Prophet like Unto Moses : here we go

[anjoh66]

No, he did not understand. You think that Allah would have known and explained it to him.

It is just another way that Islam prooves itself false.

Yes God should have explained that to his prophet, well i am not muslim i only wa pointing out why the jews couldnt accept Muhammad as a prophet

 

[ralphinal]

Yes God should have explained that to his prophet, well i am not muslim i only wa pointing out why the jews couldnt accept Muhammad as a prophet

The only thing is taht Allah did not seem to know, either.

Good point.

 

[planten]

The answer would be too long i therefore paste a link where you can read about the messiah in different religions and their views about him, even the muslim view, but one thing is for sure, Muhammad never claimed to be the messiah but instead referred to Jesus as the messiah and thats why the jews couldnt acceppt him as a prophet because in their views only a false prophet could claim to be a prophet after the messiah.

answers.com/topic/messiah

That was good post from anjoh. I do not visit sites. anjoh could have given some brief summarised account about the duties of the promised Messiah of the Jews. That would have helped me.

Now I have one more question. Please paste the verses which say that promised Messaih will be the last prophet. Also, show that it did not mean the last prophet of the Israelis. That is from sacred text, give some verses to support your idea that Messaih was to be the last prophet and no prophet was to appear after him. Thanks.

 

[planten]

I know that i was only pointing out that even if they could have accepted by reason that he was a decendant from Ishmael and thus a decendant of Abraham and therefore maybe accepted him as a prophet, he himself(Mohammad) put himself in the dilemma when he declared Jesus as the Messiah, i guess he didnt fully understand what it really meant.

anjoh, This point of accepting jesus as the Promised Messiah would go in favor of the prophet Muhammad. He was brave enough to declare the truth and did not care for what the Jews may do. Moreover, he was receiving revealtion from Allah (for 23 years) just as Jesus was guided and given messages from God. The God is the same one God.

The message from God will also be the same. God would not tell one thing to Moses a.s. and another different thing to Jesus a.s. and another different thing to Muhammad (in Peace). A messiah was promised for the Jews with certain signs (anjoh should describe them). The Messiah came. The Jews did not recognise him. But Muhammad did recognise him and admitted that Jesus was the promised Messiah of the Jews.

That was as much as good thing. And Muhammad did not refrain from telling the truth.

 

[ralphinal]

The Messiah was to be a practicing Jew, blaimless in the eyes of the Law. He was to usher in a new era of peace and freedom to God’s people. He was to bring all men to God without question.

I know that I am leaving something out.

 

[planten]

No, he did not understand. You think that Allah would have known and explained it to him.

It is just another way that Islam prooves itself false.

Ralph, sorry. You and anjoh are wrong. Muhammad was not working from his own mind or understanding. He was not a political person. he was a super spiritual head and Seal of all Messengers that ever appeared in the world. He was the Khaatam an Nabiyyeen carrying the Seal of the Truth of all prophets.

You are saying that Muhammad did not understand the implications of admitting Jesus as Messiah, that is all wrong. Muhammad knew each and everything about the Jews and the christians. Please read the Quran.

 

[planten]

Yes God should have explained that to his prophet, well i am not muslim i only wa pointing out why the jews couldnt accept Muhammad as a prophet

anjoh, that was good of you. Now please would you undertake to explain why the Jews did not recognise Jesus as their Promised Messiah?

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph, sorry. You and anjoh are wrong. Muhammad was not working from his own mind or understanding. He was not a political person. he was a super spiritual head and Seal of all Messengers that ever appeared in the world. He was the Khaatam an Nabiyyeen carrying the Seal of the Truth of all prophets.

You are saying that Muhammad did not understand the implications of admitting Jesus as Messiah, that is all wrong. Muhammad knew each and everything about the Jews and the christians. Please read the Quran.

Then why did he get the Trinity wrong? Why did he get the Crucifixion wrong? Why was Jesus born of a virgin? If he had understood what the Messiah was, he would have seen that there is no need for anyone else.

All Muhammed knew was Christian heresy and Arabian blood-lust.

 

[inJESUS]

He was the Khaatam an Nabiyyeen carrying the Seal of the Truth of all prophets.

aren;t you an Ahmadiyya muslim?

You are saying that Muhammad did not understand the implications of admitting Jesus as Messiah, that is all wrong. Muhammad knew each and everything about the Jews and the christians. Please read the Quran.

