Protestant beliefs?

[whatevergirl]

Hello!

I was listening to Charles Stanley a few mornings ago, and he said…‘There’s nothing I need to do, to get into Heaven. Jesus paid my sin debt in full. I’m already forgiven for my sins.’ Ok…as a Catholic, I believe that Jesus’ death on the cross is what ultimately makes Heaven ‘available’ to any of us…HOWEVER, what puzzled me was Dr Stanley went onto say that ‘I don’t have to work for it.’ Now, just so we are on the same page, as a Catholic, I don’t believe that there is anything I can do, to replace the awesome gift Jesus gave to mankind…His own life for its sins. That being said though, it seemed like Dr Stanley was implying that there are ‘other’ religions that believe one needs to do something or act like something to gain eternal salvation. Again…I personally do not believe that I can ‘work’ or ‘earn’ my way into Heaven. The price has been paid by Christ…but, what IS my responsibility as a Christian to accepting His love for me?

Paul said, ‘‘Faith without works is dead.’’ Now, what type of works does he mean? He means…to ‘say’ we are saved or born again, we also must live the Christian life. If we act a completely different way than we preach…then, will God still accept us? If I break the commandments, yet preach to high Heavens…‘I’ve been saved…’ will I be saved?

What is the Protestant belief about that? I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Hello!

I was listening to Charles Stanley a few mornings ago, and he said…‘There’s nothing I need to do, to get into Heaven. Jesus paid my sin debt in full. I’m already forgiven for my sins.’ Ok…as a Catholic, I believe that Jesus’ death on the cross is what ultimately makes Heaven ‘available’ to any of us…HOWEVER, what puzzled me was Dr Stanley went onto say that ‘I don’t have to work for it.’ Now, just so we are on the same page, as a Catholic, I don’t believe that there is anything I can do, to replace the awesome gift Jesus gave to mankind…His own life for its sins. That being said though, it seemed like Dr Stanley was implying that there are ‘other’ religions that believe one needs to do something or act like something to gain eternal salvation. Again…I personally do not believe that I can ‘work’ or ‘earn’ my way into Heaven. The price has been paid by Christ…but, what IS my responsibility as a Christian to accepting His love for me?

Paul said, ‘‘Faith without works is dead.’’ Now, what type of works does he mean? He means…to ‘say’ we are saved or born again, we also must live the Christian life. If we act a completely different way than we preach…then, will God still accept us? If I break the commandments, yet preach to high Heavens…‘I’ve been saved…’ will I be saved?

What is the Protestant belief about that? I look forward to hearing from you.

I have seen this brought up before… as a protestant I wanted to throw in what I have been taught…

Yes, Faith without works is dead. But as we all know (catholic and protestant alike) you can’t work your way into Heaven. So where does that leave us? Faith, with a capital ‘F’, is more than just believing. Our Faith is our being, who we are, what we see, what we do, and ultimately what and who we portray God to be to those who haven’t opened their eyes and hearts to Him. Our Faith cannot be evident and live on in us without obeying God’s Word and Commandments. Here is where the ‘works’ come into play. You can’t have Faith without ‘works’ because 'F’aith brings works naturally. Because God is a part of WHO I am I could not have Faith in Him and claim that Faith without trying to follow Him and His Word. Does this make any sense? I have a tendancy to muddle my thoughts sometimes…

 

[whatevergirl]

I have seen this brought up before… as a protestant I wanted to throw in what I have been taught…

Yes, Faith without works is dead. But as we all know (catholic and protestant alike) you can’t work your way into Heaven. So where does that leave us? Faith, with a capital ‘F’, is more than just believing. Our Faith is our being, who we are, what we see, what we do, and ultimately what and who we portray God to be to those who haven’t opened their eyes and hearts to Him. Our Faith cannot be evident and live on in us without obeying God’s Word and Commandments. Here is where the ‘works’ come into play. You can’t have Faith without ‘works’ because 'F’aith brings works naturally. Because God is a part of WHO I am I could not have Faith in Him and claim that Faith without trying to follow Him and His Word. Does this make any sense? I have a tendancy to muddle my thoughts sometimes…

why are Catholics and Protestants separated then…we agree!!! (I know, it’s not so cut and dry)

 

[TheGarg]

I have seen this brought up before… as a protestant I wanted to throw in what I have been taught…

