PROSKYNEO- Always "Worship"?

[jnoelbalana14]

Another argument used by JWs to justify their claim about “not” worshiping Jesus…

PROSKYNEO-Always "Worship"?

At Matthew 2:11 the American Standard Version reads:

"And they[the 'magi']came into the house and saw the young child with Mary his mother: and they fell down and worshipped[Gk: PROSKYNEO]him;..."

In a footnote they add:

"³The Greek word denotes an act of reverence whether paid to a creature(see ch. 4:19, 18, 26), or to the Creator(see ch. 4:10)."

Also at this place Weymouth's translation reads: "..they prostrated themselves and did Him homage...".

Again, in a footnote, we can read: "[vv]8, 11. Do him homage] Or perhaps 'worship' See John ix. 38.n."

An accusation of the New World Translation usually reads:

"Matthew 2:11: "Bowed down and worshipped him" changed to "did obeisance to it". The JWs evade recognizing Jesus as worthy of worship as a divine being by altering the form of honor that he receives from men and angels. The Greek word proskuneo literally means "worship." The use of "obeisance" is a NWT adaptation. (Same revision found in Matt. 8:2; 9:18, 14:33; 15:25; 28:9, 17; *Mark 5:6(see remark * below); 15:19; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; Heb. 1:6.)"

Rendering PROSKYNEO as "obeisance" can hardly be termed a "NWT adaptation!

Vines Expository Dictionary says under this word:

"1.PROSKUNEO...,to make obeisance, do reverence to(from pros, towards, and kuneo, to kiss)is the most frequent word rendered to worship."

A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, by G.Abbott-Smith, 3rd edition, p.386 says:

"[pros-kuneo],..(< kuneo,to kiss),....to make obeisance, do reverance to, worship.

A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, by William F.Arndt and F.Wilbur Gingrich, 1957, says on pages 723,724, under proskuneo:

"...used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person, and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground, etc, .....(fall down) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate oneself before, do reverence to, welcome respectfully.(see here Reinecker's Linguistic Key, p.2, where the above is quoted at Matthew 2:2)

"1 to human beings who, however, are to be recognised by this act as belonging to a supernatural realm...

"2 to God...a)of the God worshipped by monotheists...

"5)to Jesus, who is revered and worshipped as Messianic King and Divine Helper: Mt.2:2, 8, 11; 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; J 9:38.....-The risen Lord is esp.the object of worship: Mt.28:9,17; Lk 24:52..."

Lastly, The New Thayers Greek-Lexicon of the New Testament, Joseph Henry Thayer, p.548:

"[proskuneo]......to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence....hence in the N.T. by kneeling or prostration to do homage(to one)or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication...".

*Regarding Mark 5:6 where in the KJV we read "But when he[the demon-possessed man]saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him." Ralph Earle in his Word Meanings In The New Testament writes: "Worshipped It is true that proskyneo...means "to make obeisance, do reverence to, worship. The pertinent question remains: Would the demon-possessed man be worshipping Jesus, even though he called Him "Son of the Most High God"(NASB, NIV, RSV)? Probably "fell on his knees in front of him"(NIV) is a safer translation."-p.37, Hendrickson Publishers, 4th printing, June 2000.

We see here that _context_ can determine what kind of PROSKYNEO it is that is being rendered.

So "to do obeisance" is an acceptable rendition for PROSKYNEO. There is nothing in the word itself, when used in respect to Jesus, that it meant the worship of that one as God Almighty.

So that, while the New International Version says at Matthew 2:11:

"[the Magi] bowed down and worshipped him[the babe Jesus],"

the Revised English Bible (1990)reads here:

"they bowed low in homage to him."

Did the Magi do PROSKYNEO to the babe Jesus as to one born a King or as God Almighty? Surely it was the former. The word at Matthew 2:11 has the same sense of "worship" or "obeisance" that the Canaanites received from Abraham(Gen 23:7, 12.LXX),or that Esau received from his brother Jacob(Gen.33:3, 6, 7.LXX) and toward Daniel from King Nebuchadnezzar(Daniel 2:46,LXX). When we "bow down to," or do "worship"(PROSKYNEO) towards one that is not Jehovah God then that "worship" is different from that which we give to Him. But in the Bible the same word is used whether such "worship" is that directed toward God, or men, or angels(creatures).

