Proper Use of the Church

[JoanneMary]

Catherine,

When I say “we” I am speaking for the church in general. Based upon what I have seen in many parishes, I am afraid that this is true. As far as allowing the Holy Spirit into my soul, I feel that the discernment in this matter has come directly from Him. If we did not have rules and regulations within the Catholic Church, we could not have existed for over 2,000 years.

 

[seeker70]

Matthew 19: 13-14.

13 Then were little children presented to him, that he should impose hands upon them and pray. And the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.

Hard to believe that Jesus would have a problem with it…as has been stated supra in this thread.

Aaron

 

[benedictgal]

Matthew 19: 13-14.

13 Then were little children presented to him, that he should impose hands upon them and pray. And the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.

Hard to believe that Jesus would have a problem with it…as has been stated supra in this thread.

Aaron

Aaron, first of all, we are talking about apprpopriate activity in the Church. I do not think that anyone has been saying that children shouldn’t be allowed. However, parents need to teach their children that appropriate behavior needs to be observed when in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. If you are taking your children to, let’s say, the White House, would you let them run around all over the place simply because “kids will be kids”? No. You observe norms and standards of behavior and respect the space you are visiting. If we are expected to exhibit appropriate behavior in visiting the President’s residence, how much more are we supposed to respect and regard sacred God’s house. Now, if by some blessed fortune you were to take your children to the Vatican and visit the Holy Father in the Apostolic palace, would you allow your kids to roam the halls, play tag and run amok? Conventional wisdom would dictate that you teach your children to behave appropriately and be respectful of the place they are visiting.

Remember, too, that the voice of God (emitting from the burning voice) told Moses to remove his sandals because he was standing on holy ground. Now, I’m not saying that we should all walk into church barefooted, but, the same concept applies. When we walk into church, we are standing on “holy ground.”

Catherine, I do not know what your formation background is. However, recall the words of Jesus as he cleaned out the moneychangers and the animal vendors: “My Father’s house is a house of prayer.” That alone should give us a clear indication that the church is not some ordinary buidling that triples as a reception hall, an auditorium and a worship space. The church exists as the sacred space where God meets man in an encounter known as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Jesus dewlls in the Tabernacle, the Holy of Holies, if you will.

It is the Holy Spirit who inspires us to have a deep reverence for the sacred. Remember what the first three commandments are about: Loving God, first and foremost. Loving God means giving Him the adoration and worship that is due to Him first. This includes having respect for His house, which is the church. That is why, when churches have choral performances of Sacred Music or other non-liturgical activities (with special permission), the Blessed Sacrament is always removed.

Protestants can use their buildings as reception halls and auditoriums because they have no sense of the Real Presence nor do they have the sense of liturgy that we do, as Catholics. They do not believe that Christ dwells, fully and really, in the Blessed Sacrament that is housed in a Tabernacle.

To have the attitude that you have means that you are perhaps placing more emphasis on the “community” rather than on God.

 

[Catherine1959]

I will pray that hearts will be opened to the Spirit of Christ so that they may feel His presence rather than trying to use the “law” to make sure that others don’t.

 

[benedictgal]

I will pray that hearts will be opened to the Spirit of Christ so that they may feel His presence rather than trying to use the “law” to make sure that others don’t.

Catherine, I’m afraid that you stil have not gotten the point that some of us are trying to make. No one is trying to use the “law” on anyone. It is regretful that you are taking things this way.

Perhaps it would help you to study the documents and read what the Holy Father said (as Cardinal Ratzinger) regarding sacred spaces. in his books “The Spirit of the Liturgy” and “A New Song for the Lord.”

You say that you go to a church that is “alive.” The Church herself is very alive, as she is the Body and Spouse of Christ. However, as “alive” as your parish may be, is it more at an emotional level or is it at a deeper level? Is it more of a feel-good, community experience? Is there a solid understanding of the Real Presence? In your posts, I have only seen you place emphasis on the community and on the people? But, how does God fit into the picture? How does the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament fit in to the scene? You can have all of the activities that you want in the parish; however, if the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass takes second place, then there are problems.

There needs to be a balance between the horizontal (human level) and the divine (God). Your posts seem to indicate that there is more of a push to the horiziontal at the expense of the vertical. It is also very symptomatic of the concerns expressed by a few of us that we ar losing a sense of the sacred.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please do not make personal observations of others’ in your posts, everyone. Just discuss the topic not one another. Thank you, all.

 

[Writer]

I am a homeschooling mom and my children and I participate in a Catholic hybrid school. The school is planning a Christmas pageant and will be using the altar area for their play. I feel that this is wrong and voiced my concern to the administrator of our school. She informed me that when she approached the pastor of the church last year, he assured her that it was perfectly acceptable and that the altar was a perfect place to have the children portray the Christmas Nativity. Is it acceptable to use the sanctuary of the church for a Christmas pageant? Thank you so much for your help. God Bless.

While I don’t have a problem with the Nativity play, I do agree with some of the later posts regarding the loss of the sense of sacred places in general. Protestants, for example, will assert that once the people have left the church following services, the building is like any other. This, however, ignores the tug of one’s own heart and the Bible. Look at the treatment of the Ark of the Covenant. Sacred places were very important to the Jews; it was part of how God revealed Himself to them.

As far as the Nativity play, though, I think of the verses such as having the children gather around Jesus, or the passages reminding us of the importance of childlike faith. If it is done in good taste and reverence for the place, I suggest it brings joy to our Creator–not sadness.

 

[seeker70]

Aaron, first of all, we are talking about apprpopriate activity in the Church. I do not think that anyone has been saying that children shouldn’t be allowed. However, parents need to teach their children that appropriate behavior needs to be observed when in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. If you are taking your children to, let’s say, the White House, would you let them run around all over the place simply because “kids will be kids”? No. You observe norms and standards of behavior and respect the space you are visiting. If we are expected to exhibit appropriate behavior in visiting the President’s residence, how much more are we supposed to respect and regard sacred God’s house. Now, if by some blessed fortune you were to take your children to the Vatican and visit the Holy Father in the Apostolic palace, would you allow your kids to roam the halls, play tag and run amok? Conventional wisdom would dictate that you teach your children to behave appropriately and be respectful of the place they are visiting.

We will have to disagree that a play such as described by the OP is somehow disrespectful. Of course I would not allow my kids to run amok in the Church, let alone in the Apostolic Palace.

Catherine, I do not know what your formation background is. However, recall the words of Jesus as he cleaned out the moneychangers and the animal vendors: “My Father’s house is a house of prayer.” That alone should give us a clear indication that the church is not some ordinary buidling that triples as a reception hall, an auditorium and a worship space. The church exists as the sacred space where God meets man in an encounter known as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Jesus dewlls in the Tabernacle, the Holy of Holies, if you will.

There are many forms of prayer; in fact, our daily lives can be a living prayer and sacrifice to Christ Jesus. Couldn’t this play be viewed as a form of prayer? Just my :twocents:

Christ’s blessings to you!