Yes, Faith without works is dead. But as we all know (catholic and protestant alike) you can’t work your way into Heaven. So where does that leave us? Faith, with a capital ‘F’, is more than just believing. Our Faith is our being, who we are, what we see, what we do, and ultimately what and who we portray God to be to those who haven’t opened their eyes and hearts to Him. Our Faith cannot be evident and live on in us without obeying God’s Word and Commandments. Here is where the ‘works’ come into play. You can’t have Faith without ‘works’ because 'F’aith brings works naturally. Because God is a part of WHO I am I could not have Faith in Him and claim that Faith without trying to follow Him and His Word. Does this make any sense? I have a tendancy to muddle my thoughts sometimes…

notice the highlighted text…while true , it is impossible to work our way to heaven, it is at the same time possible to “NOT WORK” our way to Hell …this is made very clear in Scripture and Tradition.

in other words, the works themselves can’t save us, but not doing them can damn us for sure. if anyone doubts this just read the Gospels…it is not to hard to see this.]

something to be thought about. …

 

[TheGarg]

why are Catholics and Protestants separated then…we agree!!! (I know, it’s not so cut and dry)

unfortunately , and htis is not a personal attack on any one or any denom, but pride and ignorance. MOST protestandts i know have Know ideat why they are protestants, and believe catholicism to be something different than christiantity… i a speaing on a human level, not doctrine levels ] ALOT of catholics don’t even know what the Church teaches.

 

[jonfan]

Hi Sharon,
From being on these forums it seems that Protestants are afraid of legalism. Anything that has to do with works are bad. If I am wrong on this than I apologize as I know there are many different Protestant denominations. They feel Catholics take it too far and our faith is “man made”. When in reality, and I mean no offense here, it takes a lot more faith to be Catholic. We believe that the Eucharist is Christ. We believe once baptised we are a member of God’s Church. We believe in the power of Confession. We believe in the sacrament of Confrimation. We believe that holy saints can join in us with prayer as one Body of Christ. That takes a lot of faith. I however am in no way judging Protestants faith in Christ.

God bless,
Jonfan

 

[Mommyof02green]

I have seen this brought up before… as a protestant I wanted to throw in what I have been taught…

Yes, Faith without works is dead. But as we all know (catholic and protestant alike) you can’t work your way into Heaven. So where does that leave us? Faith, with a capital ‘F’, is more than just believing. Our Faith is our being, who we are, what we see, what we do, and ultimately what and who we portray God to be to those who haven’t opened their eyes and hearts to Him. Our Faith cannot be evident and live on in us without obeying God’s Word and Commandments. Here is where the ‘works’ come into play. You can’t have Faith without ‘works’ because 'F’aith brings works naturally. Because God is a part of WHO I am I could not have Faith in Him and claim that Faith without trying to follow Him and His Word. Does this make any sense? I have a tendancy to muddle my thoughts sometimes…

I read your post…and I thought to myself this sound just like what I read in Pillar of Fire; Pillar of Truth! Here is short quote from Pillar of Fire; Pillar of Truth
Pillar of Fire; Pillar of Truth:

Jesus said it is not enough to have faith in him; we also must obey his commandments. “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but do not do the things I command?” (Luke 6:46, Matt. 7:21–23, 19:16–21).

We do not “earn” our salvation through good works (Eph. 2:8–9, Rom. 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life (Rom. 2:7, Gal. 6:8–9).

Paul said, “God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work” (Phil. 2:13). John explained that “the way we may be sure that we know him is to keep his commandments. Whoever says, ‘I know him,’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:3–4, 3:19–24, 5:3–4).

Since no gift can be forced on the recipient—gifts always can be rejected—even after we become justified, we can throw away the gift of salvation. We throw it away through grave (mortal) sin (John 15:5–6, Rom. 11:22–23, 1 Cor. 15:1–2; CCC 1854–1863). Paul tells us, “The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23).

Read his letters and see how often Paul warned Christians against sin! He would not have felt compelled to do so if their sins could not exclude them from heaven (see, for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10, Gal. 5:19–21).

Paul reminded the Christians in Rome that God “will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness” (Rom. 2:6–8).

Sins are nothing but evil works (CCC 1849–1850). We can avoid sins by habitually performing good works. Every saint has known that the best way to keep free from sins is to embrace regular prayer, the sacraments (the Eucharist first of all), and charitable acts.

To read more from Pillar of Fire; Pillar of Truth see: catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

 

[StFrancissaveus]

Hello!

