Protestanism: a great heresy

[Sean_O_L]

NO ONE!!! converts through reason!!! But only though the grace of Almighty God!!. We must be upfront and vocal about our beliefs, and through our prayer and penance heretics will be converted.

Yeah! Especially after being bonked on the skull, body by a hillelagh, or after having been knee-capped!

Seriously, though, marineboy confuses the mode of transport (protestantISM) with the driver and/or passengers (protestANTS): in other words, he compares something dead with someone living.

While the ORIGINAL initiators of “protestantism” were Catholics who went into schism and/or heresy AND were formal heretics and/or schismatics (exactly like Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and his adherents today!) - their descendents inherited their “-ism” errors - probably in good faith and as is the way on things in this world.

Yes, blame the faulty vehicle for the accident - the driver and passengers may be completely blameless.

 

[JGC]

delorean_boy:

NO ONE!!! converts through reason!!! But only though the grace of Almighty God!!.

The no-one converts (to Christianity, or denominationally) through reason, only grace, arguement is quite protestant. Classic protestantism would hold that since we are utterly corrupt we cannot approach God through reason since it has been destroyed. Only by the grace of God can we believe. We can not do it ourselves.

Catholicism holds that man’s nature has been damaged, but not destroyed by original sin and that therefore we can reason there is a God. God’s grace is also necessary - A call and response. God does not force himself on anyone. Freewill.

For me, I believe I reasoned there was a God. Once I made that choice, and made the door open, by the grace of God I was led to the Catholic Church.

 

[john654]

Hello,

Most of the so called Catholics in the Chuch I attende in Gorden Grove Ca. are Protestants, and they don’t even know it. the truth always sounds like a 2x4. It IS a two edge sword. Protestants are tearing the catholic CXhurch apart. STARTING with the pill! Catholic are afraid of offence. I live in Nashville Tennessee. TRUST ME, I know alot of Protestants, and they are EXACTLY like the “Protestants” Catholics I knew in California. I have three of them looking into the Catholic faith. ALL of them thank me for my frankness about the truth of Jesus Christ. jesus is NOT A WIMP! JESUS IS KING!

It’s a WAR!

John

 

[mlchance]

john654:

It’s a WAR!

Yeah! Kill all the Protestants who refuse to convert! Outlaw Protestantism! Grr! Snarl! Blood and guts and veins in my teeth!

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[josiah]

Hello All…

To be up front. I’m a protestant and I’m not here to spew off anger (as some do), but I’m here out of shear curiosity and a better understanding of why the catholic church teaches what it teaches.

My first question is why is it assumed that the Church in Acts 2 is automatically considered to be the Roman Catholic church? If my church history serves me correctly, the Roman Catholic church wasn’t officially established until the time of Constantine, which was hundreds of years later.

I would say I’m Catholic too. (This may be surprising to some of you but I say this in the sense that I am a part of the Universal Church). However, I would not say that I am Roman Catholic.

Therefore, I am curious as to how the Roman Catholic church claims the church in ACTS when it didn’t even exist for another couple hundred years?

In love
Josiah

PS Marineboy, if you are the product of Roman Catholicism, I don’t think I would ever want to touch RC with a 10 FT pole. You’re lack of grace, kindness and love to those outside of the RC church is a HUGE turn off. Not to mention non-Christlike.

 

[Berean]

Lisa4Catholics:

Okay, once again you are being unCatholic we are Christians and you are being mean and vile. Jesus brought me to the Catholic Church and if someone who acted like you tried to approach me and convert me I would have run the other way. You sound like The Church of Christ protestant denomination I grew up with.Why don’t you ask the converts how they got converted?How do you feel when anti-catholics come to this forum spouting off hatred?Mother Theresa didn’t treat anyone this way, do you know why?Because Christ calls us to be the light of the world,and there is nothing but darkness in your thread.I am going to pray for you and please lighten up,you let Jesus do his job and get some humility about you:tsktsk:

Amen Sister in Christ. I’ll tell something you may not know. Marine boy is able to spout his hatred and the administrators let him get away with it. If a non-Catholic wrote this the administrators would boot him or her in a heart beat. There seems to be a double standard doesn’t there? Sister the Catholic Church is better than the hatred that is being displayed by Marine boy. He should be banned for his ignorance and hatred. I hope he is not a U.S. Marine, how could I be proud of moron like him! I will pray for him. God bless you Sister for taking the moral ground and standing up for your brothers and sisters away from the Catholic Church. There is only one Church and you can read about it in Ephesians chapter 4. It is the Church Jesus is coming back for. All born again believers in Christ from all denominations. Praise God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

 

[mercygate]

marineboy:

…simply because a particular Protestant does not ““see”” that the Catholic church is the true Church doesnt mean he is invincibly ignorant…he may be culpible because he may shut his heart down and not want to see the truth…

Well, that would be that person’s problem, wouldn’t it?

