Prophetical Time

[Ben_Masada]

Prophetical Time

It has been a huge misconception among Christians, especially SDA Protestants to make of a passage in the Tanach, where a day is taken as a year, and generalize it into a prophetic method. That’s a mistake.

If we allow an analogy here with the mathematical value given to the unknown quantities “x” and “y” by Mathematicians, we will see that the value given to the unknown elements “x” and “y” of an equation is arbitrary, according to the issue at hand.

The same method used by Mathematicians when solving an equation is the method used by Prophets and Theologians when solving the meaning of a prophecy. The method is arbitrary. What does it mean?

Let us take, for an example, the 40 days the 12 Israelites took to scout the Land of Canaan in Numbers 14:33,34. The “x” value for a day here would be a year. Therefore, 40 days scouting the land for 40 years of wandering in the desert. This does not mean at all as a rule, that a prophetic day must be for all cases determined to mean a year.

Since two visions took place in the case of Daniel, in the first one, the Prophet himself gives to the unknown factor of “x” the value of a week to mean a year, as we have 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled as 70 years. (Dan. 9:2)

In the second vision in Daniel 10, the Prophet refers to three full weeks (Dan.10:2) or 21 days (Dan. 10:13) to bring the unknown value of “y” to the arbitrary value of a year. Hence, 21 years, so that the 70 years of the exile must be fulfilled, according to the injunction
that, since 70 weeks had been decreed, 70 years had to be fulfilled. (Dan. 9:2,24)

A similar method is used in the NT with regards to the three days and three nights with the allowance to arbitrarily consider a whole day for the part of a day, and a whole night for the part of a night. That’s not a general rule though, but an allowance to apply arbitrariness.

Conclusion:

Every Theologian has the freedom to use arbitrary value in prophetic time but a pattern is used to curb excesses: Isaiah 8:20. To probe not the method but the purpose. “To the Law and the Testemony; if they don’t speak according to this pattern, it’s because there is no light in them.” Being the prophecy Jewish, the method and the purpose must be Jewish. Hence, any non-Jewish attempt is prone to fail right from the onset.

Ben

 

[Lev23]

Shalom!

Nice try Ben, but Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel. It’s too late for another to come. Yeshua came the first time, but Jerusalem did not recognize the time of God coming to them.

Jerusalem will know at the second coming though.

Yeshua is the Lamb of God who came already, and is coming back as the Lion of Judah.

You don’t have to make algebra out of scripture to see this, especially in light of the testimony the Church has of those who walked with Yeshua.

Nor can you make algebra out of scripture to deny Yeshua as Messiah.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Prophetical Time

It has been a huge misconception among Christians, especially SDA Protestants to make of a passage in the Tanach, where a day is taken as a year, and generalize it into a prophetic method. That’s a mistake.

If we allow an analogy here with the mathematical value given to the unknown quantities “x” and “y” by Mathematicians, we will see that the value given to the unknown elements “x” and “y” of an equation is arbitrary, according to the issue at hand.

The same method used by Mathematicians when solving an equation is the method used by Prophets and Theologians when solving the meaning of a prophecy. The method is arbitrary. What does it mean?

Let us take, for an example, the 40 days the 12 Israelites took to scout the Land of Canaan in Numbers 14:33,34. The “x” value for a day here would be a year. Therefore, 40 days scouting the land for 40 years of wandering in the desert. This does not mean at all as a rule, that a prophetic day must be for all cases determined to mean a year.

Since two visions took place in the case of Daniel, in the first one, the Prophet himself gives to the unknown factor of “x” the value of a week to mean a year, as we have 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled as 70 years. (Dan. 9:2)

In the second vision in Daniel 10, the Prophet refers to three full weeks (Dan.10:2) or 21 days (Dan. 10:13) to bring the unknown value of “y” to the arbitrary value of a year. Hence, 21 years, so that the 70 years of the exile must be fulfilled, according to the injunction
that, since 70 weeks had been decreed, 70 years had to be fulfilled. (Dan. 9:2,24)

A similar method is used in the NT with regards to the three days and three nights with the allowance to arbitrarily consider a whole day for the part of a day, and a whole night for the part of a night. That’s not a general rule though, but an allowance to apply arbitrariness.