I was listening to Charles Stanley a few mornings ago, and he said…‘There’s nothing I need to do, to get into Heaven. Jesus paid my sin debt in full. I’m already forgiven for my sins.’ Ok…as a Catholic, I believe that Jesus’ death on the cross is what ultimately makes Heaven ‘available’ to any of us…HOWEVER, what puzzled me was Dr Stanley went onto say that ‘I don’t have to work for it.’ Now, just so we are on the same page, as a Catholic, I don’t believe that there is anything I can do, to replace the awesome gift Jesus gave to mankind…His own life for its sins. That being said though, it seemed like Dr Stanley was implying that there are ‘other’ religions that believe one needs to do something or act like something to gain eternal salvation. Again…I personally do not believe that I can ‘work’ or ‘earn’ my way into Heaven. The price has been paid by Christ…but, what IS my responsibility as a Christian to accepting His love for me?

Paul said, ‘‘Faith without works is dead.’’ Now, what type of works does he mean? He means…to ‘say’ we are saved or born again, we also must live the Christian life. If we act a completely different way than we preach…then, will God still accept us? If I break the commandments, yet preach to high Heavens…‘I’ve been saved…’ will I be saved?

What is the Protestant belief about that? I look forward to hearing from you.

This may have been addressed already but it was James, not Paul, who said faith w/o works is dead

 

[Syele]

it is at the same time possible to “NOT WORK” our way to Hell

This is the real difference between Catholics and Protestants. Protestants don’t think you can work your way to hell nearly as easily as Catholics think they can. (And OSAS people would say a real Christian can’t work their way to Hell at all.)

 

[JoeyWarren]

This is the real difference between Catholics and Protestants. Protestants don’t think you can work your way to hell nearly as easily as Catholics think they can. (And OSAS people would say a real Christian can’t work their way to Hell at all.)

I’ll second that.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

The difference between Prots and Catholics is that Prots say we are saved by faith alone, and Catholics teach that we are saved by GRACE alone. Big BIG BIG difference.

What is grace, where does it come from, how do we “get” it, what does it do? Once you answer those questions, “works” become a mute issue.

We are saved by grace, i.e. the infinite unmerited favor of God. Grace is available to us most easily through the sacraments, it cleanses us from sin and it empowers us to resist sin and to do good works.

Works do not save us, never have and never will, they can’t. Because, salvation comes first and works (the result of being saved) come after.

How do we know this? Because we practice infant baptism. A baby is baptized (saved if you will) before it even knows what sin is. A baby couldn’t do a good work if you paid him cash money. So the baby receives the grace of baptism, is in a state of grace, is saved and subsequently does good works.

Charles Stanley was correct, there is nothing we need to do to get into heaven. But he doesn’t appear to have addressed the flip side of the question: what about the things we WANT to do because we are saved? If there is nothing a saved person WANTS to do, I think it would be fair to question whether or not he is truly saved.

Marsha

 

[Syele]

I disagree with faith alone meaning Without grace. we are saved by Grace Through Faith. Sola Fide was ment to exclude works in Justification, not to exclude EVERYTHING except faith. The Solas were not ment to be seperated.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

We are saved by Grace Alone. Faith is merely the vehicle for exercising that grace. Faith is a subset of Grace.

Marsha

 

[Evan]

Hello!

I was listening to Charles Stanley a few mornings ago, and he said…‘There’s nothing I need to do, to get into Heaven. Jesus paid my sin debt in full. I’m already forgiven for my sins.’ Ok…as a Catholic, I believe that Jesus’ death on the cross is what ultimately makes Heaven ‘available’ to any of us…

What I see Mr Stanley claiming is that we are all saved. Even those who do not believe.

The debt, our redemption, is paid(redeemed) in full. But our salvation is more than what Jesus did, we also must accept this redemption to be saved, ie have faith and as the Church would put it… have FAITH (saved via a Formed Faith by living the theological virtues of Faith Hope and Charity. Faith being an intelectual assent, and FAITH including the works that come from a Formed Faith.)

As James also writes, even the Demon believe in the existence and actions of Jesus. Believe that we are saved by that, but they do not become saved because they know this intellectually, but are damned because they reject the love and forgiveness and do not approach God with a humility that is part of having a Formed Faith.

