Pros and Cons of Mormonism

[holdencaulfield]

Pro: You can have your own planet, procreate and have spirit children after you die.

Con: That planet and your wife or wives, children could well be in hell

Didn’t Satan say something about people being gods to trick Adam and Eve? Oh yes of course.

“For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:5)

It seems like Mormons are doing the exact thing that Satan told Adam and Eve to do. That’s very interesting.

Is it just me or do the Mormons believe in polytheism? Didn’t God say something about how He is the Only God? Oh yes.

“You shall have no other gods before me.” (Deuteronomy 5:6)

Wow that’s interesting, it seems like the BoM is in direct contradiction of the Bible. I think St. Paul also said something about the evils of polytheism.

“Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize.” (Colossians 2:18)

Let your conscience be your guide.

 

[J_C]

Okay, back at the desk! The most frequently cited supposed “failed prophecy” of Joseph Smith is the following:

zerinus

thank you z, sorry I am late getting here but I had a social appointment this evening that kept me busy.

I will study this in my copy of D&C over the next day or two. If I have a question I hope I can ask it of you.

 

[holdencaulfield]

thank you z, sorry I am late getting here but I had a social appointment this evening that kept me busy.

I will study this in my copy of D&C over the next day or two. If I have a question I hope I can ask it of you.

Why do all you people continue to fall into the lies of Mormonism? Polytheism? Is this a sin or what?

 

[J_C]

Why do all you people continue to fall into the lies of Mormonism? Polytheism? Is this a sin or what?

thank you for the concern but there is no chance i could ever become mormon, or anything else but Catholic.

I see no reason to shy away from understanding the mormon underpinnings. Because I recently had gotten to know a particular young mormon man who married a young Catholic girl who got herself baptized mormon because the boy would have her no other way, which I spoke of breifly in another thread, I would llike to know how they piece things together to conclude that mormonism is the true religion.

Off and on over the past few months of reading here i have understood z to be an expert on the mormon religion, and so when qu4estion arose about the meaning of Jonah which he he responded, it led to my question about J Smtih prophosies which z was kind enough to answer even though I had earlier made a disparaging sidewise comment about him that was u;ncalled for, for which I apoligize to him, and express my appreciation for his working with me on this. I have no animosity toward mormons at all. though I distrust the ones who pretend to be something else or who disguise themselves, and it is obvious z is not of this type. He is upfront and proud of his religion, as we are ours, and tho we will battle each other for the hearts and minds of our friends and families there is no reason we cannot negotiate for better battlefield conditions.

meantime I will take more time in typing and try to make fewer syntactical mistakes, I promise.

 

[holdencaulfield]

thank you for the concern but there is no chance i could ever become mormon, or anything else but Catholic.

Oh good. I’m just tired of having to hear so many of their lies on this site. However I feel compelled to answer because it strengthens my own Catholic faith. :irish2:

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

These are false “Cons”. If you were serious about finding the truth about Mormonism, first of all you would not come here to look for it. Secondly, you wouldn’t be posting this thread. That is like a Moslem trying to find the truth of Catholicism by posting a thread about the Pros and Cons of the Catholic Church on a Protestant Evangelical website! How far do you think he would get?

zerinus

If i were to ask you for for your honest advice, and you gave it to me, Zer, and then my response was, “That’s not good advice!” then i should think you would be justified in replying, “If you did not want my opinion, then why did you ask for it?”

