Prophecy of St Malachy

[New_Mom_Katie]

What do you all think of the Prophecy of St Malachy?

If you have never heard of it or just need a brush up, here is a good link to refer to:

catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

This prophecy, if true, suggests that the reign of popes either stops… or it simply just stops listing them…

What about the apocolypse? I don’t believe in the rapture the way my nondenominational husband does, but this prophecy does draw some questions!

 

[thistle]

What do you all think of the Prophecy of St Malachy?

If you have never heard of it or just need a brush up, here is a good link to refer to:

catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

This prophecy, if true, suggests that the reign of popes either stops… or it simply just stops listing them…

What about the apocolypse? I don’t believe in the rapture the way my nondenominational husband does, but this prophecy does draw some questions!

The prophecies concerning the popes are all considered to be fakes.

Extract from catholic Encyclopedia:

The most famous and best known prophecies about the popes are those attributed to St. Malachy. In 1139 he went to Rome to give an account of the affairs of his diocese to the pope, Innocent II, who promised him two palliums for the metropolitan Sees of Armagh and Cashel. While at Rome, he received (according to the Abbé Cucherat) the strange vision of the future wherein was unfolded before his mind the long list of illustrious pontiffs who were to rule the Church until the end of time. The same author tells us that St. Malachy gave his manuscript to Innocent II to console him in the midst of his tribulations, and that the document remained unknown in the Roman Archives until its discovery in 1590 (Cucherat, “Proph. de la succession des papes”, ch. xv). They were first published by Arnold de Wyon, and ever since there has been much discussion as to whether they are genuine predictions of St. Malachy or forgeries. The silence of 400 years on the part of so many learned authors who had written about the popes, and the silence of St. Bernard especially, who wrote the “Life of St. Malachy”, is a strong argument against their authenticity, but it is not conclusive if we adopt Cucherat’s theory that they were hidden in the Archives during those 400 years.

 

[New_Mom_Katie]

That doesn’t say that they are fake… it’s says that it’s uncertain if there is any truth to them.

But if you look at the actual prophecies within it for each individual pope- it is uncanny how it lines up.

I’m not saying I believe in the prophecy, only that it is at the very least an eerie coincidence.

 

[thistle]

That doesn’t say that they are fake… it’s says that it’s uncertain if there is any truth to them.

But if you look at the actual prophecies within it for each individual pope- it is uncanny how it lines up.

I’m not saying I believe in the prophecy, only that it is at the very least an eerie coincidence.

If you read it carefully the weight of evidence is AGAINST them being genuine, but just not 100% proven. Most credible theologians believe they are fake and actually none of the “prophecies” have happened.

 

[New_Mom_Katie]

I have to admit that you (and most theologians) are right. It’s probably fake.

But I have read the individual prophecies predicting each pope and they do all line up- but I will also admit that the prophecies were very general and could probably be made to fit anyone.

 

[JimG]

Since the St. Malachy prophecies seem to predict that the next pope will be the last, we won’t have to wait unduly long to know whether or not they are fake.

 

[Sideline]

But if you look at the actual prophecies within it for each individual pope- it is uncanny how it lines up.

I’m not saying I believe in the prophecy, only that it is at the very least an eerie coincidence.

Hi,

Just before I wrote this, I had a vision of a woman dressed all in white in a sea of red. This gives me the sense that you bring a great deal of integrity and passion to all that you do. You are extremely loyal to those close to you, especially to members of your family. There is no sacrifice you wouldn’t make for them. On the other hand, you feel betrayal very deeply. Once a person has betrayed your trust, or taken advantage of your loyalty, you find it hard to ever trust that person again.

What do you think, was my vision accurate?

Are you familiar with the term “Forer effect”? It refers to the tendency that people have to identify with vague and general statements.

Take the motto “De rure albo” or “From the white field”. It is true that Adrian IV was from Saint Albans, but the prophecy would have been equally true if a pope had been elected who either had had a white field on his coat of arms or was from a place with a white field on its coat of arms. Or was from a place famous for white flowers. Or was from an order that had a white cassock. Or was from a snowy region. Or had been closely associated with former popes. Or…

It would have been possible to find a correlation between that phrase, and nearly everyone who could have been pope at that time.

Take Religio depopulata, which means “religion laid waste” which is the phrase used to describe Benedict XV. During his reign the Bolshevik revolution took place, but this would have been true of ***anyone ***who was pope during that time. It has nothing at all to do with him at all. If you read about him personally, it is really hard to imagine how the term “religion laid waste” would apply to him at all. And if the revolution hadn’t taken place, something would have that would have made “religion laid waste” fit. Think of a period of history that hasn’t included war, famine, or pestilence.

“Pastor et Nauta” which translates to “Shepherd and Sailor” has been said to refer to the fact that John XXIII was from Venice, a port city famous for gondolas, but again it could have referred to any port city. Or anyone who had to travel over the water to get to the curia. Or anyone with a boat or waves on his coat of arms. In otherwords, no matter who the curia picked, something would have made it fit.

 

[beeliner]

That doesn’t say that they are fake… it’s says that it’s uncertain if there is any truth to them.

But if you look at the actual prophecies within it for each individual pope- it is uncanny how it lines up.

I’m not saying I believe in the prophecy, only that it is at the very least an eerie coincidence.

Well, you are on the right track here.

The earlier predictions are right on the button.

