Pros and Cons of Mormonism

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steve_b said:
I think it is always good to let the one in the spot light do their own promo.

newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/what-mormons-believe-about-jesus-christ

based on this

  1. *]They don’t believe Jesus is God. They think he is a god
    *]They believe that God is an exalted man, that He is a separate and distinct personage from the Son and the Holy Ghost.
    *]they don’t believe in the Trinity.
    *]Mormonism is based on revelation from Joseph Smith, the likes of (2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32 Mosiah 3:7–9; Alma 34:11, Helaman 5:11 etc etc),The Book or Mormon etc
    *]they do not believe that the Bible contains all that God has spoken or will yet speak in the future. Christianity OTOH, believes the public revelation is closed. Mormons believe more is coming through their prophets
    *]Mormons don’t have valid baptism, no Eucharist, no sacrament of reconcilliation, no valid holy orders, no sacrament of the sick etc. As Jesus said in John’s gospel, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. Those who do eat my flesh and drink my blood I will raise them on the last day.
    We know who started Mormonism and when. Bottomline, why put your faith in a man made religion?
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  1. Thank you, Steve! Even though you are a latecomer to the discussion, i believe i should still add your bottom line to the list.

    👍
 
Reasons to Reject Mormonism

  1. *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
    *]Mormons think they can become gods.
    *]There is no linguistic, archaeological or historical support for the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
    *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
    *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
    *]There is no evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
    *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman garnered power and sexual conquest.
    *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among Mormons.
    *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
    *]Mormons require 10% of your money. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple.
    *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven.
    *]Mormonism is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
    *]Mormons warp the bible.
    *]The amount of control over your life that you must cede to LDS leaders is great: You are told how and when to serve.
    *]Your compliance with LDS rules is monitored and your ability to participate in various functions is affected.
    *]There is no accounting for tithing money: It goes to Salt Lake City and is spent without letting members know where it goes.
    *]Joseph’s vision seems to be weighted above Jesus’ words. Jesus gave authority to Peter and the Roman Catholic church.
    *]The continued revelation is at times historically contradictory.
    *]-]Divorce is encouraged if your partner leaves the LDS faith/-].
    *]Fallibility in doctrinal utterances is not allowed. True prophets cannot utter false doctrine and remain prophets.
    *]Brigham Young pronounced many false doctrines.
    *]While they oppose most abortions, Mormons don’t believe in the sanctity of life of the unborn.
    *]The one, single, only and perfect reason to reject Mormonism: Holy Eucharist.
    *]LDS teachings are being disproved by science (for example, DNA evidence shows no Israelite ancestry in Native Americans).
    *]They ban alcohol and caffeine.
    *]At one time, they taught that men can marry more than one woman.
    *]Some Mormons are not nice.
    *]Mormonism is extremely ethnocentric.
    *]Joseph Smith was a fraud. For example, he received revelations and compiled the Book of Commandments, but they were later changed in the Doctrine and Covenants.
    *]Mormons are not allowed to pray to Jesus or to the Holy Ghost, nor are they permitted to worship them.
    *]If you are Mormon, none of your non-Mormon family will be allowed to attend your wedding ceremony at the temple.
    *]The Mormon church sets your grooming standard and fashion selection.
    *]You can confidently claim anything (great apostasy; mark of Cain; plural marriage; eternal progression; baptism of the dead; many gods and goddesses) without worrying about PROVING it.
    *]You can “re-translate” your “scripture” (the BoM and other soporific tomes) into “better” English as your theology changes.
    *]Every man a priest, every man a god.
    *]Women are beholden to menfolk (we Mormons rule planets!)
    *]Apparently the belief is that God is fallible.
    *]Mormon prophets had difficulties with ancient Egyptian.
    *]The Book of Mormon is a fraud, as Native Americans come from Asia, not Israel, and there are no Lamanites.
    *]There is not enough focus on Jesus Christ, and far too much focus on the Church being true, the BOM and LDS prophets being “true”.
    *]The goal of going to the temple to have your family sealed to you for eternity, and staying worthy enough to be able to do so. These things are emphasized and talked about far more than Jesus Christ is.
    *]Mormonism puts too much focus on doing things, and even giving charitable donations for purposes of self rather than on simply helping those in need.
    *]**The doctrine that God was once a man just like any other man; who lived on an earth and progressed to Godhood. This is in direct conflict with what God has said of himself. He said he is Eternally God. The Great I AM. He Who Is. Without beginning or end. **
    *]You can believe Jesus or you can believe Joseph Smith. The contradiction is too great to believe them both.
    *]The Mormon “welfare system” helps only their own.
    *]Mormons do not consider the Holy Spirit to be a person, or a member of the Trinity, but an “it”.
    *]Confession in the Mormon Church does not seem to be confidential.
    *]You don’t have to think for yourself. You simply believe what you are told to, no matter how bizarre it sounds.
    *]Its much easier to be a prophet. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t come true, or we can fit events to suit your prophecy (even if they don’t really fit).
    *]If it’s wrong you can expect to be worshipping and believing incredibly blasphemous things.
    *]The big con is that it’s not true.
    *]Mormons believe that God was once like us - fallible, sinful, mortal, and was eventually exalted.
    *]Mormonism is human, rather than Divine, in origin. That is, it is a man-made religion.
 