For me to argue with those who give me that for which i ask would be rude and unkind:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.*(1 Corinthians 13:4-8)*Regarding your criticism that this is the wrong place to ask about Mormonism, i find that you are here, and so are other Mormons. Even if only one person speaks the truth and the rest speak lies, i trust that the Spirit of God, and the reason and wisdom He has given me, will not fail to make this clear to me.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

as a con you would have to list the amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders. there are regularly scheduled interviews of various types in which you are expected to let LDS leaders know exactly what you have been doing. you will not see requests for volunteers in any ministerial functions. you will instead see assignments. every new member can expect to be given callings. while you can turn down a calling in LDS teaching that rejects direct revelation from God. Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. if you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example. you will be directed to give your time and talent in the specific ways and amounts that the local leaders dictate. your monetary contribution will be expected to be 10% plus monthly offerings for the needy as a minimum.

in exchange that is how you get the social safety net.other members will be directed to help those in need and the funds will be available because others were directed to give in those set amounts and the local functions are all performed without monetary compensation. if you are “called” to be the finance clerk you are expected to perform that duty for free regardless of how long it takes.

Thank you for your sincere advice, Majick. It sounds like Communism.



**Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros**

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/sound_sorting/all/images/checkmark.jpg

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

• They white wash their religious history in order to produce an image of persecuted righteousness. Which for me, is a form of lying.
• They believe polygamy is a divine institution of God. Though they no longer practice it, the defend it, whereas Christians see this practice as immoral.
• The truth of mormonism if founded on a testimony of their BoM and their founder, Joseph Smith. The truth of Christianity is based on Christ.
• Their secret temple ceremony (endowment) was once, word for word, the same as a Freemason ceremony of the same period. They have since changed the wording of the ceremony.
• False prophets: Previous mormon prophets have taught false doctrines, these include: Adam is God, humans with dark skin bear the Mark of Cain, blood atonement (some sins must be atoned by blood). Current mormons of course do not believe these to be “truths” about mormonism. That does not change the fact that this something one of their prophets taught as “truth”.
• Smith’s translation of the Book of Abraham has been proven to be a sham – another false prophet
• Smith once “translated” some chicken scratch writing on a pair of buried and “found” plates. This was people of his time playing a joke on him. He didn’t recognize the scam that was being pulled on him and he translated their chicken scratches using his “prophetic” abilities (another false prophet)
• The mormon church hierarchy does not allow for discussion within its membership. Google “September Six”. con: suppression of dialog within the church itself
• mormons have many unusual beliefs about God that you won’t be told about by mormons until after you have joined their church…they don’t want to scare you off…they call this practice “milk before meat”. One has been mentioned (men can become gods). Also, there is God the Father has a tangible body of flesh and bone, God lives on a planet near the star Kolob, God has at least one wife “heavenly Mother” (google it). She is so holy that she is not described in any scripture and she is not worshipped, there are many gods ruling over their own worlds, Jesus and Satan are brothers to each other and to us all, Jesus was conceived by God the Father and Mary via sexual intercourse, the Garden of Eden was in Missouri, USA,
• expectations placed on you by the mormon church (you’ll have to decide if these are pros or cons for yourself)…personal “worthiness” every year with a bishop where a local mormon authority inquires about your private life, religious and social activities, 10% tithing (already mentioned), give up the use of alcohol/tobacco/coffee/tea, you will receive “callings” which are work assignments (this is the time consumer that has been mentioned), unquestioning obedience to mormon church leaders (see above suppression of dialog).
• to the social network - it is a very good network,but it is only there for active mormons…Christ taught that we should reach out to those not like us…con: exlusiveness

Wow! That is a lot. I did not add your pros, as they were already in the list. You appear to have much knowledge and i’m wondering if it is from firsthand experience. Were you once a Mormon, Rebecca?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      *]They believe polygamy is a divine institution of God.
      *]The truth of mormonism is not based on Christ.
      *]Their secret temple ceremony (endowment) was once, word for word, the same as a Freemason ceremony of the same period.
      *]False prophets: Previous mormon prophets have taught false doctrines, these include: Adam is God, humans with dark skin bear the Mark of Cain, blood atonement (some sins must be atoned by blood).
      *]Smith’s translation of the Book of Abraham has been proven to be a sham.
      *]Smith once “translated” some chicken scratch writing on a pair of buried and “found” plates. This was people of his time playing a joke on him (another example of a false prophet).
      *]The mormon church hierarchy does not allow for discussion within its membership. Google “September Six”.
      *]Mormons have many unusual beliefs about God that you won’t be told about by mormons until after you have joined their church–they don’t want to scare you off. They call this practice “milk before meat”. One has been mentioned (men can become gods).
      *]to the social network - it is a very good network,but it is only there for active mormons. Christ taught that we should reach out to those not like us.
      http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_th..._1509191_excellent_with_checkmark_and_pen.jpg

