Prophets after Jesus

[MartinJordan]

Hi,

And the words of Jesus are made known to the people in the Qur’an, which glorifies Jesus as the Messiah who was blessed with nearness to God, and was not accursed by God (i.e. separated from God), which is what both Jews and Christians allege against him, according to their understanding of Deut 21:23 [see Gal 3:13].

This proves that Prophet Muhammad s.a. was the Promised Paraclete, who exonerated Jesus of the insulting charge of being ‘accursed’ made against him, thereby glorifying him.

Peace.

Please. I’m waiting for an example of any Grand Mufti using Bible verses to proclaim Mohammed as the paraclete.

MJ

 

[eddie_too]

john 14:30 can be understood as Jesus telling the apostles that His crucifixion is imminent. that is what the phrase prince of this world is referring to.

Jesus will not be sharing much more because His death and Resurrection will end the intensive training the apostles had been undergoing for the past three years.

the crucifixion is ultimately satan’s vigorous attack on the plans of almighty God.

another point of confusion that, as expected, exists in those who are trying to interpret christian scriptures without believing in or knowing the christian faith is the fact that scripture uses the word world in more than one meaning.

world can be referring to the physical creation that surrounds us. but, it can also be referring to the values of satan, of the fallen human nature or of those who appear successful in worldly terms.

it is impossible for someone who does not believe in the the RCC to correctly understand and interpret the scriptures created by the RCC.

it is tiresome to continually correct the misinterpretations so often propagated on these threads, but we must persevere in that effort so that all souls might know the truth and not be misled by the ignorant or malicious.

 

[rinnie]

Hi,

It was quite clear to me that Jesus was referring to himself as a Paraclete whilst making the prophecy. Hence I said it was a prophecy by a prophet about another prophet who would prophecy.

The Jews were waiting for at least 3 prophets; this is apparent from their questioning of John the Baptist, viz:

• John 1:19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” 20 He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” 21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Eli′jah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the prophet?” And he answered, “No.”

22 They said to him then, “Who are you? Let us have an answer for those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?” 23 He said, “I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way of the Lord,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.” 24 Now they had been sent from the Pharisees. 25 They asked him, “Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither **the ***Christ, nor Eli′jah, nor the prophet?”

Jesus said that John was the Elijah who was to come. He had come in the spirit and power of Elijah. So John’s denial can be taken to mean that he was either denying that he was the same person who was Elijah, for he had come in his likeness, or it can be taken to mean that John was not himself aware that he had fulfilled the prophecy of the return of Elijah.

And Jesus himself was the Christ. It is clear that there was to come one after him, described as ‘the Prophet’. This is understood to be a reference to the Prophet prophecied about in [Deut 18:18].

Apart from ‘the Prophet’, Jesus also prophecied his own second coming. There is no reason why this would not be in the form of another prophet who was to come in the spirit and power of Jesus, just as John the Baptist was the Elijah.

So, we can safely say that at least 2 prophets were expected to come after Jesus.

Peace.

John clearly denies being Elijah in John l:21

I believe John knew exactly who he was.

In the bible Elizabeth was pregnant with Mary. It was predicted John was the forerunner before Christ.

But back to the question. Jesus never said John was Elijah. He said John came in the SPIRIT of Elijah. You have to know how the word Spirit was interpretated.

Spirit meant messeger. John had the same likeness, message. Just like a catholic Priest comes in the Spirit of Christ. The Priest has the same message, the same oneness with Christ in his word in the Church.

Now go back and read what John said. Are you Christ he said NOPE, Elijah Nope, He told you as predicted the voice crying out into the night making way for the Lord. THe forerunner for God.

Now read Deut. Its quite clear who Christ is. I will raise him up. Christ was raised on the 3rd day. As said.

Go back to the Cross, what did Jesus say to the Jews My God My God why have you forsaken ME!! Go back and read Psalms.

My God my God why have you forsaken me, It shows you everything that happened to Christ as predicted. Read it. Everything they did to Jesus. The Messiah our Lord and Savior.

Lord by your cross and ressurection your have saved the world.

 

[rinnie]

john 14:30 can be understood as Jesus telling the apostles that His crucifixion is imminent. that is what the phrase prince of this world is referring to.

