Prophets after Jesus

[Servant19]

There is quite a lot of difference between over a billion people and seven million - they are just not equal.

That the second person of the Trinity incarnates as human is a Hindu tradition recognized over literally thousands of years - that God can have a Son is pretty well accepted in India (although the exact term may vary - we call them Avatars instead).

The other reason is that Jesus did not make mistakes in any of his pronouncements, although clearly he left a lot of things unsaid.

I don’t think you answered either of my questions openmind

If it is numbers thing, then communism must’ve been absolute truth in the 1970’s

How can numbers equate absolute truth on any subject, unless it is empirically evidenced?

Finally, there are over a billion Muslims to say Jesus was NOT God Incarnate. It is impossible for God to humanise Himself, why would you not believe them?

There’s just no logic to this type of thinking friend…
.

 

[openmind77]

I don’t think you answered either of my questions openmind

If it is numbers thing, then communism must’ve been absolute truth in the 1970’s

Finally, there are over a billion Muslims to say Jesus was NOT God Incarnate. It is impossible for God to humanise Himself, why would you not believe them?

How can numbers equate absolute truth on any subject, unless it is empirically evidenced?

.

Please stay on topic - communism was enforced not a free choice at all.

Numbers of followers do indicate the truth of the belief system. The average human is not some fool to just follow strange beliefs. What millions/billions feel in their heart is more important than so called evidence.

The disbelief of a different sect can be discounted - it just come from pride and loyalty to their own.

If a billion people follow someone of their own freewill and believe him to be Prophet it counts far more than seven million.

 

[eddie_too]

i see the Father’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven all of the time.

i see the Father’s kingdom reigning over the hearts of men all of the time.

God’s kingdom is only available to mankind through Jesus Christ.

God’s will is done only when people follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

RCs do not believe Jesus desired to or attempted to create a utopia. that is a bahai belief.

Jesus did and said nothing that would indicate He intended His kingdom to be of this world.

 

[openmind77]

what do the bahai and the muslims believe is missing from the teachings of Jesus that are essential to men and mankind?

the RC position is that everything that is necessary for man to reach the destiny given to man by his Creator has been provided to us through the life, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

since, RCs believe that in Jesus Christ they have everything they need it makes no sense to them to proclaim the teachings of someone else.

at a minimum, people would have to demonstrate convincingly to a RC that something is missing from the teachings of Jesus Christ before they could possibly consider someone else’s teachings.

since, through Jesus Christ, the RC believes that he or she has access to eternal bliss, those who think RCs should believe something else, to be convincing, have to explain what RCs are missing and why eternal bliss is not the ultimate desire of every human creature.

if something is missing from Jesus, tell us what it is.

if nothing is missing from Jesus, join us in worshipping the Incarnate Word who alone can grant us eternal bliss.

Sorry it is taking me so long to respond to your post, but I wanted to make sure Mr Servant was happy and settled before turning to your question.

There are many things that need to be clarified and added to Jesus’s teachings. The process of teaching of humanity by God will never end, because our knowledge relative to what there is to know about life, God and our relationship with him will always be incomplete needing more Messengers from God to clarify. This is because of the imperfect and incomplete nature of Man and his inability to absorb all knowledge that such Messengers can provide. (This is true also of science - our scientific search and investigation will never be complete).

To list a few things that I would like know from a new Messenger from God:

• There is thread going on right now about Limbo and unbaptized babies - the catholic Church has no definite answer except to leave it to God’s mercy. I don’t believe in Limbo or that any unnbaptized baby will be sent to there or to hell. But wouldn’t you like to know the truth?
• To continue about the after life - a high percentage of Catholic men masturbate regularly - not many confess/repent and in any case repeat the ‘sin’. what percentage of these will end up in enternal hell beacuse of this? (99%?, 80%?, 70%?, 50%?). I believe 0%, but wouldn’t you like to know for sure?
• A high percentage of Catholic women practice birth control without repentance(Similar to question above). Again I believe 0% will go to hell for this but wouldn’t you like to know?
• A 17 year old commits a mortal sin and gets hit by a bus (so no time to repent) - will he go hell for eternity? I would like to know.
• An old man who has never done anything for anyone in his life, but always connfessed/repented mortal sins. He just does a stint in purgatory and then gets to rub shoulders with Pope Paul in heaven? Does not seem right to me - we need clarification.
• Poor people are getting poorer, rich are getting richer. The Pope (as well as the Dalai Lama) have expressed their opinion on this - both have been accused of being Marxists. What is the best solution?
• NASA just dicovered 715 planets which are similar to earth (in addition to those they already knew about). Is there life on these planets? If so, what is their relation to us? What is their relation to the Christ? I would like to know.

