Protestant Beliefs Not in the Bible

[sabrinaofmn]

I am making a list of Protestant beliefs not in the Bible. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. My husband and I are converting because of a rejection of sola scriptura, and I am interested to hear what Protestant doctrines aren’t in the Bible. Here is my list for starters:

· Sanctity of life – life begins at conception
· Monogamy – John Milton and Martin Luther both taught it was okay to be polygamous
· The closure of public revelation
· The Trinity
· The canon of scripture – the word Bible doesn’t even appear in the Bible
· Tithing 10%
· The office of the Pastor
· Jesus pre-existence
· Sola scriptura
·· All sin is equal
· Just war
· Age of accountability
· Slain in the spirit

 

[Jermosh]

Sorry but I am unsure what your talking about. The Catholic Church teachs some of those things Could you specify what you mean by the

Trinity,
Sanctity of Life,
Tithing 10%
Office of Pastor
Jesus Pre-Existence
Age of accoutabilty
Just War
Slain in spirit

Are you saying that these are Protostent only doctrine? And that they are not in the Bible?

Confused…

 

[bengal_fan]

first off, i should say i am also converting. secondly, this list is very mistaken.

sabrinaofmn:

I am making a list of Protestant beliefs not in the Bible. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. My husband and I are converting because of a rejection of sola scriptura, and I am interested to hear what Protestant doctrines aren’t in the Bible. Here is my list for starters:

· Sanctity of life – life begins at conception

can be alluded to when God commands a punishment if some one attacks a pregnant woman and the unborn baby is killed (leviticus)

sabrinaofmn:

· Monogamy – John Milton and Martin Luther both taught it was okay to be polygamous

paul began the teaching of monogamy by commanding all overseers (prebyters meaning overseer, bishop or pastor which deals with another of your list)

sabrinaofmn:

· The closure of public revelation

protestants use the verse (although out of context it is used…from the bible…to “prove” the closure of public revelation) from revelations cursing anyone who adds or takes away from the book.

sabrinaofmn:

· The Trinity

are you serious with this one?? granted the actual word “trinity” isn’t in the bible but the scriptures are replete with evidence for this doctrine and is an easy deduction.

sabrinaofmn:

· The canon of scripture – the word Bible doesn’t even appear in the Bible

you are right here, the canon (which books are to be included, if any, in the bible)

sabrinaofmn:

· Tithing 10%

again…are you serious. it’s all over the old testament. yes, paul relieved us of this obligation but he did not cancel out the blessings if we participate in this. in fact, tithing is the only thing God tells us to test Him in (in malachi, He says if we trust Him in giving 10%, He will open the floodgates of heaven)

sabrinaofmn:

· The office of the Pastor

see above

sabrinaofmn:

· Jesus pre-existence

again, it is talked about all over the bible. did you research this list? if so, your source is horrible.

sabrinaofmn:

· Sola scriptura
· All sin is equal

again, i agree with you

sabrinaofmn:

· Just war

wrong, everywhere God commands war shows us that there are just wars.

sabrinaofmn:

· Age of accountability

if you mean that there will not come a time of judgement, you are wrong. if you mean we are not supposed to confess to one another you are wrong. if you mean that there is not different stages of what we are accountable to based upon our knowledge you are wrong (they are all scripturally supported)

sabrinaofmn:

· Slain in the spirit

you are right, but it does talk about being filled with the Holy Spirit (and paul is addressing those who are already believers and are indwelt with the Holy Spirit already) so they do have an argument.

also, not every protestant believes everything on this list and to lump them all in together is wrong. just because the exact english phrasing isn’t in the bible doesn’t meant that there is no biblical argument for it. not every catholic doctrine can be found in scripture but there is a strong biblical argument for every single one. let’s try to be more careful in our attacks (as that is what this is, an attempt to make our separated brethren look stupid)

 

[csr]

A very nice web site to visit is ScriptureCatholic.com. It isn’t exactly what you are asking about, but it should be of interest. Protestant beliefs “not in the Bible” certainly include “sola scriptura” and the more novel “the Rapture”. However, Protestants believe their ideas are in the Bible, or what they call the Bible. And they believe that Catholic theology is not in the Bible. One of the keys, then, is to discern who has the right to say what is valid Church theology and what isn’t. One of the keys, indeed! (Mt 16:19) What’s really missing is to demonstrate how religion works. Once a person grasps the methodology, the Church is the obvious answer. As long as one is focused on imagining that the texts indicate one thing or another, he’ll buck and duck any change to his present way of thinking, and imagine that the other guy is doing likewise.

