Prophets after Jesus

[cmodrmac]

"Have you ever considered that there are some sick people out there that would proclaim anything. They are either sick, or want to make a lot of money and say they are a prophet.
Jesus was not a prophet he was the Son of God, a big difference.

The Mental Hospital is full of people who think they are someone else. "

what a mean spirited comment to a very straightforward and legitimate question-because one disagrees with your position that does not equal mental illness-I assume that the writer of the above quote would put all Bahai’s and Mormons in a sanitarium till they convert

The Bahai are a peace loving sect that has done a lot of good in the world-Mormons have contributed to America and many of our business leaders belong to the LDS

OH by the way all the Muslims by the above definition are mentally ill?

the daughters of Philip I believe had the gift of prophecy they lived after the death of Jesus

 

[daler]

"
what a mean spirited comment to a very straightforward and legitimate question-because one disagrees with your position that does not equal mental illness-I assume that the writer of the above quote would put all Bahai’s and Mormons in a sanitarium till they convert

The Bahai are a peace loving sect that has done a lot of good in the world-Mormons have contributed to America and many of our business leaders belong to the LDS

OH by the way all the Muslims by the above definition are mentally ill?

the daughters of Philip I believe had the gift of prophecy they lived after the death of Jesus

cm,
. What a kind and cordial thing to say. Thank you for defending the rights of people to believe what it is that they believe, whoever they are. It encourages people to come to the forum and talk to each other freely.

. I grew up on an Indian Reservation where the original inhabitants of the land were not allowed (by law!) to practice their own religion…

 

[daler]

Yes you are correct.

Yes, the people of Mecca used to prevent the Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a. from performing the hajj, and now the people of Mecca prevent Ahmadi Muslims from performing the hajj.

History repeats itself.

Peace.

Dialogues,
. I was not aware of this. Very troubling, and sorry to hear it.

. There is always something about having to swim against the stream which strengthens people in the end, you know. Abraham destroyed His father’s idols. Jesus entered the Temple and kicked over the money changers’ tables. Muhammad (PBUH) returned to Mecca and destroyed the idols once again.

. Yes. History repeats…

 

[Servant19]

it is much more reasonable to believe the testimonies of eyewitnesses to an event than to believe the testimonies of people who lived four hundred years (like mohammed) or 1800 years (like bahaullah) after an event.

this is especially true when the later testimonies are self-serving to the those testifying.

Hi Eddie, Baha’u’llah is not a historical testimonial writer.

If, lets say (use your own imagination) Baha’u’llah was in fact, the Father, would He or would He not know what is the importance of Jesus’ Resurrection?

Of course He would!

His Revelation is on that level of authority, and the fruits of His Revelation are testament to that.

Look at the photo in my signature. Not a bad temple to build to magnify the name of God for all peoples of the world, no matter what religion you are. That is true unity, and the true fruits of Godliness…

.

 

[Mike_SoCal]

Prophecy ended with the Apostles or in the first century.
At that point the NT scriptures were in written form. The Bible was completed in the 4th century. With the finished word of God the Prophecy time ended.

So call prophets after the Bible are easily discredited because their teachings are often in opposition to the Bible. Mohammad for instance does not view Jesus as the Son of God or the Savior. Joseph Smith taught that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are separate gods.

 

[Oska2]

Just for clarification: Did Jesus or anyone else ever say there wouldn’t be another prophet AFTER Jesus/the messiah?

It’s confusing to me, because it seems that several prophets in the Bible claim that there will not be a prophet after them, only to be followed by another! So why would it be so impossible for Christians to accept that perhaps God sent Muhammad or Joseph Smith or Bahaullah to clarify his word?

The Old testament was based on an old covenant. The prophets of old prophesied of a King of righteousness who would rule God’s people. In fact, the dating we use today emanates from the prophecies.
The book of Hebrews in the Bible of Superiority of Christ over angels, over Abraham, over Moses. His coming ushered a new era where God would dwell among the people (Emmanuel). The Holy spirit would indwell humankind and be the guide to righteousness.

It thus would be in error to suppose that God would send another prophet with a different message. In fact, Mohammed being an orphan was brought up by his uncle who was a
Christian.
Narrated 'Aisha(R): Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3
Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters.

However, a christian can have a prophetic message to give to the church in form of a warning, or a counsel.

 

[Dialogues]

… It thus would be in error to suppose that God would send another prophet with a different message.

It is not a message different to that of the Biblical prophets. It is in line with their teachings. Hence, neither Jews nor Muslims believe in trinity and vicarious atonement, as no prophet ever issues such teachings. Islam simply differs with those creeds which Christians developed over the centuries which differ from the teachings of the prophets.

In fact, Mohammed being an orphan was brought up by his uncle who was a
Christian.