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Well, the recent solicitation for donations to Catholic Answers to fight the Mormon threat has brought me here.
I am a LDS and a former Catholic. If I was ever convinced that the CoJCoLDS is not God’s church, I would be Catholic again in a heartbeat. I left Catholicism a little ignorant of what I had as a Catholic. When I recognized this I attempted to purge this ignorance as best I could.
Surely I am BIASED, but I will offer a few things.

• Properly understood LDS theology is Biblical theology. I personally have found the systematic theology contained in Ostler’s Exploring Mormon Thought to be the best exposition on what LDS can (and perhaps should) believe.
• The coming forth of the BOM is not explainable via naturalistic means. There are numerous problems with the BOM that have been used to discredit it, but on the whole I believe the answers to the problems and the positive evidences weight strongly in favor of the BOM. As a Catholic I would need to embrace “the devil did it” theory.
• Early Christian history offers much reason to see an “Apostasy of Authority” and to see a restoration of various doctrines found within the CoJCoLDS. The most import doctrines IMO being deification and a rejection of creation ex nihilo (which has profound impacts upon free will and theodicy).

Now, you wrote:

As you might guess LDS would disagree with #1. In fact while I do not personally deny the label of Christian to Catholics, Protestants, or even JWs there are differences in our views of Jesus and the Trinity.
I believe that the Bible supports my view of the Trinity (generally called Social Trinity I think first by Protestant philosopher Plantinga) above the Catholic view I call the Augustinian Trinity.

I also boldly declare that the Bible teaches and the early church acknowledges that men can become gods. This does not mean that men supplant God, but it does meant that we are “conformed to the image of Christ” who is the “image of God.” Here is a thread I started to explore the Catholic view on this:
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1624

I have since read Deification and Grace by Keating (a Catholic seminary professor). I found his book to be a remarkable demonstration of the Biblical warrant for deification, followed by a peculiar attempt to mute the power of the Biblical statements by claiming that words applied to Jesus mean something different when applied to men.

If you are philosopher, I really recommend Ostler’s books. In addition to his exposition on Mormon thought, I think he outlines philosophical problems with non-Mormon thought that I have never seen solved.
Here is a link to info on his books:
http://www.koffordbooks.com/mormon_thought.shtml
http://www.koffordbooks.com/mormon_thought2.shtml

Charity, TOm

I appreciate your frank (name removed by moderator)ut, TOM. Let me know if i should add anything else to the Pros list.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   *]Properly understood LDS theology is Biblical theology.
   *]There are numerous problems with the BOM that have been used to discredit it, but on the whole I believe the answers to the problems and the positive evidences weight strongly in favor of the BOM.
   *]Early Christian history offers much reason to see an “Apostasy of Authority” and to see a restoration of various doctrines found within the CoJCoLDS.
   *]The Bible supports the LDS view of the Trinity.
   *]The Bible teaches, and the early church acknowledges, that men can actually become gods.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      [IMG ]http://www.telecpa.com/img/efamilynetwork.com/29/1/templates/inset_checkmark.jpg[/IMG]

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

And there is absolutely no accounting for tithing money. It goes to Salt Lake City and is spent without letting members know where it goes. A typical ward receives only a small fraction back of what it sends to Salt Lake City. And the Church spends money to support the Salt Lake economy like their 2 billion dollar investment in malls in downtown SLC.

I’ll add that to the list, too, Bart.



Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   *]Properly understood LDS theology is Biblical theology.
   *]There are numerous problems with the BOM that have been used to discredit it, but on the whole I believe the answers to the problems and the positive evidences weight strongly in favor of the BOM.
   *]Early Christian history offers much reason to see an “Apostasy of Authority” and to see a restoration of various doctrines found within the CoJCoLDS.
   *]The Bible supports the LDS view of the Trinity.
   *]The Bible teaches, and the early church acknowledges, that men can actually become gods.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      *]There is absolutely no accounting for tithing money: It goes to Salt Lake City and is spent without letting members know where it goes.
      

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Pros: ditto on the social structure
Pros: ditto on the family values
Pros: small group with a mission status promotes community

Cons: Joseph’s vision seems to be weighted above Jesus’ words
(Great Apostasy)
Cons: continued revelation (at times historically contradictory)
Cons: divorce is encouraged if your partner leaves the LDS faith

Thank you, RAR, for your unbiast opinion! The last one is surprising. Have they not read the following?

"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty. 
  "So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith."

(Malachi 2:16)

**Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros**

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   *]Properly understood LDS theology is Biblical theology.
   *]There are numerous problems with the BOM that have been used to discredit it, but on the whole I believe the answers to the problems and the positive evidences weight strongly in favor of the BOM.
   *]Early Christian history offers much reason to see an “Apostasy of Authority” and to see a restoration of various doctrines found within the CoJCoLDS.
   *]The Bible supports the LDS view of the Trinity.
   *]The Bible teaches, and the early church acknowledges, that men can actually become gods.
   *]The small group with a mission status promotes community.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      *]There is absolutely no accounting for tithing money: It goes to Salt Lake City and is spent without letting members know where it goes.
      *]Joseph’s vision seems to be weighted above Jesus’ words.
      *]The continued revelation is at times historically contradictory.
      *]Divorce is encouraged if your partner leaves the LDS faith.
      http://www.bishopmuseum.org/education/images/checkmark.gif

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

catholic.com/library/problems_with_the_book_of_mormon.asp

I think this sums up all of the cons, which to me, far outweigh the pros.

Thank, Confused. Which of these do you find the most compelling?

 

[RAR]

Thank you, RAR, for your unbiast opinion! The last one is surprising. Have they not read the following?

“I hate divorce,” says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,” says the LORD Almighty.

“So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.”

(Malachi 2:16)
/quote]

Thank you Socrates, but please disregard that one about divorce. I have been corrected.

RAR

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Fallibility in moral character is allowable for prophets, for all have sinned. Fallibility in doctrinal utterances is inallowable. True prophets cannot utter false doctrine and remain prophets. God promises in LDS scripture (e.g. D&C 1:39) that when prophets speak as prophets they speak God’s words. It is also a reasonable expectation. Prophets that utter false doctrine or prophesies cannot be trusted and a true prophet must be trustworthy as God’s mouthpiece. False utterances destroy that trustworthiness. It is no good to say contemporary prophets teach the truth to us today and correct the false utterances of past prophets since future prophets might correct the false utterances of contemporary prophets. How then do we trust the prophet today? If prophets can utter falsities, then contemporary prophets could utter falsities. They therefore cannot be trusted. We must go to some other source for truth, and if so, we do not then need prophets, even if we seek illumination for the whole Church. If prophets can utter falsities, then we cannot know whether he speaks for God. Prophets must speak infallibly when pronouncing doctrine or they cannot be trusted.

Consider Brigham Young. He pronounced many false doctrines (e.g. Adam-God, blood atonement, fate of whites who marry blacks, timing of extension of the priesthood to black males), all of which come from the Journal of Discourses. Brigham put the whole force of his prophetic office behind these pronouncements, declared them from the pulpit in conference, and proclaimed severe spiritual consequences for disbelieving them. Clearly, Brigham intended his pronouncements to be understood as doctrinal. The problem is that they did not turn out to be doctrinal in the end. Brigham was mistaken, performing his prophetic duties fallibly - for which we still see consequences today among the beliefs of some fundamentalist mormons, particularly as regards racist beliefs about the origin of people of african descent.