The most important reasons to reject Mormonism:

Reason 17.

Joseph’s vision seems to be weighted above Jesus’ words. Jesus gave authority to Peter and the Roman Catholic church.

Reason 43.
The doctrine that God was once a man just like any other man; who lived on an earth and progressed to Godhood. This is in direct conflict with what God has said of himself. He said he is Eternally God. The Great I AM. He Who Is. Without beginning or end.

Reason 53.

Mormonism is human, rather than Divine, in origin. That is, it is a man-made religion.
 
Regarding reason 53, i see where the Book of Mormon is contrary to the Bible on certain essential doctrines–most strikingly on the nature of Jesus Christ. From what i understand, the book teaches that He was not the God, but one of three gods. I think, therefore, that i should compare the evidence that supports the Bible with the evidence that supports the Book of Mormon to see which is more trustworthy.

Can anyone tell me why i should believe the Bible when it disagrees with the Book of Mormon, or why i should believe the Book of Mormon when it contradicts the Bible?

🤷
 
steve_b said:
All great qualities. All found in the Catholic Church as well.

They’ve got God completely wrong.

A 100% man made book devoid of Divine inspiration

There is ALWAYS an apostasy of authority to point to by someone, or some group in history. The theory that the entire Church fell prey to this is not historical and pure nonsense.

they DON’T believe in the Trinity

I hope you see the difference between a god and God.

The good qualities of Mormonism regarding families is very good. But so is Catholicism with regards to family.

LDS has no valid priesthood.

Really? :rolleyes:

:doh2:

I would suggest that scripture says they can’t REALLY do that without the sacraments.
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Thank you, Steve, but we have not heard from a Mormon, yet, as to which of these reasons is the best, most worthy, reason to become a Mormon. Rather than discuss every one of them, i’d like to wait for a thoughtful, faithful, Latter Day Saint to choose one and see why he believes that reason is not only the most worthy but also true.
 
why_me said:
I can only give you my story. When I was 18 years old, I met Mormons. It was in the northwestern part of the USA when I began my higher education. I joined their institute class and began to study the book of mormon. I also participated in mormon activities for young adults. I liked the people and I enjoyed the ‘spirit’ of the people. But it wasn’t until I prayed about the book of mormon and received a witness of it, that I joined. I don’t know if I would have joined by jotting down reasons why mormonism is good or bad. Probably not. But if the holy ghost is telling me to join, then that was a different matter.

Joining a church is not a socratic event. It is a spiritual event, one based on faith, knowledge and understanding with the Holy Ghost as guide.

That being said, I am not that involved with the mormon church. I remember the witness that I received and I have nothing negative to say about the religion. People, however, are imperfect and you will meet imperfect mormons as one meets imperfect catholics.

But joining a faith is not a socratic endeavor in my humble opinion.
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Thank you for being open about your experience, WhyMe. 🙂

Regarding your personal testimony, i find it sincere. I’m curious about one thing you said:

But it wasn’t until I prayed about the book of mormon and received a witness of it, that I joined. I don’t know if I would have joined by jotting down reasons why mormonism is good or bad. Probably not. But if the holy ghost is telling me to join, then that was a different matter.

I genuinely want to understand this experience you had in receiving a witness from the Holy Spirit that the Book of Mormon is true and that you should join the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints. Can you describe what this experience was like?
 
I know that I suggested it, but No. 37 seems to be a good reason for not becoming a mormon.