There are other questions which are being fought over right now which are too controversial sometimes to even discuss in a civil manner. The world is in a total mess, there seem to be no solutions to many problems.

I wish and hope that God would send a messenger soon and set us all on the right path.

I personally believe this will happen soon in the form of the Return of the Christ.

 

[eddie_too]

none of the knowledge you seek and that were not answered by Jesus are essential to man knowing and achieving His divine destiny.

your curosity is natural, but your questions are non-essential to my salvation.

not having the answers to your questions does nothing to prevent my salvation.

for example, i have no idea what you had for lunch today. Jesus never taught me that. but, knowing what you had to lunch has nothing to do with my salvation.

kind of ludicrous way to explain it? maybe, but maybe you get the point?

 

[eddie_too]

the world is not a total mess in my view.

i know many people who are living peaceful, fulfilling lives full of love and hope and faith.

their lives are far from a mess and they are part of this world.

 

[openmind77]

the world is not a total mess in my view.

i know many people who are living peaceful, fulfilling lives full of love and hope and faith.

their lives are far from a mess and they are part of this world.

I am not sure how many people agree with you - I do not think people dying in Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan of war or in the third world of hunger or in the US for lack of healthcare is a sign of peace and fulfillment.

If there is that much of this complacency amongst everyone then we will soon be in a bigger mess - we and the world will not be around much longer

BTW, I forgot one more item, we need Someone from God to explain the mystery of the Trinity much better (nobody else can just reason through it).

 

[eddie_too]

If there is that much of this complacency amongst everyone then we will soon be in a bigger mess…

what complacency are you speaking about? i never wrote anything about complacency.

if you equate being at peace and acting with love as being complacent, then i completely disagree with your assertion.

being at peace and acting with love are the opposite of being complacent is my assertion.

 

[openmind77]

If there is that much of this complacency amongst everyone then we will soon be in a bigger mess…

what complacency are you speaking about? i never wrote anything about complacency.

if you equate being at peace and acting with love as being complacent, then i completely disagree with your assertion.

being at peace and acting with love are the opposite of being complacent is my assertion.

To imagine we are at peace and acting with love while so many people are suffering so much all over the world (in almost every country including ALL the western world), is definitely a sign of complacency (you should become a hedge fund manager ).

If Jesus were here today, his heart would be bleeding at the mess we are in (btw I deliberately left out any talk of the environment).

 

[eddie_too]

it is your contention that no one can be at peace or acting with love while their is suffering in the world?

i disagree.

i believe that Jesus would be at peace and acting with love if He were herein this world in His glorified body.

it seems nonsensical to me to claim that Jesus would be a victim of a restless soul or would act without love just because there is suffering in the world.

perhaps you could explain why you think Jesus could not be at peace and full of love if He were present in this world in His glorified body (that being the only body He has).

 

[openmind77]

it is your contention that no one can be at peace or acting with love while their is suffering in the world?

i disagree.

i believe that Jesus would be at peace and acting with love if He were herein this world in His glorified body.

it seems nonsensical to me to claim that Jesus would be a victim of a restless soul or would act without love just because there is suffering in the world.

perhaps you could explain why you think Jesus could not be at peace and full of love if He were present in this world in His glorified body (that being the only body He has).

Who said no one can be at peace or acting with love? You can act with love while crying for the person you are helping.

We are talking about the condition of most of the people on earth - which is at the current time deplorable. That you do not care about them and just want to be at peace with yourself and your friends is a sign of complacency or even selfishness.

That is why we urgently need a new Prophet, a new Messenger from God.

Jesus would be at peace AND his heart would be bleeding with compassion and sorrow for the suffering of the masses.

 

[eddie_too]

That you do not care about them and just want to be at peace with yourself and your friends is a sign of complacency or even selfishness.

an interesting if false accusation.

if everyone lived as Jesus taught us to live, the pain and suffering you emphasize would be reduced far behind anything or anyone you could imagine would help.

the fact that you must make terrible accusations up and attribute them to others (even though they are your thoughts and words) to justify your comments should be the first indicator of the value of your comments to me or anyone else.