Conclusion:

Every Theologian has the freedom to use arbitrary value in prophetic time but a pattern is used to curb excesses: Isaiah 8:20. To probe not the method but the purpose. “To the Law and the Testemony; if they don’t speak according to this pattern, it’s because there is no light in them.” Being the prophecy Jewish, the method and the purpose must be Jewish. Hence, any non-Jewish attempt is prone to fail right from the onset.

Ben

Since this is a Catholic site, you won’t find many people interested in numbers games with Scripture. If you want to argue the case, go find a Seventh Day Adventist site or similar, since most of us couldn’t care less about numeric symbolism in Scripture.

And as far as the 40 days is concerned, I’ve long been led to believe that its ancient Hebrew usage simply meant a moderately long time, and not necessarily a literal 40 days.

I don’t see this particular discussion going far, since most of us aren’t even interested in personal interpretations of ancient Semitic numerology.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Shalom!

Nice try Ben, but Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel. It’s too late for another to come. Yeshua came the first time, but Jerusalem did not recognize the time of God coming to them.

Jerusalem will know at the second coming though.

Yeshua is the Lamb of God who came already, and is coming back as the Lion of Judah.

You don’t have to make algebra out of scripture to see this, especially in light of the testimony the Church has of those who walked with Yeshua.

Nor can you make algebra out of scripture to deny Yeshua as Messiah.

Ssshhhh! Ben will call you a Replacement Theologian and an anti-semite if you disagree with him.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Shalom!

Nice try Ben, but Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel. It’s too late for another to come. Yeshua came the first time, but Jerusalem did not recognize the time of God coming to them.

Jerusalem will know at the second coming though.

Yeshua is the Lamb of God who came already, and is coming back as the Lion of Judah.

You don’t have to make algebra out of scripture to see this, especially in light of the testimony the Church has of those who walked with Yeshua.

Nor can you make algebra out of scripture to deny Yeshua as Messiah.

Yeshua was not God, because he was Jewish, and there is no place for Greek Mythology in Judaism. And he never claimed to be the Messiah. The claim was made by Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Since this is a Catholic site, you won’t find many people interested in numbers games with Scripture. If you want to argue the case, go find a Seventh Day Adventist site or similar, since most of us couldn’t care less about numeric symbolism in Scripture.

And as far as the 40 days is concerned, I’ve long been led to believe that its ancient Hebrew usage simply meant a moderately long time, and not necessarily a literal 40 days.

I don’t see this particular discussion going far, since most of us aren’t even interested in personal interpretations of ancient Semitic numerology.

You are generalizing tastes. It might be that not everyone thinks like you. I said especially SDA’s. It doesn’t mean that other denominations are not interested, even Catholics. So, you can save your breath and let others think for themselves.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ssshhhh! Ben will call you a Replacement Theologian and an anti-semite if you disagree with him.

No need to ssshhhh! I heard it. You are exaggerating. I don’t mind disagreements. There is learning in controversy.

 

[Hisalone]

Yeshua was not God, because he was Jewish, and there is no place for Greek Mythology in Judaism. And he never claimed to be the Messiah. The claim was made by Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.

John 4:25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

Actually the greeks got their mythology from the Babylonians. Nimrod and his mother Semiramis started the Babylonian mystery religion which was absorbed by greek and then roman mythology.
Man becomes god a theme from Genesis 3 in which Adam desired to be like God. Jesus is God becoming man, not the same thing.

 

[geometer]

Nimrod and his mother Semiramis started the Babylonian mystery religion which was absorbed by greek and then roman mythology.

Do you know what the letters IHS mean, when they are inscribed on crosses?

 

[w_stewart]

Do you know what the letters IHS mean, when they are inscribed on crosses?

So that means Christianity is founded on Greek mythology?

