Proposition 85 in California

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Andruschak

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Coming from a liberal Unitarian Universalist spirituality into the Catholic Church has caused some problems. One year ago I would have had no problem voting “no” on California’s ballot measure 85. I am not a registered Democrat or Republican, but a registered Libertarian:eek:

In fact, I would probably have voted “no” again today were it not for Cardinal Mahoney’s letter to the faithful. In the spirit of obediance, I voted “yes”. I type this at 8:20 PM, with the final ballot results not yet out. 😦
 
Im definitely not against parental notification, but the statute we have down here in Florida is targeted at physicians, and not the rest of us medical (paramedics).

So, as paramedics, we operate by law underneath an MD’s license as our medical director.

So, when administering medications to young teens, we usually use the USDOT standard of implied consent if a parent/guardian is not available. However, many medications we give have harmful, if not permenent effects to a fetus. Amioderone for example, Lasix, Bretylium, Procainamide ect. Heck, even cardioverting a pregnant teen can knock the fetal rhythm into Asystole, not to mention giving Verced or Morphine before that.

We really just treat the mother and not worry about the fetus because the mother is the host for the fetus, and if she dies, the fetus goes with her.

Now, there are several very strong legal (and medical) opinions under this law that paramedics cannot administer medications that are known to have serious/fatal effects on fetuses, unless a parent is given full knowledge and then gives consent.

The logic is that the way the Law is worded encompasses procedures and/or medications that approach putting the life of the fetus in serious danger. That way, MDs trying to skirt around it by performing legal but unecessary procedures that, while are not intended, to kill the fetus, do so by severe side-effect. Then they just claim “oops, my bad”.

Just last week i treated a 19 week pregnant teen riding with her boyfreind who crashed head-on into a Semi. Had to rapid sequence intubate her with Succinylcholine and Verced, and eventually she fell into VTACH and we have to shock the living daylights out of her. Is it a surprise that the baby had no electrical heart rhythm in the ER? not really. Giving rounds of Amio, Epi, lidocaine and shocking…

technically, i may have violated Florida law. i may not have. i wish the Legislatures would do a batter job of writing laws.
 
When I found out that my 12 year old daughter could get someone from her school to take her to a doctor to get an abortion without my knowledge I flipped out!:mad: Pick your adjective: aghast, mortified, incensed, outraged, well–you get the picture. This proposition would make sure that I am informed. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I am at a loss as to how anyone could vote against it. I applaud you for your obedience and I encourage you to pray for guidence in understanding why the Church so strongly opposes abortion. See Psalm 139: 13-16 for some Biblical guidence.

I don’t know if you see Breen’s political cartoons in the paper but he had a good one today. It was of a young girl in a doctors office exclaiming " I’m a minor and I’m pregnant" to which the doctor replies " Whew! I thought you had a headache and wanted aspirin! Theres a ton of parental notification paperwork on that…" There was a planned parenthood sign on the door.

Even if you were not against abortion, how could a parent just “look the other way” on such an important issue with their child?? I mean, wouldn’t be my job as a parent to decide what is best for my minor child? Rather than my minor child (who might be in a state of panic), a school nurse, and a doctor at an abortion clinic. The current law is ridiculous, IMHO. Yes, I realize, as the commercials indicated, that some girls live in fear of abusive parents and can’t face the beating that they would take if they told their abusive parents they were pregnant. Well, folks let’s enact laws to take care of abused kids, not have laws that would take away my right to know that my child is getting an abortion.

I am really eager to see what happens with this proposition. I think that there are more abortions in California than any other state (not sure on that though). I’m praying on this one!
 
wow BioCatholic, I am surprised you dare to call yourself a Catholic. Using the dehumanizing term FETUS for the unborn child? Its a BABY. If the mother dies, the BABY dies as well.
 
jediliz said:
wow BioCatholic, I am surprised you dare to call yourself a Catholic. Using the dehumanizing term FETUS for the unborn child? Its a BABY. If the mother dies, the BABY dies as well.
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Im using medical terminology that is approprite for the situation. EMS Medical protocols ALWAYS call for treating the mother and attempting to save her life.
 
jediliz said:
wow BioCatholic, I am surprised you dare to call yourself a Catholic. Using the dehumanizing term FETUS for the unborn child? Its a BABY. If the mother dies, the BABY dies as well.
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Let’s not get nasty or self-righteous here. BioCatholic did not express any real disregard for human life here, or any sentiments which contradict Catholic teaching, and is therefore welcome to identify as a Catholic. Use of professional jargon does not constitute an offense against humanity, especially when it is clear that BioCatholic recognizes the personhood of an unborn child.
 
LittleRose said:
Let’s not get nasty or self-righteous here. BioCatholic did not express any real disregard for human life here, or any sentiments which contradict Catholic teaching, and is therefore welcome to identify as a Catholic. Use of professional jargon does not constitute an offense against humanity, especially when it is clear that BioCatholic recognizes the personhood of an unborn child.
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Speaking of name calling…I am a member of the APWU, American Postal Workers Union. Their recommendation was vote Democrat and “no” on 85. I didn’t, so technically I am a “SCAB!” 😦
 
Andruschak said:
Speaking of name calling…I am a member of the APWU, American Postal Workers Union. Their recommendation was vote Democrat and “no” on 85. I didn’t, so technically I am a “SCAB!” 😦
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As a California teacher, I almost always voted against what my union said I should do, too, including the first time this was on the ballot. (CTA takes a pretty dim view of Prop 85 as well.) If I were still a Calif. resident, I could have voted for it again! I don’t know what name they would have had for me, though. 🙂
 
Andruschak said:
Coming from a liberal Unitarian Universalist spirituality into the Catholic Church has caused some problems. One year ago I would have had no problem voting “no” on California’s ballot measure 85. I am not a registered Democrat or Republican, but a registered Libertarian:eek:

In fact, I would probably have voted “no” again today were it not for Cardinal Mahoney’s letter to the faithful. In the spirit of obediance, I voted “yes”. I type this at 8:20 PM, with the final ballot results not yet out. 😦
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I voted yes on this.
 
It looks like it is back to the drawing board on this one. The website listed above shows the proposition was rather decisively defeated. The voting pattern is thought provoking.
 
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