 

[openmind77]

That you do not care about them and just want to be at peace with yourself and your friends is a sign of complacency or even selfishness.

an interesting if false accusation.

if everyone lived as Jesus taught us to live, the pain and suffering you emphasize would be reduced far behind anything or anyone you could imagine would help.

the fact that you must make terrible accusations up and attribute them to others (even though they are your thoughts and words) to justify your comments should be the first indicator of the value of your comments to me or anyone else.

The fact is that suffering is increasing in the world, it s not decreasing - so something in your thesis is not working correctly. Most people are not in fact living the way Jesus taught us - many are actually blaming the victims of suffering.

This is the reason Someone to lead the world out of this downward spiral is needed urgently.

PS: Please try to learn how to quote in replies - there is big button at the bottom just for it.

 

[eddie_too]

the gist of the most recent posts is related to the question of what is lacking from the teachings of Jesus Christ that is essential to mankind’s redemption and salvation.

so far, nothing has been offered to answer that question.

the teachings of Jesus Christ are sufficient, nothing needs to be added but the human response Jesus asks of each of us.

the one thing God cannot do is replace or even obstruct our free will.

since, many, even hundreds of millions if not billions, human beings have responded to Jesus teachings and have received salvation, it is apparent to all but the most obtuse, that the teachings of Jesus are not the problem.

 

[Dialogues]

Hi,

Christ died

No one checked his vital signs to confirm he was dead.

and was buried,

Not six feet below the ground. That would have constituted some proof of a resurrection, IF it had been the case.

he rose from the dead on the 3rd day in accordance with the Scriptures.

Sleep and death are used interchangeably in a metaphorical way. Why then insist on a literal death? About Lazarus, Jesus himself said that his illness was NOT until death, and he was only ‘asleep’, i.e. unconscious or comatose.

He was ascended into heaven after spending more time with His Apostles.

Had he truly resurrected, there was no reason why he only spent time with his disciples, and even that behind closed doors. Why didn’t he declare himself resurrected to the Romans and Jews? Rather, it was because he escaped death on the cross and was afraid of being captured again.

Christ did not migrate to Kashmir and suffer a natural death.

If you open another thread for this purpose, I’d be happy to discuss it with you. Suffice it to say for now that the lost tribes had settled in Kashmir, and Jesus said his mission was to the lost tribes [Matt 15:24] and that he had other sheep to go to [John 10:16]. There is a thread entitled ‘An Accursed Death?’ which is also somewhat relevant to this discussion.

Peace.

 

[openmind77]

the gist of the most recent posts is related to the question of what is lacking from the teachings of Jesus Christ that is essential to mankind’s redemption and salvation.

so far, nothing has been offered to answer that question.

the teachings of Jesus Christ are sufficient, nothing needs to be added but the human response Jesus asks of each of us.

the one thing God cannot do is replace or even obstruct our free will.

since, many, even hundreds of millions if not billions, human beings have responded to Jesus teachings and have received salvation, it is apparent to all but the most obtuse, that the teachings of Jesus are not the problem.

I never said that teachings of Jesus are a problem. I am just saying they need clarification and additions in this day and age.

From your post I assume you know the answer/solutions to these issues:

• To list a few things that I would like know from a new Messenger from God:
• There is thread going on right now about Limbo and unbaptized babies - the catholic Church has no definite answer except to leave it to God’s mercy. I don’t believe in Limbo or that any unnbaptized baby will be sent to there or to hell. But wouldn’t you like to know the truth?
• To continue about the after life - a high percentage of Catholic men masturbate regularly - not many confess/repent and in any case repeat the ‘sin’. what percentage of these will end up in enternal hell beacuse of this? (99%?, 80%?, 70%?, 50%?). I believe 0%, but wouldn’t you like to know for sure?
• A high percentage of Catholic women practice birth control without repentance(Similar to question above). Again I believe 0% will go to hell for this but wouldn’t you like to know?
• A 17 year old commits a mortal sin and gets hit by a bus (so no time to repent) - will he go hell for eternity? I would like to know.
• An old man who has never done anything for anyone in his life, but always connfessed/repented mortal sins. He just does a stint in purgatory and then gets to rub shoulders with Pope Paul in heaven? Does not seem right to me - we need clarification.
• Poor people are getting poorer, rich are getting richer. The Pope (as well as the Dalai Lama) have expressed their opinion on this - both have been accused of being Marxists. What is the best solution?
• NASA just dicovered 715 planets which are similar to earth (in addition to those they already knew about). Is there life on these planets? If so, what is their relation to us? What is their relation to the Christ? I would like to know.
• What is the mystery of the Trinity? Are they really three persons in ONE Person?
• Lets not even talk about the environment

We need a new Prophet or Messenger from God to solve these urgent problems.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Hi,

No one checked his vital signs to confirm he was dead.