 

[Ben_Masada]

John 4:25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

Actually the greeks got their mythology from the Babylonians. Nimrod and his mother Semiramis started the Babylonian mystery religion which was absorbed by greek and then roman mythology.
Man becomes god a theme from Genesis 3 in which Adam desired to be like God. Jesus is God becoming man, not the same thing.

If you believe that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah in John 4:25, you are up for a good explanation about Acts 11:26, when and where the disciples started being called Christians for the first time. That was in Antioch, in the Synagogue of the Nazarenes, whose Rabbi was Barnabas. Since he had been an old friend of Paul’s, he went after him in Tarsus and invited him over to help with the work. After a whole year that Paul was there preaching about Jesus as Christ, the disciples started being called Christians. This was about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. Christ means Messiah. Therefore, Jesus could never have claimed to be the Messiah in John 4:25. That’s an interpolation of the guy who wrote that gospel. If you insist, there is contradiction in the NT. Are you ready for that?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

If you believe that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah in John 4:25, you are up for a good explanation about Acts 11:26, when and where the disciples started being called Christians for the first time. That was in Antioch, in the Synagogue of the Nazarenes, whose Rabbi was Barnabas. Since he had been an old friend of Paul’s, he went after him in Tarsus and invited him over to help with the work. After a whole year that Paul was there preaching about Jesus as Christ, the disciples started being called Christians. This was about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. Christ means Messiah. Therefore, Jesus could never have claimed to be the Messiah in John 4:25. That’s an interpolation of the guy who wrote that gospel. If you insist, there is contradiction in the NT. Are you ready for that?

I don’t follow your logic. The term “Christians” was actually coined by outsiders, and was in fact meant to be derogatory. Just as for example the term “Jews” can be used in a derisive manner in some quarters.

Christ now has over a billion followers. How many has formal Judaism got, 2000 years on?

 

[Ben_Masada]

I don’t follow your logic. The term “Christians” was actually coined by outsiders, and was in fact meant to be derogatory. Just as for example the term “Jews” can be used in a derisive manner in some quarters.

Christ now has over a billion followers. How many has formal Judaism got, 2000 years on?

**If you don’t follow my logic, yours cannot even be called logic. If the disciples started being called “Christians” as you say, from outsiders, after Paul spent a whole year there, the name ought to be related to what Paul was doing. If Paul had declined Barnabas invitation, the disciples would have continued being called by another name and not Christians. The Logic therefore is that Christians started with Paul and there is no other logic to apply here.

Regarding your question about Christianity with over a billion followers and Judaism with no more than 15 millions, I have a question for you. Do you happen to know how many little stones are there in our planet? Of course not! Billions, trillions, Zillions, impossible to count. But do you happen to know how many precious stones are there in our planet? We don’t know but it’s possible to count. Perhaps no more than 15 millions. Fair enough for a reply? If you didn’t like the answer, don’t ask this kind of question anymore.**

 

[cthulhubryan]

I don’t follow your logic. The term “Christians” was actually coined by outsiders, and was in fact meant to be derogatory. Just as for example the term “Jews” can be used in a derisive manner in some quarters.

Christ now has over a billion followers. How many has formal Judaism got, 2000 years on?

Ben likes to play with his theories that Christ was not God and that Paul founded Christianity. His position is totally unfounded in scripture so he will tell you that Paul is responsible for the whole of the New Testament. He will tell you there is no New Covenant, he will tell you that Christ only came to reform Judaism.

If you continue to show that you believe in the fact that Christiana are sons of Isaiah, then Ben will say you are using Replacement Theology and are an anti semite.

 

[firstmode]

Stephen from the book of acts has something to say to you Ben:

Acts 7

Stephen’s Speech to the Sanhedrin

1Then the high priest asked him, “Are these charges true?”
2To this he replied: "Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran. 3’Leave your country and your people,’ God said, ‘and go to the land I will show you.’[a]

4"So he left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. After the death of his father, God sent him to this land where you are now living. 5He gave him no inheritance here, not even a foot of ground. But God promised him that he and his descendants after him would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child. 6God spoke to him in this way: ‘Your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. 7But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves,’ God said, ‘and afterward they will come out of that country and worship me in this place.’** 8Then he gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him eight days after his birth. Later Isaac became the father of Jacob, and Jacob became the father of the twelve patriarchs.

