Protestant-Catholic dialogue on Mary, Saints, Church authority, etc

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This is an honest question: why should man ask saints to intercede instead of asking God himself for help? Or is it just for the extra “push?”
 
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sherilo:
I don’t know. I am just coming in to the faith, and that question was not a challenge–it was just a question. Thanks.
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No challenge assumed. The counter-question is a very important one. Scripture does indicate that those in Heaven, both the saints and the angels, are aware of and can intercede for those on Earth. Scripture strongly urges us to intercessory prayer on each other’s behalf. If we are to follow God’s will regarding intercessory prayer on Earth, isn’t it reasonable to believe that we would continue to follow God’s will in Heaven? Or are we to believe that God’s will on Earth differs from God’s in Heaven, despite Jesus Christ’s own words to the contrary?

Now consider the counter-question: What verses of Scripture say that the saints in Heaven cannot pray for us? If there are such verses, then obviously we have a conflict with Scripture itself.

But, as has been noted, there are no verses of Scripture that say the saints in Heaven cannot pray of us.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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mlchance:
Revelation 5:8 and Revelation 8:3-4. See also Matthew 5:44 and 1 Timothy 2:1–4 (for the necessity of intercessory prayer), James 5:16–18 (for the effectiveness of a righteous person’s prayers), and Hebrews 12:22-23 (to show that Christians in Heaven are thoroughly righteous).

Now, what verses of Scripture say that the saints in Heaven cannot pray for us?

– Mark L. Chance.
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Nice try Michance. :confused: God Bless.
 
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mlchance:
Revelation 5:8 and Revelation 8:3-4. See also Matthew 5:44 and 1 Timothy 2:1–4 (for the necessity of intercessory prayer), James 5:16–18 (for the effectiveness of a righteous person’s prayers), and Hebrews 12:22-23 (to show that Christians in Heaven are thoroughly righteous).

Now, what verses of Scripture say that the saints in Heaven cannot pray for us?

– Mark L. Chance.
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OK, I did read this. And maybe I just need more time to see what the church says about these verses, but what does the church say about how the saints in heaven, who were only human, can even hear us?
 
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sherilo:
OK, I did read this. And maybe I just need more time to see what the church says about these verses, but what does the church say about how the saints in heaven, who were only human, can even hear us?
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“With God, all things are possible.”

– Mark L. Chance.
 
mlchance said:
“With God, all things are possible.”

– Mark L. Chance.
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Thats true,but maybe they took thier ears along with thier souls into the kingdom of heaven. :confused: God Bless
 
Dear SPOKENWORD:

You stated:
Thats true,but maybe they took thier ears along with thier souls into the kingdom of heaven. :confused: God Bless
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We as Christians believe in the resurrection of the body, so I guess it’s possible. Do you not believe in the resurrection of the body?

Peace
Fiat
 
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Fiat:
Dear SPOKENWORD:

You stated:

We as Christians believe in the resurrection of the body, so I guess it’s possible. Do you not believe in the resurrection of the body?

Peace
Fiat
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Hi Fiat,Yes I do, but when will that happen? Do we admiately recieve our new bodies? :confused:
God Bless
 
Church Militant:
As you would usually say we walk by faith, not by sight! 👍
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Hi CM, I guess if it worked for me it also works for you. We really dont have all the answers do we? 👍 God Bless.
 
Hi SPOKENWORD:

You said:
Hi Fiat,Yes I do, but when will that happen? Do we admiately recieve our new bodies? :confused:
God Bless
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Beats me. We know from scripture that after Christ’s crucifixion, the dead were seen walking around. I know that the saints hear my prayers, though, because I have personally experienced their very powerful intercession in my life!🙂
Peace,
Fiat
 
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Fiat:
Hi SPOKENWORD:

You said:
Beats me. We know from scripture that after Christ’s crucifixion, the dead were seen walking around. I know that the saints hear my prayers, though, because I have personally experienced their very powerful intercession in my life!🙂
Peace,
Fiat
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Im sure the saints in heaven and the Angels can hear Gods commands. I do have a problem believing that they hear us here on earth.I believe that they can only hear Gods voice.This is only my oppinion because we really will only know when we get there.Everything else is based on assumptions,or personal experiences. 😉 God Bless.
 
Whoa. I only posted this yesterday, and look at the amount of posts 😃

I think the strongest argument for the intercession of Saints that we share in Christ’s eternal priesthood through being in His Body, because intercession is a priestly duty. (see last paragraph of post #2)

God bless,
TTM
 
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Lorarose:
If the protestants want to continue this ridiculous objection to intercessory prayer - then they better get consistent and quit asking for their pastor/family/friends to pray for them!!