This raises an important question: what was behind those false doctrines? There are only three possibilities:

1. Brigham speculated and mistook his speculations for doctrine;
2. Brigham speculated, knew it was speculation, and called it doctrine anyway; and
3. Brigham taught true doctrine after all.

If #1, Brigham was an incompetent prophet. If #2, Brigham was a liar. If #3, Brigham was a true prophet but the modern church has gone astray in declaring those things he taught to be false. The most likely scenario (assuming mormonism is true) is #1. But then that raises another question, already mentioned: if prophets can mistake speculation for doctrine, then how can they be trusted? We must go elsewhere to determine truth. And if we do that then we don’t need prophets. We can save time by cutting fallible prophets out completely and go straight to the source.

Thanks, Seeker!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   *]Properly understood LDS theology is Biblical theology.
   *]There are numerous problems with the BOM that have been used to discredit it, but on the whole I believe the answers to the problems and the positive evidences weight strongly in favor of the BOM.
   *]Early Christian history offers much reason to see an “Apostasy of Authority” and to see a restoration of various doctrines found within the CoJCoLDS.
   *]The Bible supports the LDS view of the Trinity.
   *]The Bible teaches, and the early church acknowledges, that men can actually become gods.
   *]The small group with a mission status promotes community.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      *]There is absolutely no accounting for tithing money: It goes to Salt Lake City and is spent without letting members know where it goes.
      *]Joseph’s vision seems to be weighted above Jesus’ words.
      *]The continued revelation is at times historically contradictory.
      *]Divorce is encouraged if your partner leaves the LDS faith.
      *]Fallibility in moral character is allowable for prophets, for all have sinned. Fallibility in doctrinal utterances is inallowable. True prophets cannot utter false doctrine and remain prophets.
      *]Consider Brigham Young: He pronounced many false doctrines. If prophets can mistake speculation for doctrine, then how can they be trusted?
      http://www.rpls.ws/images/checkmark.gif

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

While they oppose most abortions, Mormons don’t believe in the sanctity of life of the unborn.

I consider this a con as I believe human life is sacred from the moment of conception.

That’s good to know, Good.

Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   *]Properly understood LDS theology is Biblical theology.
   *]There are numerous problems with the BOM that have been used to discredit it, but on the whole I believe the answers to the problems and the positive evidences weight strongly in favor of the BOM.
   *]Early Christian history offers much reason to see an “Apostasy of Authority” and to see a restoration of various doctrines found within the CoJCoLDS.
   *]The Bible supports the LDS view of the Trinity.
   *]The Bible teaches, and the early church acknowledges, that men can actually become gods.
   *]The small group with a mission status promotes community.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      *]There is absolutely no accounting for tithing money: It goes to Salt Lake City and is spent without letting members know where it goes.
      *]Joseph’s vision seems to be weighted above Jesus’ words.
      *]The continued revelation is at times historically contradictory.
      *]Divorce is encouraged if your partner leaves the LDS faith.
      *]Fallibility in moral character is allowable for prophets, for all have sinned. Fallibility in doctrinal utterances is inallowable. True prophets cannot utter false doctrine and remain prophets.
      *]Consider Brigham Young: He pronounced many false doctrines. If prophets can mistake speculation for doctrine, then how can they be trusted?
      *]While they oppose most abortions, Mormons don’t believe in the sanctity of life of the unborn.
      http://ilovelabradorretrievers.com/PerfectBreeder/images/checkmark_box_large_red.png

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

For me, in answer to your question. . . the one, single, only and perfect reason to irrefutably, undeniably and totally reject mormonism can be summed up in the two most profound words:

Holy Eucharist.