9"Because the patriarchs were jealous of Joseph, they sold him as a slave into Egypt. But God was with him 10and rescued him from all his troubles. He gave Joseph wisdom and enabled him to gain the goodwill of Pharaoh king of Egypt; so he made him ruler over Egypt and all his palace.

11"Then a famine struck all Egypt and Canaan, bringing great suffering, and our fathers could not find food. 12When Jacob heard that there was grain in Egypt, he sent our fathers on their first visit. 13On their second visit, Joseph told his brothers who he was, and Pharaoh learned about Joseph’s family. 14After this, Joseph sent for his father Jacob and his whole family, seventy-five in all. 15Then Jacob went down to Egypt, where he and our fathers died. 16Their bodies were brought back to Shechem and placed in the tomb that Abraham had bought from the sons of Hamor at Shechem for a certain sum of money.

17"As the time drew near for God to fulfill his promise to Abraham, the number of our people in Egypt greatly increased. 18Then another king, who knew nothing about Joseph, became ruler of Egypt. 19He dealt treacherously with our people and oppressed our forefathers by forcing them to throw out their newborn babies so that they would die.

20"At that time Moses was born, and he was no ordinary child.[c]For three months he was cared for in his father’s house. 21When he was placed outside, Pharaoh’s daughter took him and brought him up as her own son. 22Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and was powerful in speech and action.

23"When Moses was forty years old, he decided to visit his fellow Israelites. 24He saw one of them being mistreated by an Egyptian, so he went to his defense and avenged him by killing the Egyptian. 25Moses thought that his own people would realize that God was using him to rescue them, but they did not. 26The next day Moses came upon two Israelites who were fighting. He tried to reconcile them by saying, ‘Men, you are brothers; why do you want to hurt each other?’

27"But the man who was mistreating the other pushed Moses aside and said, ‘Who made you ruler and judge over us? 28Do you want to kill me as you killed the Egyptian yesterday?’[d] 29When Moses heard this, he fled to Midian, where he settled as a foreigner and had two sons.

30"After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. 31When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord’s voice: 32’I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.’[e] Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look.

33"Then the Lord said to him, ‘Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground. 34I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free. Now come, I will send you back to Egypt.’[f]

35"This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, ‘Who made you ruler and judge?’ He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush. 36He led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea[g] and for forty years in the desert.

37"This is that Moses who told the Israelites, ‘God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.’[h] 38He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.

39"But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt. 40They told Aaron, ‘Make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who led us out of Egypt—we don’t know what has happened to him!’* 41That was the time they made an idol in the form of a calf. They brought sacrifices to it and held a celebration in honor of what their hands had made. 42But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets:
" ‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
43You have lifted up the shrine of Molech
and the star of your god Rephan,
the idols you made to worship.
Therefore I will send you into exile’[j] beyond Babylon.

44"Our forefathers had the tabernacle of the Testimony with them in the desert. It had been made as God directed Moses, according to the pattern he had seen. 45Having received the tabernacle, our fathers under Joshua brought it with them when they took the land from the nations God drove out before them. It remained in the land until the time of David, 46who enjoyed God’s favor and asked that he might provide a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.[k] 47But it was Solomon who built the house for him.

48"However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men. As the prophet says:
49" ‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
50Has not my hand made all these things?’[l]

51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it."***

 

[Ben_Masada]

Stephen from the book of acts has something to say to you Ben:

Acts 7

Stephen’s Speech to the Sanhedrin

1Then the high priest asked him, “Are these charges true?”
2To this he replied: "Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran. 3’Leave your country and your people,’ God said, ‘and go to the land I will show you.’[a]

9"Because the patriarchs were jealous of Joseph, they sold him as a slave into Egypt. But God was with him 10and rescued him from all his troubles. He gave Joseph wisdom and enabled him to gain the goodwill of Pharaoh king of Egypt; so he made him ruler over Egypt and all his palace.