 

[TheGarg]

This is the real difference between Catholics and Protestants. Protestants don’t think you can work your way to hell nearly as easily as Catholics think they can. (And OSAS people would say a real Christian can’t work their way to Hell at all.)

you missed what i said…

you can “NOT work” your way in to hell…

“not work” = DO NOTHING

matthew 25:35-50 [approx]
sepertion of sheep and goats…

and there are many more instances in scirpture about the consequence of “do nothing” …

we CAN’T earn our way to heaven, but we most certainly CAN earn our way to hell, especially by “doing nothing” …

 

[jonfan]

Works are important though once you accept Christ.

1 Peter 2

2:11. Dearly beloved, I beseech you, as strangers and pilgrims, to refrain yourselves from carnal desires which war against the soul,

2:12. Having your conversation good among the Gentiles: that whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may, **by the good works which they shall behold in you, glorify God **in the day of visitation.

2:13. Be ye subject therefore to every human creature for God’s sake: whether it be to the king as excelling,

2:14. Or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of the good.

2:15. **For so is the will of God, that by doing well you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: **

2:16. As free and not as making liberty a cloak for malice, but as the servants of God.

 

[Syele]

you missed what i said…

you can “NOT work” your way in to hell…

“not work” = DO NOTHING

matthew 25:35-50 [approx]
sepertion of sheep and goats…

and there are many more instances in scirpture about the consequence of “do nothing” …

we CAN’T earn our way to heaven, but we most certainly CAN earn our way to hell, especially by “doing nothing” …

Actually, I did see the “NOT work”, but really how much different is not doing the right thing than doing a wrong thing? To me they are the same. It’s called sin.

 

[Syele]

Works are important though once you accept Christ.

1 Peter 2

2:11. Dearly beloved, I beseech you, as strangers and pilgrims, to refrain yourselves from carnal desires which war against the soul,

2:12. Having your conversation good among the Gentiles: that whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may, **by the good works which they shall behold in you, glorify God **in the day of visitation.

2:13. Be ye subject therefore to every human creature for God’s sake: whether it be to the king as excelling,

2:14. Or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of the good.

2:15. **For so is the will of God, that by doing well you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: **

2:16. As free and not as making liberty a cloak for malice, but as the servants of God.

I agree they are important, just as part of Sanctification, not Justification. Most other protestants think they are important too.

 

[jonfan]

I agree they are important, just as part of Sanctification, not Justification. Most other protestants think they are important too.

Hi Syele,
Can you define how one works to be sanctified?

Thanks and God bless,
Jonfan

 

[Syele]

Hi Syele,
Can you define how one works to be sanctified?

Thanks and God bless,
Jonfan

I’m not good at explaining it in my own words so I will snip some others words…italics mine.

From my Daughters Catechism book:

1. What is sanctification? Sanctification is God’s making me holy in heart and behavior. (I Corinthians 6:11, 19-20; Ephesians 1:3-4,4,22-24; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; II Timothy 2:1921; Hebrews 13:12, 2!)

61. **What are the two parts       of sanctification? **The two parts of sanctification are dying to sin and *living       to righteousness*. (Galatians 2:20; Colossians 3:5; Romans 8:13)

Ray Steadman:

1. Sanctification is that work of God within the regenerate person through the indwelling Holy Spirit, in which the believer by faith grows into the image of Christ and displays the fruit of the Spirit. The imputed righteous of Christ comes at conversion, but the actual righteousness in daily behavior comes through sanctification in which the believer is made pure in life. One is set apart to God (positionally sanctified) at the time of conversion, and grows to Christ-likeness during life (moral sanctification).

{snip}

1. Sanctification is obeying by faith every commandment of God believing that the requisite power will be supplied no matter how one feels. Every step of faith-obedience brings a measure of growth or sanctification. Every step makes us more able to put away sin and to put on Christ. Every sin makes it easier to fall deeper into the clinging web of sin. Sin stops growth and if not repented of will turn into backsliding. Every step of faith increases the speed of sanctification, but will never eliminate the struggle between the flesh and the Spirit.
2. The sanctification story of every individual has elements that are common with all other Christians. Sanctification begins with conversion, must be lived by faith, guided by the Scripture, empowered by the Spirit for enablement and is based in the death and resurrection of Christ. For each believer there will also be unique elements that were used by God to being them to dedication, faith and repentance. These unique and personal elements must never be taught as a pattern or paradigm of how God will work in the lives of others.
3. The church plays a key role in sanctification. This is opposed to isolated sanctification apart from relationship. We grow in Christ-likeness in the body, not apart from it. Fulfilling the first commandment results in fulfilling the second one too.