Protestants have all sorts of strange theories within what they think is the economy of salvation. They cite bits of Scripture to support their ideas. Their ideas are not in Scripture, but they’ll strongly avouch that they are. So again, the key is to demonstrate how the Church works. It’s monarchical and hierarchical, and it has the keys. Without the Church there is no Bible, and there is no cogent meaning. Our Lord did not say, ‘Go out and write a Bible; thou shalt read this and make up your own conclusions and be saved.’

---

et curabant contritionem filiæ populi mei cum ignominia dicentes
pax pax et non erat pax Jer 6:14

 

[tru_dvotion]

Sabrina,

I am not clear what you are trying to do.

We Catholics believe in:
Sanctity of life – life begins at conception
Monogamy
The closure of public revelation
The Trinity
Bible
Tithing
The office of the Pastor
Jesus’ pre-existence
Just war
Age of accountability (age of reason?)

We Catholics do not believe in:
Sola scriptura
All sin is equal
Slain in the spirit: Some Catholics erroneously believe, but there is no scriptural reference of it and it is not part of the Catholic Tradition either. I would say the majority does not believe.

 

[csr]

A lot of Protestant “beliefs” are really un-beliefs. They may not believe in angels, they may not believe in original sin, they may not believe in the Real Presence, they may not believe in the priesthood, they may have no idea how glorious is the Blessed Mother of God. (Some self-identified Catholics may also have difficulties with their own religion.) These un-beliefs can be addressed, using the Scriptures. An important thing to remember about Protestants is that they have been adrift now for a very long time, and have become very fragmented in terms of what they consider to be true.

---

For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts. *

 

[bengal_fan]

tru_dvotion:

We Catholics do not believe in:
Slain in the spirit: Some Catholics erroneously believe, but there is no scriptural reference of it and it is not part of the Catholic Tradition either. I would say the majority does not believe.

so you are saying it is not catholic tradition for people to speak in tonuges and heal? i think you need to re-read your history. also, it is not erroneous to believe in the miraculous spiritual gifts today and the holy father has affirmed the charismatic catholic movement so to insult your brothers and sisters in the faith by insulting something that brings them so close to God and allows them to experience His power is not right. charismatic catholics teach the “slain in the spirit” differently than pentecostals and the like. although, at times, they do experience the laughter fits and shaking and falling down, none of this has been condemned by the church and has actually been encouraged in certain places. don’t just assume that since you haven’t experienced it, it isn’t valid.

 

[tru_dvotion]

bengal_fan:

so you are saying it is not catholic tradition for people to speak in tonuges and heal? i think you need to re-read your history. also, it is not erroneous to believe in the miraculous spiritual gifts today and the holy father has affirmed the charismatic catholic movement so to insult your brothers and sisters in the faith by insulting something that brings them so close to God and allows them to experience His power is not right. charismatic catholics teach the “slain in the spirit” differently than pentecostals and the like. although, at times, they do experience the laughter fits and shaking and falling down, none of this has been condemned by the church and has actually been encouraged in certain places. don’t just assume that since you haven’t experienced it, it isn’t valid.

You are assumptions are quite wrong. I was in the “renewal” for many, many years, and I know it from the inside out. I have also experienced all those things. But being slain in the spirit, having laughing fits and shaking was never Catholic until it was brought into the Church via the Protestant Pentecostal Movement. You are incorrect in your assessment that Catholics teach it differently from Pentecostals. It is exactly the same thing. We have great wealth of mystical writing from our saints and mystics. None have spoken of such phenomena.

 

[prodromos]

Altar calls.

 

[tru_dvotion]

continued:

There is no evidence in the Bible or in Catholic Tradition for falling down or falling backward. The Holy Spirit does not knock people over to anoint them. Show me one line from the Bible or give me one evidence from the lives of the saints. No such thing exists. Falling backward in scripture is none other than coming under the judgment of God.