11"Then a famine struck all Egypt and Canaan, bringing great suffering, and our fathers could not find food. 12When Jacob heard that there was grain in Egypt, he sent our fathers on their first visit. 13On their second visit, Joseph told his brothers who he was, and Pharaoh learned about Joseph’s family. 14After this, Joseph sent for his father Jacob and his whole family, seventy-five in all. 15Then Jacob went down to Egypt, where he and our fathers died. 16Their bodies were brought back to Shechem and placed in the tomb that Abraham had bought from the sons of Hamor at Shechem for a certain sum of money.

17"As the time drew near for God to fulfill his promise to Abraham, the number of our people in Egypt greatly increased. 18Then another king, who knew nothing about Joseph, became ruler of Egypt. 19He dealt treacherously with our people and oppressed our forefathers by forcing them to throw out their newborn babies so that they would die.

20"At that time Moses was born, and he was no ordinary child.[c]For three months he was cared for in his father’s house. 21When he was placed outside, Pharaoh’s daughter took him and brought him up as her own son. 22Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and was powerful in speech and action.

23"When Moses was forty years old, he decided to visit his fellow Israelites. 24He saw one of them being mistreated by an Egyptian, so he went to his defense and avenged him by killing the Egyptian. 25Moses thought that his own people would realize that God was using him to rescue them, but they did not. 26The next day Moses came upon two Israelites who were fighting. He tried to reconcile them by saying, ‘Men, you are brothers; why do you want to hurt each other?’

27"But the man who was mistreating the other pushed Moses aside and said, ‘Who made you ruler and judge over us? 28Do you want to kill me as you killed the Egyptian yesterday?’[d] 29When Moses heard this, he fled to Midian, where he settled as a foreigner and had two sons.

30"After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. 31When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord’s voice: 32’I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.’[e] Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look.

33"Then the Lord said to him, ‘Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground. 34I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free. Now come, I will send you back to Egypt.’[f]

35"This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, ‘Who made you ruler and judge?’ He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush. 36He led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea[g] and for forty years in the desert.

37"This is that Moses who told the Israelites, ‘God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.’[h] 38He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.

39"But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt. 40They told Aaron, ‘Make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who led us out of Egypt—we don’t know what has happened to him!’* 41That was the time they made an idol in the form of a calf. They brought sacrifices to it and held a celebration in honor of what their hands had made. 42But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets:
" ‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
43You have lifted up the shrine of Molech
and the star of your god Rephan,
the idols you made to worship.
Therefore I will send you into exile’[j] beyond Babylon.

44"Our forefathers had the tabernacle of the Testimony with them in the desert. It had been made as God directed Moses, according to the pattern he had seen. 45Having received the tabernacle, our fathers under Joshua brought it with them when they took the land from the nations God drove out before them. It remained in the land until the time of David, 46who enjoyed God’s favor and asked that he might provide a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.[k] 47But it was Solomon who built the house for him.

48"However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men. As the prophet says:
49" ‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
50Has not my hand made all these things?’[l]

51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it."*

This speech was never delivered. Too Christian when Christianity had another 15 years to rise with Paul in antioch. (Acts 11:26)

 

[cthulhubryan]

This speech was never delivered. Too Christian when Christianity had another 15 years to rise with Paul in antioch. (Acts 11:26)

See what I mean?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

**If you don’t follow my logic, yours cannot even be called logic. If the disciples started being called “Christians” as you say, from outsiders, after Paul spent a whole year there, the name ought to be related to what Paul was doing. If Paul had declined Barnabas invitation, the disciples would have continued being called by another name and not Christians. The Logic therefore is that Christians started with Paul and there is no other logic to apply here.