Jesus will not be sharing much more because His death and Resurrection will end the intensive training the apostles had been undergoing for the past three years.

the crucifixion is ultimately satan’s vigorous attack on the plans of almighty God.

another point of confusion that, as expected, exists in those who are trying to interpret christian scriptures without believing in or knowing the christian faith is the fact that scripture uses the word world in more than one meaning.

world can be referring to the physical creation that surrounds us. but, it can also be referring to the values of satan, of the fallen human nature or of those who appear successful in worldly terms.

it is impossible for someone who does not believe in the the RCC to correctly understand and interpret the scriptures created by the RCC.

it is tiresome to continually correct the misinterpretations so often propagated on these threads, but we must persevere in that effort so that all souls might know the truth and not be misled by the ignorant or malicious.

I have to disagree with you. Remember how Peter wanted Jesus to deny the Cross. Jesus said stand behind me satan.

THe cross was not satans attack on Christ.

satan offered Christ everything to deny his Father and NOT take up his cross.

RCC teaching is this plain and simple. Christ came to die.

Think of Church every Sunday.

Lord by your cross and ressurecton you have SET US FREE you ARE the Savior of the World.

Jesus died for OUR SIN. It is because of his death and suffering he paid our price in full!!

The Jews were looking for the King, the Savior. They missed it!

 

[rinnie]

By the way, also Jesus told us the prince of this world is the devil!!

Jesus said if the world hates you remember it hated me first. This is not my world anymore then it is yours. This world is the world of the devil. That is why evil people seem to get more and the good gets nothing. Its not your world! If this was the world of Christ there would be no hate,no hunger, no sin!

But I will go before you and prepare and place for you and then come back and take you there and there you will dwell with me in heaven.

No eye has seen, no ear has heard what God has ready for those who love him!!

 

[eddie_too]

i do not believe, nor do i believe that the RCC teaches, that the Romans and Jews responsible for Jesus’ Passion and Death were doing God’s will. they were committing sins of the most grievous and extreme nature through their participation in the Suffering and Death of Jesus.

 

[Dialogues]

Please. I’m waiting for an example of any Grand Mufti using Bible verses to proclaim Mohammed as the paraclete.

MJ

I am not a Sunni; I am an Ahmadi Muslim, so I will give you an Ahmadi source. The second Ahmadiyya Khalifa, the spiritual head of the worldwide movement, wrote a book entitled ‘Introduction to the Study of the Holy Qur’an,’ on page 125 of which he states:

*"… The prophecy also states that when the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide them into all truth, that the book revealed to him will contain no human word, that he will foretell things to come, and that he will glorify Jesus and clear him of all charges.

This prophecy unmistakably applies to the Holy Prophet. It says quite clearly that unless Jesus departs, the Comforter cannot come. From The Acts (3:21-22) it also appears that the Prophet promised in Deuteronomy 18:18 is to appear sometime between the departure of Jesus and his second coming. The Comforter, therefore, is no other that the Promised One of Deuteronomy 18:18." *

Peace.

 

[rinnie]

I am not a Sunni; I am an Ahmadi Muslim, so I will give you an Ahmadi source. The second Ahmadiyya Khalifa, the spiritual head of the worldwide movement, wrote a book entitled ‘Introduction to the Study of the Holy Qur’an,’ on page 125 of which he states:

*"… The prophecy also states that when the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide them into all truth, that the book revealed to him will contain no human word, that he will foretell things to come, and that he will glorify Jesus and clear him of all charges.

This prophecy unmistakably applies to the Holy Prophet. It says quite clearly that unless Jesus departs, the Comforter cannot come. From The Acts (3:21-22) it also appears that the Prophet promised in Deuteronomy 18:18 is to appear sometime between the departure of Jesus and his second coming. The Comforter, therefore, is no other that the Promised One of Deuteronomy 18:18." *

Peace.

There is much truth to what you have said. And yes the conforter did come the Holy Spirt as promised to us by Jesus.

And the Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth through the Holy Catholic Church. The Church and Christ are one.

But Jesus departed from this world, yes as human, but he never left us. He is with us though his Spirit the Holy Spirit.

And you are right the promised one is indeed the Holy Spirit which is also God, which is also Christ which is also the Father.

God from God light from light, true God from true God one in being with the Father. By the Power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary.

Begotten not made!!

God is one, just as Christ is one with God.

True God FROM True God, for OUR sake he was crucified died and buried, He will come AGAIN in glory. Jesus said the Father will glorify me as I have glorified him.