The uncle [Abu Taalib] who brought the Prophet [pbuh] up was a polytheist like most other Arabs were. Waraqa was not an uncle of the Prophet pbuh, but a cousin of his wife.

Peace.

 

[eddie_too]

how does anyone know that the messages of bahaullah and mohammed come from our Creator?

they could just as easily come from evil spirits.

why believe that bahaullah and mohammed were messengers of almighty God?

 

[Servant19]

how does anyone know that the messages of bahaullah and mohammed come from our Creator?

they could just as easily come from evil spirits.

why believe that bahaullah and mohammed were messengers of almighty God?

Good question Eddie.

1. The Person of Baha’u’llah caused thousands of people to sacrifice their lives in service towards Him. Many would shave their beards (a humiliating act in the Middle East at that time) to make brooms in irder that they may sweep the dust from the ground on which He walked. They removed the dust and sprinkled it onto the local river saying that it is too holy to be trodden on by others. These sorts of acts were voluntary, not coerced.

One can conclude therefore that He was more than just a special, holy man. People don’t leave their children and wives to do these sorts of things for the rest of their lives.

1. His Revelation. It’s rapidity, the conditions of its recitation and the beauty of its prose. Thousands of verses revealed within hours. No man, I repeat, no man can reveal a newspaper article or even an biography of their own lives, of such length in such a short time.
2. The wonderful fruits of His teachings. The second most widespread religion on the planet, one community, united, and ensured of full unity for its entire course.
   The community not united by superficial names and agendas but by Spirit and the righteous fruits of the Spurit manifested by action.

Again, look at the photos of the Bahai Temples and know that you (whatever religion you are) will be embraced in these Temples to pray and worship in your chosen way, reciting the Scriptures of any religion you are adhering to.

1. His miracles, although this is not emphasised at all, but for some it holds some value, especially those from a Christian background.
2. This: youtu.be/priSx7SvZ5Q

Please let me know if you wish me to add more to the list, there are plenty more reasons…



How do these differ to reasons why Jesus was receiving a Revelation from God?

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[Matthew_Light]

People don’t leave their children and wives to do these sorts of things for the rest of their lives.

I’d like to clarify that Baha’u’llah didn’t ask people to leave their wives and children! Marriage and family are taught to be the foundation of society in the Baha’i Faith.

Servant19 was simply stating people’s intense love and devotion to Baha’u’llah, which also included people of other religions who nonetheless considered him to be a holy soul.

 

[jakasaki]

how does anyone know that the messages of bahaullah and mohammed come from our Creator?

they could just as easily come from evil spirits.

why believe that bahaullah and mohammed were messengers of almighty God?

There’s an interesting hadith in the Islamic books which states that:

“the bell is the tool of satan”

And then there is another hadith when the prophet of Islam was asked how he receives his revelations.

He stated that sometimes he receives a revelation with the ringing of the bell in his head…

 

[eddie_too]

Jesus was not receiving a revelation from God.

Jesus is God.

why believe this? because God has given me the gift of theological virtue of faith.

there are also other facts that supply good reasons for believing Jesus is God Himself.

one fact is that Jesus’ body did not undergo the corruption brought to mankind by death. His body rose from the dead in a glorified state.

another fact is that if Jesus is not God, i have not received atonement for my sins.

Jesus frees me from the slavery of sin and ONLY God Himself can do that.

if Jesus is not God, then i am still in my sins and that separates me from my Creator.

another fact is that once the salvation of souls and the redemption of mankind has been accomplished, there is nothing greater to be known.

that is why there are not prophets after Jesus. we have been saved and redeemed through the Cross of Jesus Christ.

i really do not know why being saved and redeemed is not enough for some people.

 

[eddie_too]

the bahai doctrine that all religions are equal is one i totally reject as irrational.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

No.

Are you referring to the wound that caused death?

Nope. I was talking about the field-dressing phase.

You are alleging it, but it is a false allegation. There is no grasping at straws on my part.

You are in denial.

It’s not the only translation to use the word gush:

John 19:34 (VOICE) Instead, one soldier took his spear and pierced His abdomen, which brought a gush of blood and water.

Sure. I can show you many, many translations of the Quran that you’d think are incorrect, too.

The word ‘sudden’ also indicates pressure in the vessels due to a pumping heart.

Now, why would anyone assert something like this?
“Sudden” means a pumping heart?

They were not physicians.

Ahhh, so no one ever died unless a physician was there?
Here’s a hint: they saw more death than most physicians will ever see.
They were responsible for more killing than Al Queda.
They knew what dead looks like.

They saw his head bowed down, and presumed him dead.

Absurd assertion.

They appear not to have made the connection with the drink he received, immediately after which this happened, indicating there was an opiate/sedative in the drink.

Or, perhaps, the fact that he was being crucified.