“Let Dan be a serpent by the roadside, a horned viper by the path, that bites the horse’s heel, so that the rider tumbles backward.” Genesis 49:17

“So for them the word of the LORD shall be: “Command on command, command on command, Rule on rule, rule on rule, here a little, there a little!” So that when they walk, they stumble backward, broken, ensnared, and captured.” Isaiah 28:13

“When he said to them, “I AM,” they turned away and fell to the ground.” John 18:6

“At this mention of the ark of God, Eli fell backward from his chair into the gateway; since he was an old man and heavy, he died of a broken neck.”** 1st Samuel 4:18**

“He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” Acts 9:-4 (Saul fell in fear, this was a judgment on him not an anointing.)

 

[tru_dvotion]

continued:

When people fall down in worship, they fall on their faces; forward and voluntarily and they prostrate themselves in reverence.

“When Abram prostrated himself, God continued to speak to him” Genesis 17:3

“He replied, “Neither. I am the captain of the host of the LORD and I have just arrived.” Then Joshua fell prostrate to the ground in worship, and said to him, “What has my lord to say to his servant?” Joshua 5:14

“Like the bow which appears in the clouds on a rainy day was the splendor that surrounded him. Such was the vision of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I had seen it, I fell upon my face and heard a voice that said to me” **Ezekiel **1:28

“When the disciples heard this, they fell prostrate and were very much afraid.”** Matthew 17:6**

“and he fell at the feet of Jesus and thanked him. He was a Samaritan.”** Luke 17:16**

“All the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They prostrated themselves before the throne, worshiped God,” **Revelation **7:11

“The twenty-four elders who sat on their thrones before God prostrated themselves and worshiped God” **Revelation **11:16

There must be more examples, but one thing is for sure:

Judgment from God > falling down or falling backward. In this case the Spirit convicts.

Adoration of God > falling face forward on the ground. In this case the Spirit anoints.

 

[Ana_Reus]

Hello Tru_Devotion,

You said:
There is no evidence in the Bible or in Catholic Tradition for falling down or falling backward. The Holy Spirit does not knock people over to anoint them. Show me one line from the Bible or give me one evidence from the lives of the saints. No such thing exists. Falling backward in scripture is none other than coming under the judgment of God.

Obviously you have never heard of Teresa de Avila.
Ana_Reus

 

[bengal_fan]

Ana_Reus:

Hello Tru_Devotion,

You said:
There is no evidence in the Bible or in Catholic Tradition for falling down or falling backward. The Holy Spirit does not knock people over to anoint them. Show me one line from the Bible or give me one evidence from the lives of the saints. No such thing exists. Falling backward in scripture is none other than coming under the judgment of God.

Obviously you have never heard of Teresa de Avila.

                Ana_Reus

exactly who i was thinking of. thanks ana. and tru, i did not mean to attack you, i wrote my post late at night and reading it again now see that i was very harsh. you are right when you say there is no biblical example (thank goodness we don’t rely on scripture alone huh?). but there are examples from believer’s lives and teresa de avila is one.

 

[tru_dvotion]

bengal_fan:

exactly who i was thinking of. thanks ana. and tru, i did not mean to attack you, i wrote my post late at night and reading it again now see that i was very harsh. you are right when you say there is no biblical example (thank goodness we don’t rely on scripture alone huh?). but there are examples from believer’s lives and teresa de avila is one.

No offence taken. Not exactly… she was never slain in the spirit, AKA falling backwards with somebody catching her or smashing her head on the floor. I know her writings very well and the Interior Castle is one of my favorites.

 

[Shibboleth]

csr:

A lot of Protestant “beliefs” are really un-beliefs. They may not believe in angels,

yes we do

they may not believe in original sin,

Yes we do

they may not believe in the Real Presence,

yes we do

they may not believe in the priesthood

Yes we do

,

they may have no idea how glorious is the Blessed Mother of God.

yes we do

 

[bengal_fan]

tru_dvotion:

No offence taken. Not exactly… she was never slain in the spirit, AKA falling backwards with somebody catching her or smashing her head on the floor. I know her writings very well and the Interior Castle is one of my favorites.

you are right in that not exactly but it is somewhat similar. also, she experienced God in a different way than most anyone (if not anyone) before her. by our standards today, we might not have considered her experiences valid. i am not trying to justify the fake practices of many (protestants and catholics alike) but i am trying to say that although the term “slain in the spirit” isn’t in the bible, it doesn’t mean that the effects are invalid. maybe we needed a new term to describe what was happening (much like we needed a term like trinity to define what actually exists in heaven between the three persons of the one God).

