Protestant/Catholic stance on Mary

  • Thread starter Thread starter becka01101
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

becka01101

Guest
**I put this in the Non-Catholic Religions forum, because this has to do with the Protestant church- I can repost it somewhere else if this is not the appropriate forum.

I was raised as an Evangelical- my parents left their churches (Catholic and Methodist) and went to an Evangelical church. I was raised to believe that the Catholic church had good intentions, but was just misguided. Someone made a comment one day that led to a study of the differences between the Protestant and Catholic churches. For me, it has removed a lot of the misconceptions that I’ve had about the Catholic church, and I am continuing with my studying.

There are a lot of misconceptions between the Catholic and Protestant churches (we all know there are a lot of them) but one of the biggest ones is about Mary. The first thing you will hear from a Protestant about the Catholic church is “Oh, they worship Mary!” Now I don’t usually get into discussions about the misconceptions, because I’m suddenly opened up to a lot of harsh criticism (why would I even consider the Catholic church) as well as it putting me in the position of defending the Catholic church (something I’m not prepared or qualified to do). However, on occasion and with close friends that I know won’t condemn me, we’ve been able to discuss the differences between the two churches.

From what I’ve found in my studying, the Catholic church teaches that Mary is to be respected for who she is, the woman that God chose to bear and raise his Son. She is an intercessor for us, and should be revered.

The problem that many Protestants have with Mary is that it doesn’t seem like that’s where it ends. I was recently reading a profile about someone’s faith on a Catholic site, it is as follows (in its entirety):

“I’m glad I was raised as a Catholic because we get to honor the most beautiful being ever created, our Mother Mary. She is truly amazing! I try my best to honor her by praying the rosary every night and fast every Friday for the peace of the world. Having said that, I am a conservative Catholic and I stand up for what I believe.”

This is a perfect example of what freaks Protestants out. I realize that this is one profile and is not an end-all example, but it seemed to encompass exactly what Protestants fear. They (we) worry about putting Mary on too high of a pedestal, and that the focus isn’t completely on Jesus anymore, that Mary and the saints are distracting from the real focus.

As I mentioned before, I will defend the Catholic church in the bigger misconceptions that Protestants have, but I’m having trouble with this one. I know the crux of what the Church teaches (far from extensive), but I have to admit that when I talk to some Catholics and read things such as what is above, I’m inclined to think that maybe what the Catholic church teaches and what many Catholics do are two completely different things. It wouldn’t be the first time something like that has happened within a church (just look at the issue of birth control) but its something that raises a lot of red flags for Protestants.

I’m not sure what I’m asking for here- just some thoughts on the issue?

If you’re going to explain to me my stupidity in being unable to completely wrap my mind around this, please don’t. This is as hard for Protestants to understand, as it is for Catholics to understand why we don’t. I’m looking for opinions on this issue, preferably opinions given in a kind and loving manner.

Thank you!
Becka
 
becka01101 said:
**I put this in the Non-Catholic Religions forum, because this has to do with the Protestant church- I can repost it somewhere else if this is not the appropriate forum.

I was raised as an Evangelical- my parents left their churches (Catholic and Methodist) and went to an Evangelical church. I was raised to believe that the Catholic church had good intentions, but was just misguided. Someone made a comment one day that led to a study of the differences between the Protestant and Catholic churches. For me, it has removed a lot of the misconceptions that I’ve had about the Catholic church, and I am continuing with my studying.

There are a lot of misconceptions between the Catholic and Protestant churches (we all know there are a lot of them) but one of the biggest ones is about Mary. The first thing you will hear from a Protestant about the Catholic church is “Oh, they worship Mary!” Now I don’t usually get into discussions about the misconceptions, because I’m suddenly opened up to a lot of harsh criticism (why would I even consider the Catholic church) as well as it putting me in the position of defending the Catholic church (something I’m not prepared or qualified to do). However, on occasion and with close friends that I know won’t condemn me, we’ve been able to discuss the differences between the two churches.