From wikipedia:
Medical authorities W. D. Edwards, W. J. Gabel and F. E. Hosmer offered the following analysis in regard to the New Testament Greek and the medical data:

Jesus of Nazareth underwent Jewish and Roman trials, was flogged, and was sentenced to death by crucifixion. The scourging produced deep stripelike lacerations and appreciable blood loss, and it probably set the stage for hypovolemic shock, as evidenced by the fact that Jesus was too weakened to carry the crossbar (patibulum) to Golgotha. At the site of crucifixion, his wrists were nailed to the patibulum and, after the patibulum was lifted onto the upright post (stipes), his feet were nailed to the stipes. The major pathophysiologic effect of crucifixion was an interference with normal respirations. Accordingly, death resulted primarily from hypovolemic shock and exhaustion asphyxia. Jesus’ death was ensured by the thrust of a soldier’s spear into his side. Modern medical interpretation of the historical evidence indicates that Jesus was dead when taken down from the cross.

Desperate to be saved from death is what Jesus was, as he was praying earnestly and in anguish in the garden of olives, or gethsemane according to another gospel.

No, not from death; He knew that that would be overcome.
The torturing was what He was despairing over.

I didn’t say the blood came out in spurts,

But that’s been your argument all along.

I guess when confronted with an inconsistancy, you just deny that you said what you said.

The word gush is used by christian translators; it is not my own invention.

Peace.

Fine. I’ll remember this if we ever get into a discussion of the Quran and you discount translations made by Islamic translators.

 

[Servant19]

the bahai doctrine that all religions are equal is one i totally reject as irrational.

Baha’is don’t see all religions as equal and one Eddie.

Bahaullah teaches that all the major global religions come from the one and the same source…God.



.

 

[Servant19]

There’s an interesting hadith in the Islamic books which states that:

“the bell is the tool of satan”

And then there is another hadith when the prophet of Islam was asked how he receives his revelations.

He stated that sometimes he receives a revelation with the ringing of the bell in his head…

Take your chosen hadiths with a pinch of salt then…your conclusions are far far far from correct

.

 

[jakasaki]

Take your chosen hadiths with a pinch of salt then…your conclusions are far far far from correct

.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Ok, thanks

So if Jesus transcends the physical, why do you insist on a “physical” resurrection

Because Jesus insists on it.
Do you deny that God can do this if He so desires?

The proof is that no religious Scripture in history talks about a soul appearing willingly in the physical realm.

You don’t believe that angels have ever manifested themselves physically?

God works through His physical creation.

You’re starting to sound very gnostic.

Ghosts, it was my understanding are “visible spirits” thereby contradicting the concept of invisibility, and availability to any physical sense for that matter.

Yes. Why, it’s almost like God can do miracles.

 

[Servant19]

Jesus was not receiving a revelation from God.

Jesus is God.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus…"

• 1 Tim 2:5

So I guess the Bible is wrong?

why believe this? because God has given me the gift of theological virtue of faith.

Are you implying that my virtue of faith is borne out of evil and invalid?

there are also other facts that supply good reasons for believing Jesus is God Himself.

one fact is that Jesus’ body did not undergo the corruption brought to mankind by death. His body rose from the dead in a glorified state.

Wonderful! How does that translate to your communion with God?

another fact is that if Jesus is not God, i have not received atonement for my sins.

Jesus frees me from the slavery of sin and ONLY God Himself can do that.

Again, wonderful, that I believe also, but I am more interested in being more selfless. I am more interested in societal salvation now. I am happy for my soul to go to hell if it means that the Holy Spirit enables me to contribute towards a sustainable end to human suffering forever.
if Jesus is not God, then i am still in my sins and that separates me from my Creator.

another fact is that once the salvation of souls and the redemption of mankind has been accomplished, there is nothing greater to be known.

Jesus’ first coming never promised a redemption for all of mankind…

that is why there are not prophets after Jesus. we have been saved and redeemed through the Cross of Jesus Christ.

i really do not know why being saved and redeemed is not enough for some people.

Its not enough, because, in God, “I” DO NOT MATTER…only YOU do…I will happily give up my SOUL, not my human life on earth, but MY SOUL for others to see no more suffering forevermore…



.

 

[jakasaki]

Take your chosen hadiths with a pinch of salt then…your conclusions are far far far from correct

.

Sahih Muslim:

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: **The bell is the musical instrument of the Satan. **

Sahih Musim

(Book #024, Hadith #5279)

'A’isha reported that Harith b. Hisham asked Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him): How does the the wahi (inspiration) come to you?

**He said: At times it comes to me like the ringing of a bell and that is most severe for me **and when it is over I retain that (what I had received in the form of wahi), and at times an Angel in the form of a human being comes to me (and speaks) and I retain whatever he speaks. (Book #030, Hadith #5765)