Think about those words. They have to be ONE. Only one God can be glorified!

 

[rinnie]

i do not believe, nor do i believe that the RCC teaches, that the Romans and Jews responsible for Jesus’ Passion and Death were doing God’s will. they were committing sins of the most grievous and extreme nature through their participation in the Suffering and Death of Jesus.

Probally because the RCC does not teach that the Romans or Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus.

You are responsible for it, as I and anyone else who sins.

Jesus came to die for one reason and one reason only. For the forgiveness of Sins.

I don’t believe anyone ever said the Jews and Romans were doing God’s will. The RCC teaches Jesus was doing the will of his Father by is death. Without it we could not be free from sin.

That is why all Salvation comes from Christ.

 

[eddie_too]

so, the jews and the romans were not doing God’s will in torturing and crucifying Jesus.

and, according to rennie, they were not doing satan’s will.

i guess, at least for rennie, they were just following their own wills uninfluenced by satan and his devils.

i prefer to believe that the devils were more than willing to influence the jews and romans and that it was satan’s will that the jews and romans commit the horrible crime of deicide.

i believe strongly that the devil delights in the sins of men and whenever possible acts to encourage and facilitate humans’ sins.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Why would Jesus use the word “Comforter” and “Paraclete” when He could quite decisively use the word “Holy Spirit” to refer to the Holy Spirit, which He did on so many occasions one may lose count?

Is Jesus specifically trying to be vague and confusing?

.

You may look at it as “vague and confusing” but I don’t, Jesus was describing somewhat of the “Job” that the Holy Spirit was going to do in God’s unfolding Plan.

God, Who Is a Trinity, is involved in God’s Plan for mankind, not just the Second Person of the Trinity.

I can’t explain the Trinity even tho I have met Dad, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit and I don’t think that anyone could explain the Trinity even tho many have killed many a tree in attempting to explain what to our limited abilities is unexplainable.

 

[rinnie]

so, the jews and the romans were not doing God’s will in torturing and crucifying Jesus.

and, according to rennie, they were not doing satan’s will.

i guess, at least for rennie, they were just following their own wills uninfluenced by satan and his devils.

i prefer to believe that the devils were more than willing to influence the jews and romans and that it was satan’s will that the jews and romans commit the horrible crime of deicide.

i believe strongly that the devil delights in the sins of men and whenever possible acts to encourage and facilitate humans’ sins.

That is not what I am saying at all. All sin is wrong and not the will of God.

I am saying God came here to die for our sins. The Jews and Romans part played was indeed wrong. But it was not them who killed Jesus it was our sins.

Did you not hear what Jesus told Pilate? He said, do you not know I have the power to release you or have you killed. Jesus said you have NO POWER over me. Only what has been given to you by my Father.

Our sins have nothing to do with the devil. He can tempt us all he wants. He only has power over us if we choose to give it to him. We have free will. Sure the devil delights in sin, it hurts God and separates him from us.

And no it was not Gods will for the Jews and the Romans to torture Jesus. God gave them free will and they choose sin over Christ. God knew this, thats why he had to die to pay for their sin.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Christians make many interpretations of the OT which neither Jesus nor his disciples made.

That’s a very broad brush. In Catholicism you will find things the Jesus nor His Disciples are recorded of saying. However, what the Church teaches is all based on what Jesus and His Disciples taught. The one true Faith, once and for all delivered to the saints.

[bibledrb]Jude 1:3[/bibledrb]

So, you are suggesting that Satan wasn’t there before,

I did not suggest any of this.

Is this rule given to him by the All-Powerful God, and since when did God Almighty lose overall control of the world?

It is a figure of speech to present that those things not of God are ruled by satan.

God Almighty is forever. In His Infinite Wisdom and Power, His plan of Salvation is done in ways only Known to Him. He has in His Mercy, revealed some things to us through His only Son, Jesus Christ (God the Son) and His Holy Spirit (God the Spirit).

Do you claim that there are no sinners among the priesthood in the church?

I did not make such a claim.

Peace.

Adios.

 

[MartinJordan]

I am not a Sunni; I am an Ahmadi Muslim, so I will give you an Ahmadi source. The second Ahmadiyya Khalifa, the spiritual head of the worldwide movement, wrote a book entitled ‘Introduction to the Study of the Holy Qur’an,’ on page 125 of which he states:

*"… The prophecy also states that when the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide them into all truth, that the book revealed to him will contain no human word, that he will foretell things to come, and that he will glorify Jesus and clear him of all charges.