Yelling at people doesn’t generally soften hearts, either to Christ or, more especially, to his Church. All we can do is lay out the facts as we see them, and as they are presented by the Magisterium, and let the Holy Spirit do what he does best.

 

[hlgomez]

Marineboy,

Your statement is not absolutely correct. If you are a “catholic” you are not acting like one.

The Catholic Church teaches that in Protestantism, they still hold certain truths of the Gospel, but their entire doctrines are not 100% correct.

It is sad, though, that the founders of Protestantism like Luther and Calvin, were devoted to our Lady. But as time goes by, there adherents did not hold to the same devotion of their founders.
We pray, that as they look back to their founders with great respect, our Lady shall be a sign to bring them back to the Catholic Church.

Pio

 

[DianJo]

josiah:

Hello All…

My first question is why is it assumed that the Church in Acts 2 is automatically considered to be the Roman Catholic church? If my church history serves me correctly, the Roman Catholic church wasn’t officially established until the time of Constantine, which was hundreds of years later.

Therefore, I am curious as to how the Roman Catholic church claims the church in ACTS when it didn’t even exist for another couple hundred years?QUOTE]

You are misinformed about the formation of the Catholic Church. It is not assumed that the Church in Acts is automatically considered to be the Catholic Church - it is FACT!
And, just a clarification - There was no “Roman” Catholic Church at the very beginning - it was just the Catholic Church. Roman refers to the particular rite, there are many rites. The different rites were not to come about for many, many years.

*Before Constantine, there was a visible church - the Catholic Church. It was not defined as such until around AD 110 by one of the Church Fathers. *

*In Acts, you can clearly see the formation of the “Church” - its structure, authority and administration. The ordination of bishops and priests and their duties. You can clearly see who was “in charge”, etc. There were no bulidings then as we have today. The Christians back then were still worshipping in the Temple until it’s destruction. Later the Christians were “thrown out” of the synagogues altogether when the Jews had had enough of these so called “christians”. They then met in people’s homes and then at the time of the persecutions, had to go underground. *

When Constantine declared that Christianity was legal was when the formation of structures began. This is what you are referencing. All the believers, in the beginning were of the same mind and beliefs - they were Catholic! The beliefs and teachings of the Catholic Church today are the same as the teachings taught by Jesus and His Apostles. These teachings are what was handed down to the believers of the time. It was those teachings that were compiled into the bible. The bible is a compliation of Catholic Traditions to help teach the believers of the time.

Hope this helps with some of your misconceptions.

 

[Steve_M]

A priest friend of my looks at protestantism this way. Someone is sick and there are two pills they can take. One is the complete cure. It is, however, big and difficult for some to swallow. The second pill is smaller, but it doesn’t contain the entire cure. It does help the person get better, but not completely well. If they take the second pill, they might eventually be able to take the first. If they don’t take either, they will die. Is it better to die or to take the pill that only has some of the cure?

 

[John_of_Woking]

marineboy:

When u think about Protestanism and other Religions you have to say that the truths of there religions are correct in so far as they agree with Catholisicm…Protestants have no truth apart form the Catholic church…i find it remarkable that just because the new catechism uses “nice” language towards Protestanism that many Catholics, including those on this forum, want to turn a blind eye to Protestanism as a heresy… Protestanism has led many souls away from Christ and needs to be destroyed… Outside the Church there is no salvation absolutely applys to Protestants… I also would like to remind u that someone has the morla obligation to seek out the truth…simply because a particular Protestant does not ““see”” that the Catholic church is the true Church doesnt mean he is invincibly ignorant…he may be culpible because he may shut his heart down and not want to see the truth… pat madrid, when he debated james white on sola scriptura, told the audience that they run the risk of “goin to hell” because they are not Catholics… pat madrid is one of the finest apologists today and i think we should learn form this example and remind protestants that they may end up in hell for rejecting Christ’s truths…

You have righteous zeal and the Truth on your side. You are humble because you are not afraid to be shouted at for telling the truth. You are right…and this is a huge issue BUT, for the purposes of Dialogue it does not always pay to start with error but to start with points of convegrence before illuminating error.