Not six feet below the ground. That would have constituted some proof of a resurrection, IF it had been the case.

Sleep and death are used interchangeably in a metaphorical way. Why then insist on a literal death? About Lazarus, Jesus himself said that his illness was NOT until death, and he was only ‘asleep’, i.e. unconscious or comatose.

Had he truly resurrected, there was no reason why he only spent time with his disciples, and even that behind closed doors. Why didn’t he declare himself resurrected to the Romans and Jews? Rather, it was because he escaped death on the cross and was afraid of being captured again.

If you open another thread for this purpose, I’d be happy to discuss it with you. Suffice it to say for now that the lost tribes had settled in Kashmir, and Jesus said his mission was to the lost tribes [Matt 15:24] and that he had other sheep to go to [John 10:16]. There is a thread entitled ‘An Accursed Death?’ which is also somewhat relevant to this discussion.

Peace.

Again, God the Son is not subject to your demands or conditions.

My Church witnessed Christ’s life, death, burial, resurrection and ascension. An unbroken line of witnesses.

The other sheep is us, the Gentiles.

 

[Dialogues]

I don’t think we should quarrel about which of the two - Bahuallah or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a greater Prophet, or was a Prophet at all.

Both can’t be right.

I think the trueness of a Prophet is guaged by the number of followers he keeps over time especially after his death. Ghulam Ahmad has about 10 million worldwide, Bahauallah has around 7 million.

It was reported that there were 10 million Ahmadi Muslims in the 1980’s. Numbers have increased since then. However, that someone has followers is not in itself evidence that he was true in his claims. The followers of Jesus were persecuted for about 3 centuries before Constantine became a Christian, when their fate changed, with Christianity becoming the ‘official state religion’.

Most people may believe that they are the only smart people in the world and everyone else is a gullible fool, but this is just not true - the average human being is quite smart and discerning - a false Prophet will not withstand the test of time. I think both of them qualify to be Prophets, although not at the same level as Muhammad.

I agree no prophet is at the same level as Muhammad s.a., but I disagree that Mirza Hussain Ali was a prophet at all.

However, Jesus still stands apart from all three - Jesus was a Son of God while others were just Prophets.

There are three degrees of relationship with God. The first, and lowest is that of a Master-Servant relationship. Then comes the Father-Son type of relationship, in which the said person is a beloved of God. This is an intermediate type of relationship. The highest and closest relationship is that of intimate and loving Friendship with God, which is the type of relationship that Muhammad s.a. had.

Peace.

 

[eddie_too]

openmind

the answers to your questions are in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the citations found in it. your questions simply demonstrate your lack of knowledge and understanding of the RCC and its faith. this is not a condemnation of you. it is simply a recognition of your current state of knowledge and understanding.

the problem is that to understand the fullness of RC teaching one must not only have read or been instructed in them, one must also believe them.

wisdom, knowledge and understanding are all gifts of the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit is received in to a human being’s soul first at baptism and subsequently when a person receives the other six sacraments while in the state of grace.

mere human wisdom, knowledge and understanding do exist, but they are different in both nature and scope from the gifts of wisdom, knowledge and understanding received from the Holy Spirit.

 

[openmind77]

openmind

the answers to your questions are in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the citations found in it. your questions simply demonstrate your lack of knowledge and understanding of the RCC and its faith. this is not a condemnation of you. it is simply a recognition of your current state of knowledge and understanding.

the problem is that to understand the fullness of RC teaching one must not only have read or been instructed in them, one must also believe them.

wisdom, knowledge and understanding are all gifts of the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit is received in to a human being’s soul first at baptism and subsequently when a person receives the other six sacraments while in the state of grace.

mere human wisdom, knowledge and understanding do exist, but they are different in both nature and scope from the gifts of wisdom, knowledge and understanding received from the Holy Spirit.

Sorry, my mistake. I did not know that the Catechism talked about the relation of the Christ to ETs or how to solve the world’s problem of inequality or what percentage of masturbators are going to hell (exact figure not needed, just ball park - more than half?) or if all unbaptized babies will be saved.