Thank you for your opinion, TSG!

**Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros**

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   *]Properly understood LDS theology is Biblical theology.
   *]There are numerous problems with the BOM that have been used to discredit it, but on the whole I believe the answers to the problems and the positive evidences weight strongly in favor of the BOM.
   *]Early Christian history offers much reason to see an “Apostasy of Authority” and to see a restoration of various doctrines found within the CoJCoLDS.
   *]The Bible supports the LDS view of the Trinity.
   *]The Bible teaches, and the early church acknowledges, that men can actually become gods.
   *]The small group with a mission status promotes community.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      *]There is absolutely no accounting for tithing money: It goes to Salt Lake City and is spent without letting members know where it goes.
      *]Joseph’s vision seems to be weighted above Jesus’ words.
      *]The continued revelation is at times historically contradictory.
      *]Divorce is encouraged if your partner leaves the LDS faith.
      *]Fallibility in moral character is allowable for prophets, for all have sinned. Fallibility in doctrinal utterances is inallowable. True prophets cannot utter false doctrine and remain prophets.
      *]Consider Brigham Young: He pronounced many false doctrines. If prophets can mistake speculation for doctrine, then how can they be trusted?
      *]While they oppose most abortions, Mormons don’t believe in the sanctity of life of the unborn.
      *]The one, single, only and perfect reason to irrefutably, undeniably and totally reject mormonism can be summed up in the two most profound words: Holy Eucharist.
      

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

In my little mind, I can think of three cons.

First, teachings are being disproven by science. FOr example, DNA evidence shows no Isrealite ancestory in Native Americans.

Second, the ban on alcohol and caffine.

Thrid, at one time, they taught that men can marry more than one woman. Ask any married man away from his wife, where he can speak without fear of retribution. THat is a bad, bad idea. ONe is enough.

BIG thoughts for a little mind! Thank you.

**Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros**

1. 
   *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
   *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
   *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
   *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
   *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors.
   *]In exchange for obeying the leaders of the LDS church, you get the social safety net.
   *]Properly understood LDS theology is Biblical theology.
   *]There are numerous problems with the BOM that have been used to discredit it, but on the whole I believe the answers to the problems and the positive evidences weight strongly in favor of the BOM.
   *]Early Christian history offers much reason to see an “Apostasy of Authority” and to see a restoration of various doctrines found within the CoJCoLDS.
   *]The Bible supports the LDS view of the Trinity.
   *]The Bible teaches, and the early church acknowledges, that men can actually become gods.
   *]The small group with a mission status promotes community.
   Cons
   1. 
      *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problem with Mormonism is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no different from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
      *]Your compliance with LDS rules will be monitored and your ability to participate in various functions will be affected. (If you don’t show that you meet the criteria you will not be allowed in the temple for example.)
      *]There is absolutely no accounting for tithing money: It goes to Salt Lake City and is spent without letting members know where it goes.
      *]Joseph’s vision seems to be weighted above Jesus’ words.
      *]The continued revelation is at times historically contradictory.
      *]Divorce is encouraged if your partner leaves the LDS faith.
      *]Fallibility in moral character is allowable for prophets, for all have sinned. Fallibility in doctrinal utterances is inallowable. True prophets cannot utter false doctrine and remain prophets.
      *]Consider Brigham Young: He pronounced many false doctrines. If prophets can mistake speculation for doctrine, then how can they be trusted?
      *]While they oppose most abortions, Mormons don’t believe in the sanctity of life of the unborn.
      *]The one, single, only and perfect reason to irrefutably, undeniably and totally reject mormonism can be summed up in the two most profound words: Holy Eucharist.
      *]LDS teachings are being disproven by science (for example, DNA evidence shows no Isrealite ancestory in Native Americans).
      *]They ban alcohol and caffine.
      *]At one time, they taught that men can marry more than one woman.
      
      http://eiplp.org/images/checkmark.gif