Catholics do not believe - as protestants do- that those who have undergone physical death are incapable of intercessory prayer.
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Yes, I think there is definitely a misunderstanding in this area.

Never mind, let us present our case with gentleness and charity, as Peter calls us to do:

“but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence” (1 Peter 3:15)

Bless you all,
TTM
 
Hi Lora,I believe the problem lies in the understanding of Gods Word. God does not speak in error. I disagree with you on that the book of revelation proves that the saints in heaven are praying for us. My understanding is that those Saints in heaven are Gods servants,like the Holy angels.I believe that there days in heaven are now spent worshipping and praising God. The job of praying is for earthly saints. The heavenly Saints only collect them and bring them into the throne room. In that aspect they are interceeding because they are presenting the prayers collected from the earthly saints.I do not see anywhere in scripture that the heavenly saints are themselves praying. Unless you can prove to me that I am in error I retain my belief. God Bless. P/s There are many christians who chase a person for healing rather then to look for the HEALER,Our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Like you said…this is your “understanding” but exactly what is your “understanding” based on?
Exactly where does it say in scripture that the job of praying is reserved only for earthly saints?
Where does it say in scripture that heavenly saints are only collecting these same prayers while they themselves are incapable of intecessory prayer?
Why would they be capable of collecting prayer while incapable of praying?
This makes absolutely no sense to me!

Certainly the heavenly saints are worshipping God and praising God - but exactly where does it specify that is ALL they are doing?
You call them “servants” What if God wished for them to serve him through prayer?
Is it really that unthinkable that they would be aware of earthly affairs - or at the very least remember those they had left behind?
What exactly is stopping them from approching the Lord and saying…“Dear Father could you please give my children strength to go on without me?” or “Dear Jesus - could you please give my cousin a little more time on earth - he just might discover You if given more time?”

Do protestant really restrain themselves from talking to their dead loved ones? Do they really have trouble saying to their dead parents “I’m struggling here - please put in a good word for me with the Big Guy”?

It is my understanding that we are all family - and family members help each other.
I see absolutely no proof that souls in heaven are completely detached from us, and I know from experience that when I personally ask my daughter to pray for me - or a saint - I have received confirmation many times.

Again, I’m left wondering…if protestant get so easily agitated by this catholic practice because they claim to go “straight to Jesus” - then why do they seek prayers from anyone else? Why do they pray for others?
This appears inconsistent to me.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Mark, They also thought the world was flat. 😃 God Bless
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The world being flat has NOTHING to do with faith and morals, and you know it:tsktsk: Come back HOME:crying: God Bless
 
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Lorarose:
Like you said…this is your “understanding” but exactly what is your “understanding” based on?
Exactly where does it say in scripture that the job of praying is reserved only for earthly saints?
Where does it say in scripture that heavenly saints are only collecting these same prayers while they themselves are incapable of intecessory prayer?
Why would they be capable of collecting prayer while incapable of praying?
This makes absolutely no sense to me!

Certainly the heavenly saints are worshipping God and praising God - but exactly where does it specify that is ALL they are doing?
You call them “servants” What if God wished for them to serve him through prayer?
Is it really that unthinkable that they would be aware of earthly affairs - or at the very least remember those they had left behind?
What exactly is stopping them from approching the Lord and saying…“Dear Father could you please give my children strength to go on without me?” or “Dear Jesus - could you please give my cousin a little more time on earth - he just might discover You if given more time?”

Do protestant really restrain themselves from talking to their dead loved ones? Do they really have trouble saying to their dead parents “I’m struggling here - please put in a good word for me with the Big Guy”?

It is my understanding that we are all family - and family members help each other.
I see absolutely no proof that souls in heaven are completely detached from us, and I know from experience that when I personally ask my daughter to pray for me - or a saint - I have received confirmation many times.

Again, I’m left wondering…if protestant get so easily agitated by this catholic practice because they claim to go “straight to Jesus” - then why do they seek prayers from anyone else? Why do they pray for others?
This appears inconsistent to me.
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You are right it doesn’t make sense! They talk about praying to the dead,but if they are members of the Body of Christ,then they are alive in Him!And if they persist in saying they are dead, are they denying the ressurection?I know the Saints pray for us, and I am thankful for it.God Bless
 
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