Following a faliable God/creater/inspirer of prophets ect, doesnt really seem like you are following God at all. It kind of sounds like following a man (which I guess would fit in their belief structure).
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Perhaps, RAR, but i think a Mormon might counter that Jesus was not referring to the person of Peter, nor to the position of Peter, but to the premise of Peter. That is, the Rock to which He referred was not Peter but the truth that the Holy Spirit helped him accept. That truth, of course, is the truth of who Jesus is and what He came to do. Notice the passage in context, where Jesus starts off by asking Peter and the others who people believe He really is:

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15"But what about you?" he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20Then he warned his disciples not to tl anyone that he was the Christ. 21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. (Matthew 16) That is not to say, however, that there are no passages that teach that Jesus gave authority to Peter and the other disciples. This one comes to mind:

16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”*(Matthew 28) *BTW, here is a link to a great resource for searching the Bible:

biblegateway.com/
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Yes, I’m aware of this argument and their understanding of the passage… but, if he weren’t speaking of and to Peter, why would he have begun the sentence saying “You are Peter…”?

I think it clear that he is speaking of Peter as the rock when you read the verse that comes immediately after (19).

Thanks for the link.

RAR
 
**The most important reason to accept Mormonism:

**Reason 18.

God gives a personal witness to people that the Book of Mormon is true and His desire is for them to become Mormons, and He communicates this desire to them through the Holy Spirit.
 
RAR said:
Yes, I’m aware of this argument and their understanding of the passage… but, if he weren’t speaking of and to Peter, why would he have begun the sentence saying “You are Peter…”?

I think it clear that he is speaking of Peter as the rock when you read the verse that comes immediately after (19).

Thanks for the link.

RAR
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A Mormon who understands Greek might respond:

The Greek text literally reads: "Thou art Petros, and upon this petra I will build my church."She might then ask, "If Jesus meant that Peter (or Petros, which means little stone) was the Rock, then would he not have said this? ‘Thou are Petros, and upon this Petros I will build my church.’ "

She might then try to reason with you that the reason Jesus used petra (or great rock) instead of petros (or little stone) was that He was teaching that His church would be built upon the essential truth that He is a god.

She might use the meaning of the Greek text to argue that Peter was not an authority like a Pope, although i do not think i would do the same. However, the argument about the meaning of the text does have merit. Isn’t the Deity of Jesus Christ the foundation on which the church rests, and the fundamental creed of Christendom?
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Isn’t the Deity of Jesus Christ the foundation on which the church rests, and the fundamental creed of Christendom?
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Indeed it is, but I’d respond to the Petros/petra argument that Christ was using “petra” deliberately to both distinguish it from the name (Petros) and to at the same time make it clear that he was speaking of Petros in his use of “petra.” Otherwise, to make it clear that he did NOT mean Peter, he would have been much more careful in his word use.

Example… my brother’s name is Rocky (we often call him Rock). Imagine if my father would have said the following immediately after my brother’s birth:

“You are Rock, and upon this stone I will build my family.”

Now, he could have meant himself (my father) in that because of my father, my brother will now be able to bring forth a family, but he clearly also means that because of Rocky a family will be brought forth.

I believe that because of the reference to the stone and the play on words with Rocky, that my father would be speaking principally of my brother that would provide the means to bring forth the family.

I hope this wasn’t too circular… I’m leaving for work.

God bless.

RAR
 
Pros

1, You can wear an under garment with masonic symbols on it to protect you from Christians.

2, The under garment may keep you warm in the winter

3, You can have a Masonic Temple in Salt Lake City and claim it’s a Mormon temple.

Cons

1, The occultic under garment doesn’t work.

2, You are not allowed to discuss the under garment with non-Mormons due to an oath you have to take.

3, If anyone knew the symbols were Masonic and also knew Joseph Smith was a Free Mason, they would get the link.

4, Mormonism is a form of Freemasonry

5, Freemasonry is Satanism.

6, Many will say “Lord Lord didn’t we … in your name”
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
A Mormon who understands Greek might respond:

The Greek text literally reads: "Thou art Petros, and upon this petra I will build my church."She might then ask, "If Jesus meant that Peter (or Petros, which means little stone) was the Rock, then would he not have said this? ‘Thou are Petros, and upon this Petros I will build my church.’ "

She might then try to reason with you that the reason Jesus used petra (or great rock) instead of petros (or little stone) was that He was teaching that His church would be built upon the essential truth that He is a god.