 

[JGC]

John of Woking:

You have righteous zeal and the Truth on your side. You are humble because you are not afraid to be shouted at for telling the truth. You are right…and this is a huge issue BUT, for the purposes of Dialogue it does not always pay to start with error but to start with points of convegrence before illuminating error.

I thought the thread starter post was the worst I had seen for a while until I saw this one.

 

[St.Catherine]

Marineboy is accurate in his statement that Protestantism is a herasy. It will go down in history as one of the great heresies like ayriasm.

Perhaps, marineboy, you need to provide everyone with a definition of heresy and a brief history of the other heresies and what beliefs can be considered heritical.

I think that some people look at the word Heracy and Heritic as some kind of mean slur instead of as a label meaning “teaching contrary to Truth”

 

[JGC]

St.Catherine:

Marineboy is accurate in his statement that Protestantism is a herasy. It will go down in history as one of the great heresies like ayriasm.

Perhaps, marineboy, you need to provide everyone with a definition of heresy and a brief history of the other heresies and what beliefs can be considered heritical.

I think that some people look at the word Heracy and Heritic as some kind of mean slur instead of as a label meaning “teaching contrary to Truth”

Yes protestantism is a heresy. A priest I know considers the reformation to be the worst disaster to befall Christianity. I agree.

What I don’t agree with is marineboy’s truly offensive attitude. You can state truth with humility.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

marineboy:

When u think about Protestanism and other Religions you have to say that the truths of there religions are correct in so far as they agree with Catholisicm…Protestants have no truth apart form the Catholic church…i find it remarkable that just because the new catechism uses “nice” language towards Protestanism that many Catholics, including those on this forum, want to turn a blind eye to Protestanism as a heresy… Protestanism has led many souls away from Christ and needs to be destroyed…

By what means: massacre ? Inquisition ? giving the bishops the powers they used to have to try scases of heresy ? murder, perhaps ? imprisonment, exile, torture, confiscation of property ? All these have been tried, and all have hurt the Church far more than they have hurt others.​

Protestantism has done a great deal of good, and Catholicism, a great deal of harm. Both have many faults, so an accusation meant for one, often applies as much to the other.

I know how enormous a debt I owe to my Protestant background, and I’m unspeakably grateful for all the good it did me. The CC can learn a great deal from Protestants - we are saved by the same all-gracious God, after all.

Protestantism exists because Catholicism is not as faithful to Christ as it needs to be; it’s a rebuke to the Church, in part. If Christians live like devils, who is going to be impressed by their Christ-like lives ? It is not enough to profess right doctrines - we need also to live Christ-like lives; then there would be no scandals or errors or abuses or cover-ups or evils of any kind. That there are Christians outside the Church, is in some degree the fault of Catholics. Vatican II admitted this, and to do so was one of the most important things the Church could have done. People would not leave the Church, if their spiritual hunger and thirst were being satisfied within it. If it is not, they will go elsewhere until it is. If bishops ignored their dioceses - except for the money they could get from it - and priests were barely even literate, no wonder people left the Church. And no wonder: at least they could get some nourishment from Calvin and Luther and others - which is a thousand times better than starving within the Church entirely unfed.

I don’t think some Catholics realise just what a chaotic mess the Church was in. ##

Outside the Church there is no salvation absolutely applys to Protestants… I also would like to remind u that someone has the morla obligation to seek out the truth…simply because a particular Protestant does not ““see”” that the Catholic church is the true Church doesnt mean he is invincibly ignorant…he may be culpible because he may shut his heart down and not want to see the truth… pat madrid, when he debated james white on sola scriptura, told the audience that they run the risk of “goin to hell” because they are not Catholics… pat madrid is one of the finest apologists today and i think we should learn form this example and remind protestants that they may end up in hell for rejecting Christ’s truths…