 

[planten]

aren;t you an Ahmadiyya muslim?
we did. What happened to Jesus’ crucifixion according to the Quran? why was Jesus born to no father according to the Quran? why was Mary chosen above the women of the earth according to the quran?why is Jesus called the Messiah according to the Quran? why only Jesus is called the Word and Spirit of Allah in the Quran? you have but speculations.

 

[anjoh66]

inJESUS;4439861:

inJesus, you are taking undue support from the Quran. Your Jesus should not rest on our Quran.

Now about your post. According to Quran, Jesus did not die on the cross. So that settles it.

There is not a word in the Quran about Jesus being born without a father. So that settles second point of Jesus superiority

.

There is no harm in chosing Mary above the whole women of the world.It was a good thing to chose Mary above the ladies of that time only. She deserved that good and great status.

Next point is: Why is Jesus called the Messiah according to the Quran? Well he is called the Messaih according to the Quran because he is the promised Messiah of the Jews. It is the truth. The Jews did not admit it. But Quran has admitted it and informed us all that Jesus is the promsied Messiah of the Jews and a true messenger from Allah. The Jews were not expecting any god in their Messiah. The Muslims believe the same thing.

Next point: why only Jesus is called the Word and Spirit of Allah in the Quran? Please know that Jesus is not the only one who is a word from Allah. So was John the baptist and so are many other things, called the words of Allah. They are innumerable.

About the spirit from Allah is also correct. Jesus was troubled by the Jews and accused of many things. Allah cleared him from all blames by telling that he was not any false person that the Jews wanted to prove. Jesus was created by the special news (words) from Allah. That was a message from Allah, pre-information and Allah breathed into him from His spirit.

Please note that a spirit was breathed into Adam. It is mentioned at other place in Quran. So Jesus was not the only one in whom the spirit was breathed. The very first person who was exalted to a high rank of prophethood was also breathed with the spirit from Allah.

That is described when Allah informed the angels that He was about to create a new specy, a person (?). Allah said “When I have created him and fashioned him and breathed into him of my spirit then all of you should bow down to him.” So Jesus is not the only one in that matter.

We Muslims believe that Jesus son of Mary was the perfect man and a messnger to the children of Israel. He was not a false person. he was a man of God and he was not any god. He was just like all other messengers of Allah.

I can see that you are distorting the quran as it says clearly

[Yusufali 3:45] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

وَيُكَلِّمُ النَّاسَ فِي الْمَهْدِ وَكَهْلاً وَمِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ {46}
[Yusufali 3:46] “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”

قَالَتْ رَبِّ أَنَّى يَكُونُ لِي وَلَدٌ وَلَمْ يَمْسَسْنِي بَشَرٌ قَالَ كَذَلِكِ اللّهُ يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاء إِذَا قَضَى أَمْرًا فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ {47}
[Yusufali 3:47] She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, ‘Be,’ and it is!

وَيُعَلِّمُهُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالإِنجِيلَ {48}
[Yusufali 3:48] "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,

وَرَسُولاً إِلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنِّي قَدْ جِئْتُكُم بِآيَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُم مِّنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ فَأَنفُخُ فِيهِ فَيَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَأُبْرِئُ الأكْمَهَ والأَبْرَصَ وَأُحْيِـي الْمَوْتَى بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَأُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا تَأْكُلُونَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُونَ فِي بُيُوتِكُمْ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ {49}
[Yusufali 3:49] "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah’s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

وَمُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَلِأُحِلَّ لَكُم بَعْضَ الَّذِي حُرِّمَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَجِئْتُكُم بِآيَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ فَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُونِ {50}
[Yusufali 3:50] "’(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

So it is clearly that he had no father, even your scholars such as ahmed deedat was stressing the point that muslim believes in the virgin birth when he said that the quran doesnt mention Joseph the carpenter and also no other man as being husband of mary.

So stop lying if you wanna ba taken seriously

 

[anjoh66]

But the Ahmadiyya has been lying from the beginning thats why other muslims count them as disbelievers(Kuffar) and that their blood is lawful to shed.

 

[inJESUS]

of course he doesn’t.

Now about your post. According to Quran, Jesus did not die on the cross. So that settles it.

not that easily for the verse is much more problematic than you want to admit. On the one hand there is a negation in the verse, on the other hand there is an affirmation.

But they killed him not, Nor crucified him (negation) but so it was made to appear to them (affirmation), and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge.

Those who are full of doubts are not Christians, and never been. The ones full of doubt are ironically the Muslims since the Quran does not explain the “appearance” of the crucifixion.Did Allah make a virtual crucifixion or where humans all taking drugs? So my point stands, the Quran throws words but no explanation

There is not a word in the Quran about Jesus being born without a father. So that settles second point of Jesus superiority.

that is totally wrong.