She might use the meaning of the Greek text to argue that Peter was not an authority like a Pope, although i do not think i would do the same. However, the argument about the meaning of the text does have merit. Isn’t the Deity of Jesus Christ the foundation on which the church rests, and the fundamental creed of Christendom?
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Quickly,
But Jesus was speaking Aramaic not Greek. This is a Protestant argument. LDS have had little problem with Peter as the Rock. We are the Peterine successors. The break in the link is between Peter and the BIshop of Rome.
Thanks, TOm
 
TOmNossor said:
I am happy you are healing. I recognize that growth is possible for those who leave the CoJCoLDS.
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You again misunderstand me. I am not an exMormon, never have been Mormon, and never will be. However, I have lived among them for much of my life, and was raised to be tolerant of other people’s beliefs. It has only been in recent years that I have found out that LDS are not tolerant of my beliefs and cultural heritage, and, in fact, some are offended by my very existence. :bigyikes:
 
TOmNossor said:
Quickly,
But Jesus was speaking Aramaic not Greek. This is a Protestant argument. LDS have had little problem with Peter as the Rock. We are the Peterine successors. The break in the link is between Peter and the BIshop of Rome.
Thanks, TOm
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LDS teaching on this is that Peter is NOT the rock the church is built on. Revelation is.
 
majick275 said:
LDS teaching on this is that Peter is NOT the rock the church is built on. Revelation is.
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I am pretty sure you are incorrect.
I know that of the three:
Jesus = Rock (Bible as a whole strong)
Revelation = Rock (Grammatically / Context strong)
Peter = Rock (Symbolically strong - which I quite like)
I am fairly certain all three have been used by LDS leaders. I find different strengths in all three. Here is “Peter the Rock” in an Ensign article.
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.j...45bd384b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
As long as Christ is not viewed as non-important, Peter can be viewed as “the Rock” by LDS.
Charity, TOm
 
TOmNossor said:
I am pretty sure you are incorrect.
I know that of the three:
Jesus = Rock (Bible as a whole strong)
Revelation = Rock (Grammatically / Context strong)
Peter = Rock (Symbolically strong - which I quite like)
I am fairly certain all three have been used by LDS leaders. I find different strengths in all three. Here is “Peter the Rock” in an Ensign article.
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.j...45bd384b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
As long as Christ is not viewed as non-important, Peter can be viewed as “the Rock” by LDS.
Charity, TOm
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i see your 1971 ensign and raise you an 86 ensign 😃

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=7d578949f2f6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

I think is much better documented from official LDS sources and very specific on supporting my point.
 
Jerusha said:
You again misunderstand me. I am not an exMormon, never have been Mormon, and never will be. However, I have lived among them for much of my life, and was raised to be tolerant of other people’s beliefs. It has only been in recent years that I have found out that LDS are not tolerant of my beliefs and cultural heritage, and, in fact, some are offended by my very existence.
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Ok. It seems to me that you lived among LDS. You were tolerant of other people’s beliefs so I presume you didn’t shun LDS. You later came to the conclusion that these people you lived among “are not tolerant of [your] beliefs and cultural heritage, and, in fact, some are offended by [your] very existence.”

So now, to my observation, (based on my interaction with you not based upon what people told me to expect of the group of people to which you belong) you are offended by my religion which is a significant part of my very existence.

Furthermore, I would suggest that your first hand experience among the LDS should be preferred when assessing the present tense (this is the tense you used, perhaps you made a mistake?) of our acceptance of you, your existence, and your beliefs.

I can guess that you might think that you have no physical indications associated with your cultural heritage (as in skin color or ???), but if you really interacted with LDS it would seem if we are as you describe you should have noticed.

Since I am a LDS, and I have reason to believe that me and the majority of my co-religionists are on the less prejudice end of the spectrum within the current US; it may be that you have become offended (“hurts your soul”) when no offense was intended.

Of course, I guess I cannot know.
According to your last message it is not our religious past that has hurt you. I struggle to find many scenarios that I consider likely where our present members would be more offensive than average Americans. I still readily apologize for the prejudice in the history of the CoJCoLDS. I do however suggest that by your own relaying of events such things are generally absent today. Perhaps you would like to recognize this in your interactions with me and other LDS.

Charity, TOm
 
Tom, you are swimming in de-nile, not the “filthy waters” of the Mississippi. I was raised in Hancock County Illinois, into a family with roots before 1837 in the area. Capiche???

Given LDS ability to research the geneaology of most people in this country, I do believe you cannot deny where the problem is.

I have forgiveness, my family has forgiveness. LDS do not. It is the LDS present that is the problem. Because I am living in an area of the country which has very few LDS people, I am now reasonably safe from the problem.
 
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