This “believe or be damned” attitude really gets to me - and it often goes hand-in-hand with three things: lack of attention to why the Church is necessary; neglect of Vatican II and teaching since then; and, most important of all, lack of attention to Christ. The Church is nothing at all without Christ: she is meaningless, irrelevant, and worthless without Him. A Muslim with charity - and is God too small or weak to grant such a grace ? - is nearer Christ than an orthodox Catholic without charity. Orthodoxy by itself is as deadening as any other legalism - until the Holy Spirit enlivens it within those who hold to it. There is far more to Christ than having the right label. What needs to be shown, is that EENS does not constitute a denial of the gracious character of the Gospel. The moment it becomes a mere legalism, it is deadly.​

JGC , you have a very peaceable and constructive attitude ##

 

[sherilo]

Sean O L:

Yes, blame the faulty vehicle for the accident - the driver and passengers may be completely blameless.

This is so true! It is no secret that we are all products of our own environments. There is no way that someone who is brought up Protestant can understand Catholicism without the promptings of the Holy Spirit, a genuine longing for truth and a lot of study and prayer.
It is also true that there are many Christian protestants who love our Lord Jesus Christ,and try to lead holy lives filled with good works. They do not have the sacraments and the fullness of the Catholic church, but they are as holy as they can be wrt what they have been taught from birth. That is why I love the term “separated brethen” ;IMO the emphasis should be on the “brethren.”
Just one more thing. As some have mentioned, using his present tactics, Marineboy will win no one to the Catholic faith. This reminds of something that happened to me about 20 years ago that I will never forget. I was attending an independant fundamentalist Baptist church. That was about the time that I began my search for God. At that time, I knew nothing about the Catholic church except for the fact that I would not even have considered searching for God there. The preacher was giving one in a series of sermons on the problems with different faiths. I thought that to be a strange concept for a sermon. That week, he was discussing the errors of Catholicism. I don’t remember anything about the sermon except for when he shouted “Catholics have Christ on the cross; I say get him down from the cross, he is risen!” I did not know what he meant by that. I only knew that he was using his authority to be extremely uncharitable to another religion, and it put me off. It undermined my trust in him because that did not sound like the love of God. I left that church shortly afterward, and wandered around for 20 years before finally understanding where God wanted me to be–in the Catholic church where I was baptized as an infant. But, I guarantee that had I ever run across a Catholic with the same bully tactics as that Baptist preacher, I would have run in the other direction.
Just my two cents.

Peace,
Sherilo

 

[wabrams]

## By what means: massacre ? Inquisition ? giving the bishops the powers they used to have to try scases of heresy ? murder, perhaps ? imprisonment, exile, torture, confiscation of property ? All these have been tried, and all have hurt the Church far more than they have hurt others.

Protestantism has done a great deal of good, and Catholicism, a great deal of harm. Both have many faults, so an accusation meant for one, often applies as much to the other.

I know how enormous a debt I owe to my Protestant background, and I’m unspeakably grateful for all the good it did me. The CC can learn a great deal from Protestants - we are saved by the same all-gracious God, after all.

Protestantism exists because Catholicism is not as faithful to Christ as it needs to be; it’s a rebuke to the Church, in part. If Christians live like devils, who is going to be impressed by their Christ-like lives ? It is not enough to profess right doctrines - we need also to live Christ-like lives; then there would be no scandals or errors or abuses or cover-ups or evils of any kind. That there are Christians outside the Church, is in some degree the fault of Catholics. Vatican II admitted this, and to do so was one of the most important things the Church could have done. People would not leave the Church, if their spiritual hunger and thirst were being satisfied within it. If it is not, they will go elsewhere until it is. If bishops ignored their dioceses - except for the money they could get from it - and priests were barely even literate, no wonder people left the Church. And no wonder: at least they could get some nourishment from Calvin and Luther and others - which is a thousand times better than starving within the Church entirely unfed.