Regarding your question about Christianity with over a billion followers and Judaism with no more than 15 millions, I have a question for you. Do you happen to know how many little stones are there in our planet? Of course not! Billions, trillions, Zillions, impossible to count. But do you happen to know how many precious stones are there in our planet? We don’t know but it’s possible to count. Perhaps no more than 15 millions. Fair enough for a reply? If you didn’t like the answer, don’t ask this kind of question anymore.**

What’s so great about the precious stones you call Jews? Or for that matter, Christians? We’re all trousered apes, and pretty much alike when it’s all said and done. As my old Protestant pastor used to say, “One bunch of sinners is much the same as the next”.

Or to put it another way, if I gave you a letter and asked you to go down to the post office and mail it, then I’ve given you a job to do. But if on the way you decide to sit down in the gutter and think to yourself, “How about that! I’m the chosen one! Of all the people he could have chosen, he chose me!”, then all we end up with is a self centred, egotistical, arrogant little twerp who hasn’t done the job he was supposed to do.

And that’s just what the Jews have done. They weren’t chosen because they were special, but because they were human, like us, and they were supposed to make God known to ALL people. Well, in a way they have, but only because God deigned to become one of their number, in Jesus Christ His Son.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Prophetical Time

In the second vision in Daniel 10, the Prophet refers to three full weeks (Dan.10:2) or 21 days (Dan. 10:13) to bring the unknown value of “y” to the arbitrary value of a year. Hence, 21 years, so that the 70 years of the exile must be fulfilled, according to the injunction
that, since 70 weeks had been decreed, 70 years had to be fulfilled. (Dan. 9:2,24)

Gabriel of 12;

Gematria is a fascinating way of scripture interpretations; Ben many here might be interested in what most non catholics spend alot of time on is the number of the beast 666. how do you interpret this number? Is it Kaiser Neron, or is it Solomon? or another?

King David conquered Jerusalem 1003 b.c a thousand years before Jesus Christ was born around 3 a.d. During the Davidic 1000 year reign, The Babylonians captured Jerusalem, then after 70 years of Babylonian captivity, the Persian Empire captures the Babylonians allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple without a Monarchy.

The first temple was built by King Solomon, the second built by Priests under Ezra and Nehemia, when we get to the last 500 years to 20 b.c we find the temple being built a third time by the false prophet King Herod which gets destroyed what another 70? in 70 a.d. But before this 70 temple destruction Jesus comes on the seen and proclaims the Prophet Isaiah 61:1-2, 58:6 in the synagogue being fulfilled in their hearing and claimed the repentance of Israel because the kingdom is at hand (see Luke4:16-19, Mt.4:12-17)

Now tell me did the Jewish prophets get these prophecies right or wrong along the timeline of the 1000 years and the 70 years for the coming Messiah, the Kingdom of God, the New Covenant promised by Jeremiah and others? or do these timelines speak of another timeline that has not yet passed, or were the Jewish prophets wrong. According to Jesus and Christendom the Prophets got it the 1000 years, and the 70 years right.

How do you view the 1000 years with the 70 years of captivity?

 

[Ben_Masada]

What’s so great about the precious stones you call Jews? Or for that matter, Christians? We’re all trousered apes, and pretty much alike when it’s all said and done. As my old Protestant pastor used to say, “One bunch of sinners is much the same as the next”.

Or to put it another way, if I gave you a letter and asked you to go down to the post office and mail it, then I’ve given you a job to do. But if on the way you decide to sit down in the gutter and think to yourself, “How about that! I’m the chosen one! Of all the people he could have chosen, he chose me!”, then all we end up with is a self centred, egotistical, arrogant little twerp who hasn’t done the job he was supposed to do.

And that’s just what the Jews have done. They weren’t chosen because they were special, but because they were human, like us, and they were supposed to make God known to ALL people. Well, in a way they have, but only because God deigned to become one of their number, in Jesus Christ His Son.

**I knew you would end up with either Greek Mythology or Replacement Theology. You ended up with both. I confess I was enjoying the development but…It’s a pity.

What am I doing here if it is not making the true God known to all people? So much so that what I have been doing can be compared to a tree that has produced fruits. And better than Jesus, I bring the knowledge of God to the Gentiles. Jesus would rather warn his disciples NOT to take the good news to the Gentiles. (Mat. 10:6) **