 

[thisismyusrname]

Jermosh:

Are you saying that these are Protostent only doctrine? And that they are not in the Bible?

Confused…

No, I don’t think she was saying they are believed only by Protestants and not Catholics. Her point was to show that these doctrines are not found in Scripture, and thus if a Protestant believes them they can not also accept Sola Scriptura.

Some of them, however, i think may be supported by Scripture.

 

[bengal_fan]

thisismyusrname:
iloveyourusername

 

[thisismyusrname]

Quote:
Originally Posted by csr
*A lot of Protestant “beliefs” are really un-beliefs. They may not believe in angels, *

yes we do

Quote:
they may not believe in original sin,
Yes we do

Quote:
they may not believe in the Real Presence,
yes we do

Quote:
they may not believe in the priesthood
Yes we do

,
Quote:
they may have no idea how glorious is the Blessed Mother of God.
yes we do

First of all, note that he says “MAY not”, not ruling out the possibility of Protestants believing in these doctrines.

Most do NOT believe the Real Presence, nor do they give the honor and reverence to Mary that Catholics do or accept the doctrines concerning Mary (Mother of God, the Immaculate Conception, Assumption, Perpetual Virginity, Mediatrix, and calling her Mother of God). I also do not think most Protestants accept the Sacramental Priesthood as we Catholics do.

 

[sabrinaofmn]

bengal_fan:

first off, i should say i am also converting. secondly, this list is very mistaken.

can be alluded to when God commands a punishment if some one attacks a pregnant woman and the unborn baby is killed (leviticus)

This doesn’t prove that life begins at conception, only that the woman should be compensated for the loss of the baby that she would have had at a future date. Her loss is not in no longer being pregnant but in the opportunity cost of not having a baby later on. Again, I don’t find an explicit statement that life begins at conception in the Bible.

paul began the teaching of monogamy by commanding all overseers (prebyters meaning overseer, bishop or pastor which deals with another of your list)

Paul’s command did not apply to lay people.

protestants use the verse (although out of context it is used…from the bible…to “prove” the closure of public revelation) from revelations cursing anyone who adds or takes away from the book.

You don’t site a verse.

are you serious with this one?? granted the actual word “trinity” isn’t in the bible but the scriptures are replete with evidence for this doctrine and is an easy deduction.

The Trinity is not explicitly stated in scripture. Yes, it is implicitly stated, but not explicitly stated. Not to get off the subject, but there are also many verses that support that the Trinity does not exist. Tradition is the primary support for the Trinity.

you are right here, the canon (which books are to be included, if any, in the bible)

again…are you serious. it’s all over the old testament. yes, paul relieved us of this obligation but he did not cancel out the blessings if we participate in this. in fact, tithing is the only thing God tells us to test Him in (in malachi, He says if we trust Him in giving 10%, He will open the floodgates of heaven)

Tithing is an OT teaching and no longer applies to believers. Catholics are not bound to tithe any more than they are bound to OT dietary laws. Every Protestant church that I ever attended preached tithing as binding upon believers.

again, it is talked about all over the bible. did you research this list? if so, your source is horrible.

Jesus’ pre-existence is not explicitly stated in scripture. Instead of making derogatory comments, please site a scripture.

wrong, everywhere God commands war shows us that there are just wars.

Again, you will only find this in the OT.

if you mean that there will not come a time of judgement, you are wrong. if you mean we are not supposed to confess to one another you are wrong. if you mean that there is not different stages of what we are accountable to based upon our knowledge you are wrong (they are all scripturally supported)

Again, site your scriptural support for the age of accountability. I contend that the age of accountability is supported by Tradition, but you won’t find it explicitly stated in Scripture.

you are right, but it does talk about being filled with the Holy Spirit (and paul is addressing those who are already believers and are indwelt with the Holy Spirit already) so they do have an argument.

also, not every protestant believes everything on this list and to lump them all in together is wrong. just because the exact english phrasing isn’t in the bible doesn’t meant that there is no biblical argument for it. not every catholic doctrine can be found in scripture but there is a strong biblical argument for every single one. let’s try to be more careful in our attacks (as that is what this is, an attempt to make our separated brethren look stupid)