I don’t think some Catholics realise just what a chaotic mess the Church was in. ##

This “believe or be damned” attitude really gets to me - and it often goes hand-in-hand with three things: lack of attention to why the Church is necessary; neglect of Vatican II and teaching since then; and, most important of all, lack of attention to Christ. The Church is nothing at all without Christ: she is meaningless, irrelevant, and worthless without Him. A Muslim with charity - and is God too small or weak to grant such a grace ? - is nearer Christ than an orthodox Catholic without charity. Orthodoxy by itself is as deadening as any other legalism - until the Holy Spirit enlivens it within those who hold to it. There is far more to Christ than having the right label. What needs to be shown, is that EENS does not constitute a denial of the gracious character of the Gospel. The moment it becomes a mere legalism, it is deadly.​

JGC , you have a very peaceable and constructive attitude ##

Whoa!! That has to be one of the most intelligent things I’ve heard about Protestants and Catholics. Good job!

 

[sherilo]

## By what means: massacre ? Inquisition ? giving the bishops the powers they used to have to try scases of heresy ? murder, perhaps ? imprisonment, exile, torture, confiscation of property ? All these have been tried, and all have hurt the Church far more than they have hurt others.

Protestantism has done a great deal of good, and Catholicism, a great deal of harm. Both have many faults, so an accusation meant for one, often applies as much to the other.

I know how enormous a debt I owe to my Protestant background, and I’m unspeakably grateful for all the good it did me. The CC can learn a great deal from Protestants - we are saved by the same all-gracious God, after all.

Protestantism exists because Catholicism is not as faithful to Christ as it needs to be; it’s a rebuke to the Church, in part. If Christians live like devils, who is going to be impressed by their Christ-like lives ? It is not enough to profess right doctrines - we need also to live Christ-like lives; then there would be no scandals or errors or abuses or cover-ups or evils of any kind. That there are Christians outside the Church, is in some degree the fault of Catholics. Vatican II admitted this, and to do so was one of the most important things the Church could have done. People would not leave the Church, if their spiritual hunger and thirst were being satisfied within it. If it is not, they will go elsewhere until it is. If bishops ignored their dioceses - except for the money they could get from it - and priests were barely even literate, no wonder people left the Church. And no wonder: at least they could get some nourishment from Calvin and Luther and others - which is a thousand times better than starving within the Church entirely unfed.

I don’t think some Catholics realise just what a chaotic mess the Church was in. ##

This “believe or be damned” attitude really gets to me - and it often goes hand-in-hand with three things: lack of attention to why the Church is necessary; neglect of Vatican II and teaching since then; and, most important of all, lack of attention to Christ. The Church is nothing at all without Christ: she is meaningless, irrelevant, and worthless without Him. A Muslim with charity - and is God too small or weak to grant such a grace ? - is nearer Christ than an orthodox Catholic without charity. Orthodoxy by itself is as deadening as any other legalism - until the Holy Spirit enlivens it within those who hold to it. There is far more to Christ than having the right label. What needs to be shown, is that EENS does not constitute a denial of the gracious character of the Gospel. The moment it becomes a mere legalism, it is deadly.​

##

This is a beautiful and honest post! A message needed to remind us all to whom we owe our lives.

Sherilo

 

[philipmarus]

My first question is why is it assumed that the Church in Acts 2 is automatically considered to be the Roman Catholic church? If my church history serves me correctly, the Roman Catholic church wasn’t officially established until the time of Constantine, which was hundreds of years later.

First, the term “Roman Catholic Church” is a term of perjorative by anti-catholic apologists but it has no reference in history until after the Reformation. It has become a general tip-off to me as a means of identifying literature hostile to the Catholic faith since it never appears in any church documents from Christ to Vatican II.

Second, the idea that the RCC (as some prefer to call it) was founded after Constantine is total rubbish and serious casts doubt on what passes for history in some circles.Prior to my own converting, I attended a Fundamentalist church where this was taught. However, the total falsity of this notion quickly comes apart at the seams upon examining the primary history of the Apolostolic History (A.D 33 - 325 A.D).

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

john654:

Hello,

Most of the so called Catholics in the Chuch I attende in Gorden Grove Ca. are Protestants, and they don’t even know it. the truth always sounds like a 2x4. It IS a two edge sword. Protestants are tearing the catholic CXhurch apart. STARTING with the pill! Catholic are afraid of offence. I live in Nashville Tennessee. TRUST ME, I know alot of Protestants, and they are EXACTLY like the “Protestants” Catholics I knew in California. I have three of them looking into the Catholic faith. ALL of them thank me for my frankness about the truth of Jesus Christ. jesus is NOT A WIMP! JESUS IS KING!

It’s a WAR!

John

Some truth in what you say