She then said, ‘How shall I, whom no mortal has touched, have a son; neither have I been unchaste?’ He replied, ‘Even so. The Lord has said, "Easy is that for Me, and We may appoint him a sign unto men and a mercy from Us; it is a thing decreed."’

Again, why was Jesus born to no father? the Quran doesn’t answer.

There is no harm in chosing Mary above the whole women of the world.It was a good thing to chose Mary above the ladies of that time only. She deserved that good and great status.

Mary was the only woman who derserves among the women of the earth? why, according to the Quran?

Next point: why only Jesus is called the Word and Spirit of Allah in the Quran? Please know that Jesus is not the only one who is a word from Allah. So was John the baptist and so are many other things, called the words of Allah. They are innumerable.

please give reference from the Quran as to why Jesus is called as such and about others called as such.

That is described when Allah informed the angels that He was about to create a new specy, a person (?). Allah said “When I have created him and fashioned him and breathed into him of my spirit then all of you should bow down to him.”

what does the spirit if Allah mean according to the Quran?

We Muslims believe that Jesus son of Mary was the perfect man and a messnger to the children of Israel

. only? why does the Quran say He is a sign to humanity unless humanity means Jews?

 

[planten]

But the Ahmadiyya has been lying from the beginning thats why other muslims count them as disbelievers(Kuffar) and that their blood is lawful to shed.

anjoh, you said that according to OT, the promised messiah was to be the last prophet. Could you give me some proof of that please?

Also you did not define the status and duties of the promised Messiah of the Jews. We should know what were the duties of the promised Messiah of the Jews as per their scripture. Thanks. This is a reminder only.

 

[swariffin]

That was good post from anjoh. I do not visit sites. anjoh could have given some brief summarised account about the duties of the promised Messiah of the Jews. That would have helped me.

Now I have one more question. Please paste the verses which say that promised Messaih will be the last prophet. Also, show that it did not mean the last prophet of the Israelis. That is from sacred text, give some verses to support your idea that Messaih was to be the last prophet and no prophet was to appear after him. Thanks.

You told me that you have read the bible, correct? If you really did, then you should have known what the duty of the Messiah is/are.

 

[swariffin]

Ralph, sorry. You and anjoh are wrong. Muhammad was not working from his own mind or understanding. He was not a political person. he was a super spiritual head and Seal of all Messengers that ever appeared in the world. He was the Khaatam an Nabiyyeen carrying the Seal of the Truth of all prophets.

You are saying that Muhammad did not understand the implications of admitting Jesus as Messiah, that is all wrong. Muhammad knew each and everything about the Jews and the christians. Please read the Quran.

The Quran came from Muhammad. There would be no surprise if you find a lot of supports about Muhammad. The same analogy of looking a proof of innocense from the statement of the defendant in the court (unless the defendant plead guilty, off course).

 

[swariffin]

anjoh, that was good of you. Now please would you undertake to explain why the Jews did not recognise Jesus as their Promised Messiah?

Because Jesus has disturbed those Jewish in power at that time who corrupted the law of God as written in the Torah by their own laws called the Talmud.

Because Jesus has destroyed the money-making relationship among the vendors and money changers in the Temple with the Temple’s management.

Because Jesus’ causin (John the Baptist) criticized and condemned that Herod’s latest marriage as Illegal and sinful.

Because the Jews at that time had eaten the **** of the Shanhedrin. so much the people who shouted “Hossana… Hossann…” and in a week of time shouted “Crucified Him…”. No wonder John Paul II mentioned that “It is a mistake to apply the American Democracy to define faith.”

So, despite that Jesus had made so many miracles, those miracles did not matter. Flavius Josephus a non christian Jewish, the spy of the Roman, who lived in the first century acknow-ledged the miracles, but Muhammad who live 600 years later did not.

 

[swariffin]

planten;4444721:

I can see that you are distorting the quran as it says clearly

[Yusufali 3:45] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

وَيُكَلِّمُ النَّاسَ فِي الْمَهْدِ وَكَهْلاً وَمِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ {46}
[Yusufali 3:46] “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”

قَالَتْ رَبِّ أَنَّى يَكُونُ لِي وَلَدٌ وَلَمْ يَمْسَسْنِي بَشَرٌ قَالَ كَذَلِكِ اللّهُ يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاء إِذَا قَضَى أَمْرًا فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ {47}
[Yusufali 3:47] She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, ‘Be,’ and it is!

وَيُعَلِّمُهُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالإِنجِيلَ {48}
[Yusufali 3:48] "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,

وَرَسُولاً إِلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنِّي قَدْ جِئْتُكُم بِآيَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُم مِّنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ فَأَنفُخُ فِيهِ فَيَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَأُبْرِئُ الأكْمَهَ والأَبْرَصَ وَأُحْيِـي الْمَوْتَى بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَأُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا تَأْكُلُونَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُونَ فِي بُيُوتِكُمْ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ {49}
[Yusufali 3:49] "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah’s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

وَمُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَلِأُحِلَّ لَكُم بَعْضَ الَّذِي حُرِّمَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَجِئْتُكُم بِآيَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ فَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُونِ {50}
[Yusufali 3:50] "’(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

So it is clearly that he had no father, even your scholars such as ahmed deedat was stressing the point that muslim believes in the virgin birth when he said that the quran doesnt mention Joseph the carpenter and also no other man as being husband of mary.

So stop lying if you wanna ba taken seriously

No wonder, one of the Poster (now quit) named Angelos called Planten a liar. Angelos was a former Muslim, and he knows about Quran.

 

[ralphinal]

Because Jesus has disturbed those Jewish in power at that time who corrupted the law of God as written in the Torah by their own laws called the Talmud.

Because Jesus has destroyed the money-making relationship among the vendors and money changers in the Temple with the Temple’s management.

Because Jesus’ causin (John the Baptist) criticized and condemned that Herod’s latest marriage as Illegal and sinful.

Because the Jews at that time had eaten the **** of the Shanhedrin. so much the people who shouted “Hossana… Hossann…” and in a week of time shouted “Crucified Him…”. No wonder John Paul II mentioned that “It is a mistake to apply the American Democracy to define faith.”

So, despite that Jesus had made so many miracles, those miracles did not matter. Flavius Josephus a non christian Jewish, the spy of the Roman, who lived in the first century acknow-ledged the miracles, but Muhammad who live 600 years later did not.

You left out one of the biggest. Jews of that era thought like Muslims: freedom only exists when their enemies are dead or enslaved. Jesus taught something totally differant. Freedom is living as an adopted heir to the Kingdom of God, free from sin.

 

[anjoh66]

Ralph, sorry. You and anjoh are wrong. Muhammad was not working from his own mind or understanding. He was not a political person. he was a super spiritual head and Seal of all Messengers that ever appeared in the world. He was the Khaatam an Nabiyyeen carrying the Seal of the Truth of all prophets.

You are saying that Muhammad did not understand the implications of admitting Jesus as Messiah, that is all wrong. Muhammad knew each and everything about the Jews and the christians. Please read the Quran.

I have read the quran for 20 years and still i claim that Muhammad got it from his fellow jews and christians at his time otherwise he wouldnt have known about the messiah idea.

The Messiah and his duties is not mentioned in unequivocal statements in the bible, messiah means annointed, for a purpose, like for example :

Isaiah 11:1-5 An Ideal King Establishes a Kingdom of Peace
11:1 A shoot will grow out of Jesse’s 1 root stock,

a bud will sprout 2 from his roots.

11:2 The Lord’s spirit will rest on him

a spirit that gives extraordinary wisdom,

a spirit that provides the ability to execute plans,

a spirit that produces absolute loyalty to the Lord.

11:3 He will take delight in obeying the Lord.

He will not judge by mere appearances,

or make decisions on the basis of hearsay.

11:4 He will treat the poor fairly,
and make right decisions for the downtrodden of the earth.

He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth,

and order the wicked to be executed.

11:5 Justice will be like a belt around his waist,

integrity will be like a belt around his hips

Or the part which Jesus himself implemented on himself at the beginning of his mission

Luke 4:16-20
4:16 Now Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 4:17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,

4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,

because he has anointed me (Made me Messiah) to proclaim good news to the poor.

He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives

and the regaining of sight to the blind,

to set free those who are oppressed,

4:19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

4:20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on him. 4:21 Then he began to tell them, “Today this scripture has been fulfilled even as you heard it being read.”

The last of the prophecy where says the year doesnt of course mean just a year but means the beginning of the Grace from the Lord from that moment till the end of time, so there was no need for any Muhammad to come after him, as the kingdom of the messiah was to last forever

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6-7For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[7]Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

This clearly shows that the child is both the Mighty God and the Prince of Peace and he will be so forever and nobody ever claimed that for Muhammad so the covenant God made with Abraham was to be fulfilled in the Children of Israel, for Ishmael God only promised to make him a great nation.