I need help to refute this…thanks alot…

 

[stanczyk]

Whether or not proskynesis was the same as “worship” depends on who you asked in classical antiquity. The historian Herodotus wrote about the custom among the Persians:
Herodotus:

When the Persians meet one another in the roads, you can see whether those who meet are of equal rank. For instead of greeting by words, they kiss each other on the mouth; but if one of them is inferior to the other, they kiss one another on the cheeks, and if one is of much less noble rank than the other, he falls down before him and worships him.
Herodotus, Histories 1.134

When Alexander the Great conquered Persia, he instituted proskynesis, which caused considerable consternation among his Greek troops, who viewed proskynesis as a act suitable only for the gods.

To the Greeks and Hellenic Jews, it is pretty clear that the act of proskynesis was generally understood to be reserved for divinity. For example, in the book of Esther, Chapter 3, Mordecai refuses to commit proskynesis before the king, because an act of worship was reserved for God. You can find the Septuagint version of Esther here: bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/17_003.htm, directing your attention to 3:2 and 3:5.

I hope that helps. It seems pretty clear that proskynesis was an act or worship which any pious Jew or self-respecting Greek would reserve only for divinity.

 

[Formosus]

It was already mentioned in the other thread you started that προσκυνέω is inherently tied to the idea of divine worship. In the full version of Liddell and Scott, the most authoritative Greek Lexicon there is, the verb has almost no connotations that are not related to divinity. Even the passages you bring up prove this.

The pagans who are the subject of proskuneo to OT prophets are doing so because they see the Divine actions of God working through them. They are bowing down and worshiping because it is God who acted through the prophets, not the prophets who acted of their own accord. For Jesus and the Three kings, they bowed down because He is both King and God. They can selectively cite lexicons all they want, but I think its telling that none of these citations come from Liddell and Scott.

 

[adf417]

jnoelbalana, What you are describing above is exactly the reason why it has been recommended by many to read multiple translations to get a better sense of context.

However, what I have found with the NWT is the inconsistency, or consistency, whichever way you look at it, in which they translate the word “proskyneo”. I think we all agree it is reasonable to translate a single word into different words and meanings. The inconsistency is when you look at the consistency in how the NWT translates it in reference to its particular subjects.

A few years ago I analyzed this using (9) translations, (NWT, NKJV, YNG, DBY, RSV, NASB, NIV, NET, & NAB) with the following results. Proskyneo is supposed to be used (65) times in the NT but I could only find (61). Out of the (61) entries in the above translations, when referring to GOD, only (YNG, DBY, & NAB) did NOT translate it to “worship” 100% of the time. When referring to Jesus, only the (NWT & YNG) did NOT translate it to ‘worship” 100% of the time. I’m sure there are other statistics in my data but the most amazing is that the (NWT) was the only translation that translated “proskyneo” as “worship” 100% of the time when referring to “God” and as “obeisance” 100% of the time when referring to Jesus. How is that for consistency?

Another interesting side note, when you look at these translations as I did you start to see a bias when “proskyneo” is used multiple time in the same sentence. As in Mt 2:11 …“and having fallen down they bowed to him”…(YNG)

I also did the same to the Greek/Hebrew words: “sebo”, “shachah”, “cegid”, “kyrios”, & “theos” w/ interesting results.

Peace!!!

 

[John7]

PROSKYNEO-Always “Worship”?

At Matthew 2:11 the American Standard Version reads:

“And they[the ‘magi’]came into the house and saw the young child with Mary his mother: and they fell down and worshipped[Gk: PROSKYNEO]him;…”

"Matthew 2:11: “Bowed down and worshipped him” changed to “did obeisance to it”.

wouldn’t it be sort of redundant to put obeisance there

Merriam-Webster’s
obei•sance \ō-ˈbē-sən (t)s, ə-, -ˈbā-\ noun
[Middle English obeisaunce obedience, obeisance, from Anglo-French obeisance, from obeissant, present participle of obeir to obey] 14th century
1: a movement of the body made in token of respect or submission : BOW

so 2.11 nwt
'and falling down they did obeisance to it — would read
‘and falling down they bowed to it.’

sort of almost like saying
‘they fell down and fell down to it’

 

[John7]

BTW, another verse where find both proskuneo and epesan, Rev 11.16

nwt
11.16 And the twenty-four elders who were seated before God upon their thrones
fell upon their faces and worshiped (not obeisance) God,

nas
…fell on their faces and worshiped God

nwt
mt 2.11 and, falling down, they did obeisance to it.