The later ones are no more accurate than might be expected by chance.

The ‘dividing line’ between the accurate and the inaccurate obviously indicates the approximate date of composition, needless to say, long, long after the death of the good Malachy!

The Encyclopaedia Britannica has a good treatment under ‘Malachy, Saint’.

 

[Ivan_Muniz]

is peter the roman supposed to be a bad pope or a good pope? ive heard many say that he’s supposed to be the antichrist himself

 

[beeliner]

is peter the roman supposed to be a bad pope or a good pope? ive heard many say that he’s supposed to be the antichrist himself

HELLO!! Anybody home in there? I don’t see any lights on.

The whole thing is a hoax!

Here are the facts. Note the chronology here:

1. The ‘prophecies’ were first published around 1580.
2. They concern popes from about 450 years PRIOR to publication up to the last pope.
3. The ‘predictions’ concerning the popes who reigned PRIOR to publication of the list are VERY SPECIFIC and completely accurate.
4. The ‘predictions’ concerning the popes who would reign AFTER publication are VERY AMBIGUOUS and their accuracy is about what would be expected by chance.
5. Use the common sense God gave you and draw your own conclusion.

 

[beckycmarie]

I believe the so-called prophecies of St. Malachy are unapproved private revelation, and as such are not to be discussed on this forum.

 

[beeliner]

I believe the so-called prophecies of St. Malachy are unapproved private revelation, and as such are not to be discussed on this forum.

While I disapprove of censorship in general, I think that is a reasonable prohibition, or every nut case would be posting his/her own revelations.

The St. Malachy prophecies are FICTION. He never made any such predictions. They are the product of an anonymous hoaxter, written hundreds of years after his death.

 

[beckycmarie]

While I disapprove of censorship in general, I think that is a reasonable prohibition, or every nut case would be posting his/her own revelations.

Yup, hence the ban:

Note from Mod - No Private Revelations or Centering Prayer!

Of course the way that ban is written, someone could interpret it to mean it’s okay to discuss the revelation mentioned in this thread or a variety of other unapproved revelations:

Material from unapproved private revelations include:
Visions you’ve had
Messages God asked you to transmit
Messages from Bayside
Messages from Medjugorje

If you post material from unapproved private revelations, your account will be subject to the Enforcement Rules, which could include immediate suspension or banning of your account.

Need to change that to “Material from unapproved private revelations including, but not limited to. . .”

 

[Sideline]

Just a guess, but since this thread was moved to Spirituality from Apologetics, and since the title makes it pretty clear what it is about, I think it is safe to say that the “powers that be” have decided that it doesn’t violate the rules.

However, there is the handy-dandy “report a problem post” button if you disagree with the acceptability of this thread.

 

[Sideline]

I agree with the poster who says that they are fiction and not revelation, by the way.

 

[New_Mom_Katie]

Wow- I sure did open a can of worms!

But at least now I know the facts!

 

[bullfrog543]

i dont understand how the rules all apply to only schizophrenics thats almost racist thats my life and im proad of my life i treat it all as delusions and usually quote it as an illness or are schizophrenics ridiculed to be recognised by churches to actually hear god vissions ect if not unapproved doesnt classify as schizophrenia i dont understand

 

[LilyM]

i dont understand how the rules all apply to only schizophrenics thats almost racist thats my life and im proad of my life i treat it all as delusions and usually quote it as an illness or are schizophrenics ridiculed to be recognised by churches to actually hear god vissions ect if not unapproved doesnt classify as schizophrenia i dont understand

No-one’s saying anything about schizophrenia - especially if, as you say, you make clear that you are describing a schizophrenic delusion, that would be fine.

There are many false apparitions, visions and messages, however. Some possibly the result of unacknowledged mental illness, some deliberate deceit, some the result of evil influences - the Church has processes to thoroughly sift the wheat from the chaff, and it’s because we trust the Church’s judgement that we only permit material from approved apparitions.

 

[beeliner]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the Encyclopaedia Britannica has a short but very informative article on the good St. Malachy, who was the first Irish saint (St. Patrick was, of course, not Irish). It’s a little too long to type in here in the time I have available, but here’s the final sentence:

No writings of Malachy are known to exist, but falsely ascribed to him is the Prophecy of the Popes, a 16th-century forgery consisting of a list of mottos supposedly fitting pontiffs from the mid-12th century to the end of time.

 

[bluerose]

Well, try this on just for fun (I originally posted this in the End Times Speculation thread over in the Back Fence forum):

According to St. Malachy (or whoever used his name), there were to be only four more popes after John XXIII: John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and *Petrus Romanus, *right? Right. Okay.

I was in Rome back in '91 when my BIL was ordained and we attended a Mass at one of the basilicas (I think it was St. Paul’s Outside the Walls, but it might have been St. John Lateran. Anyway…) which is decorated with mosaic portraits of all the popes from St. Peter up to (at that time) Pope John Paul II. They were set in circular frames… and there were TWO empty frames after the mosaic of JPII. Meaning room for only TWO more portraits.

Or only TWO more popes.

(cue the “Twilight Zone” theme song)

Actually, not knowing when the mosaics were made part of the basilica’s decor, we just wondered if perhaps the artist or whoever’s idea it was had heard of the prophecy and purposely set up only enough frames for the number of popes in the prophecies. If anyone knows, please let us know.

Sorry if I freaked anyone out.