage. Since none of those marriages are valid according to the Catholic Church, then this should be taken the same way. Basically live and let us live with dignity and full human rights.
A divorced atheist or agnostic or satanist, who sought to marry someone else in the Catholic Church, would need to have the prior marriage considered by a marriage tribunal to determine whether in fact, there was evidence that it was invalid from the outset. But the marriages would be presumed valid, not presumed invalid.
The Church doesn’t say that same sex marriage would be invalid. It says that they would be impossible.
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xixxvmcm85
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I agree. Arguing to a slippery slope or appealing to the untold dangers of Pandora’s Box is a pretty poor debate strategy.Common sense.
You can’t say that JUST BECAUSE same sex marriage may become a true reality that the world will become EVIL with those things.
But I humbly think that your argument that refusing the legal recognition of your marriage some how means the law views you as less than human, is equally lacking. Could you expound upon this a bit?
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Corki
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Since you say you know about Catholic teaching, you should know that the Catholic Church does indeed recognize many marriages that are celebrated outside the Church.
You should also be familiar with Catholic teaching that it is grave error to support same sex marriage.
“Marriage must be defined, recognized, and protected as a lifelong commitment between
a man and a woman, and as the source of the next generation and the protective haven for children.” Faithful Citizenship, USCCB, 2007
"In effect, giving same-sex unions the legal status of marriage would grant official public approval to homosexual activity and would treat it as if it were morally neutral.
When marriage is redefined so as to make other relationships equivalent to it, the institution of marriage is devalued and further weakened. The weakening of this basic institution at all levels and by various forces has already exacted too high a social cost."
USCCB, 2003
“In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.” CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS, CDF, 2003
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
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Adam1986
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I’m not sure exactly what the process is, but for someone to be excommunicated it takes A LOT MORE than a PERSONAL feeling. And you can ask anyone else on here who is more knowledgeable in this manner. Being excommunicated is a HUGE deal and is not taken lightly. For anyone to be truly excommunicated, they need to be informed in writing from I think the Pope, though it might be through a council of bishops. Not really sure on this manner. I’m sure someone else can shed more light and correct any mistakes.
Though I must say that line does remind me of being back in 1st grade when one kid would say you’re not my friend if you don’t agree with me.
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