This prophecy unmistakably applies to the Holy Prophet. It says quite clearly that unless Jesus departs, the Comforter cannot come. From The Acts (3:21-22) it also appears that the Prophet promised in Deuteronomy 18:18 is to appear sometime between the departure of Jesus and his second coming. The Comforter, therefore, is no other that the Promised One of Deuteronomy 18:18." *

Peace.

.

So now you are saying you are not from the mainstream Islam. What you state by your leader is too vague quite frankly. And seriously lacking in Biblical exegesis.

MJ

 

[jakasaki]

.

So now you are saying you are not from the mainstream Islam. What you state by your leader is too vague quite frankly. And seriously lacking in Biblical exegesis.

MJ

I knew he was Ahmadi Martin ~

Do you remember our old member(s) Planteen and Paars who both were Ahmadi…???

Well, their posts, thoughts and knowledge are just like Dialogues…

 

[Dialogues]

. So now you are saying you are not from the mainstream Islam.

Never claimed I was a Sunni of some description.

What you state by your leader is too vague quite frankly.

I gave an excerpt that was just enough to satisfy your demand of producing a ‘grand mufti’ who interpreted the Paracelete to be the Prophet Muhammad s.a.

And seriously lacking in Biblical exegesis.

You’d say that about any Muslim scholar who interprets the Bible in a way that is different to what you’d like to see.

It is incidentally what a Jew might say about a Christian exegesis of the Tanakh, especially when it comes to supposed prophecies of the Messiah.

Peace.

 

[Servant19]

Hi,

Prophets make prophecies which are fulfilled. Did your Bab make any fulfilled prophecies?

Here is a link to a newspaper article confirming the clear fulfillment of a prophecy:

flickr.com/photos/engrmhk/3302912161/

The text of the newspaper article is typed in the right hand side column for clarity.

Peace.

Did John the Baptist make any prophecies?

Not all Prophets make recorded prophecies which are written down. The role of the Bab, and the only recorded prophecy He made was to prepare the peoples of the world for the coming of Baha’u’llah.

Baha’u’llah did make several prophecies which have come true. Here is a link:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahá’%C3%AD_prophecies



.

 

[MartinJordan]

Never claimed I was a Sunni of some description.

I gave an excerpt that was just enough to satisfy your demand of producing a ‘grand mufti’ who interpreted the Paracelete to be the Prophet Muhammad s.a.

You’d say that about any Muslim scholar who interprets the Bible in a way that is different to what you’d like to see.

It is incidentally what a Jew might say about a Christian exegesis of the Tanakh, especially when it comes to supposed prophecies of the Messiah.

Peace.

You are side stepping the main discussion. If you really want to involve the Jewish view then this is not the thread. Besides Islam says Jews corrupted their own scriptures. And that is never the Christian point.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Now read Deut. Its quite clear who Christ is. I will raise him up. Christ was raised on the 3rd day. As said.

Hi rinnie

I agree with everything you wrote in that post except for the part I quoted where you seem to imply that Deut 18:18 refers to the resurrected Jesus.

I don’t read it that way at all. He will be raised from amongst the Israelite, as in, He will be elevated from a mere Israelite into a Prophet, which Jesus was, the “raising up” moment being when He saw the dove

That’s my humble understanding for you to kindly look at

.

 

[Servant19]

I am not a Sunni; I am an Ahmadi Muslim, so I will give you an Ahmadi source. The second Ahmadiyya Khalifa, the spiritual head of the worldwide movement, wrote a book entitled ‘Introduction to the Study of the Holy Qur’an,’ on page 125 of which he states:

*"… The prophecy also states that when the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide them into all truth, that the book revealed to him will contain no human word, that he will foretell things to come, and that he will glorify Jesus and clear him of all charges.

This prophecy unmistakably applies to the Holy Prophet. It says quite clearly that unless Jesus departs, the Comforter cannot come. From The Acts (3:21-22) it also appears that the Prophet promised in Deuteronomy 18:18 is to appear sometime between the departure of Jesus and his second coming. The Comforter, therefore, is no other that the Promised One of Deuteronomy 18:18." *

Peace.

Are you saying that this Prophet is Muhammad (PBUH) or Ghulam Ahmad?



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