From what I’ve found in my studying, the Catholic church teaches that Mary is to be respected for who she is, the woman that God chose to bear and raise his Son. She is an intercessor for us, and should be revered.

The problem that many Protestants have with Mary is that it doesn’t seem like that’s where it ends. I was recently reading a profile about someone’s faith on a Catholic site, it is as follows (in its entirety):

“I’m glad I was raised as a Catholic because we get to honor the most beautiful being ever created, our Mother Mary. She is truly amazing! I try my best to honor her by praying the rosary every night and fast every Friday for the peace of the world. Having said that, I am a conservative Catholic and I stand up for what I believe.”

This is a perfect example of what freaks Protestants out. I realize that this is one profile and is not an end-all example, but it seemed to encompass exactly what Protestants fear. They (we) worry about putting Mary on too high of a pedestal, and that the focus isn’t completely on Jesus anymore, that Mary and the saints are distracting from the real focus.

As I mentioned before, I will defend the Catholic church in the bigger misconceptions that Protestants have, but I’m having trouble with this one. I know the crux of what the Church teaches (far from extensive), but I have to admit that when I talk to some Catholics and read things such as what is above, I’m inclined to think that maybe what the Catholic church teaches and what many Catholics do are two completely different things. It wouldn’t be the first time something like that has happened within a church (just look at the issue of birth control) but its something that raises a lot of red flags for Protestants.

I’m not sure what I’m asking for here- just some thoughts on the issue?

If you’re going to explain to me my stupidity in being unable to completely wrap my mind around this, please don’t. This is as hard for Protestants to understand, as it is for Catholics to understand why we don’t. I’m looking for opinions on this issue, preferably opinions given in a kind and loving manner.

Thank you!
Becka
Click to expand...
There’s nothing wrong with what she said. We (Catholics) believe that Mary
is the crown of God’s creation, so to speak. She is the greatest creature ever created. “Created” is the keyword there, because Jesus is uncreated, so we’re not saying she is greater than Jesus.

I think it’s funny that many Protestant believe we honor Mary too much… because it’s my opinion that Catholics today do not honor our Blessed Mother enough. I think we’ve become afraid to give her the veneration that She deserves, because we get criticism for it so much from people who don’t understand.

But there’s nothing wrong with what that girl said. I think it’s great to see a Catholic which such a true, deep love for our Blessed Mother.

Take care,
Reed
 
Reedolo said:
There’s nothing wrong with what she said. We (Catholics) believe that Mary
is the crown of God’s creation, so to speak. She is the greatest creature ever created. “Created” is the keyword there, because Jesus is uncreated, so we’re not saying she is greater than Jesus.

I think it’s funny that many Protestant believe we honor Mary too much… because it’s my opinion that Catholics today do not honor our Blessed Mother enough. I think we’ve become afraid to give her the veneration that She deserves, because we get criticism for it so much from people who don’t understand.

But there’s nothing wrong with what that girl said. I think it’s great to see a Catholic which such a true, deep love for our Blessed Mother.

Take care,
Reed
Click to expand...
The point was that in talking about her faith, there was no mention of Jesus, her Savior. Thats was startling to me.
 
She wasn’t necessarily talking about ALL of her faith though. She says she’s glad at being raised catholic because she gets to honor Mary. I would assume that she was comparing Protestantism to Catholicism and saying she’s glad she’s Catholic because Catholics get to honor Mary, wheras protestants don’t. She’s pointing out a difference. We both get to love and adore Jesus. If she was mentioning that she may have said “I’m glad to be a Christian” instead of Catholic because both Protestants and Catholics are Christian, and both love and adore Jesus, but she singles out Catholicism because she’s mentioning a singularly Catholic tradition. If she was Lutheran, she may have said “I’m glad I’m Lutheran because I get to follow Luther, who was a man singled out by God to reform and correct the Church”. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t also love Jesus. (I don’t know if that’s how Lutheran’s view Luther, I’m just trying to make a possible comparisson),

On another note, I love it when you post because your elephant makes me literally crack up every time. Thank you for the elephant.
 
becka01101 said:
The point was that in talking about her faith, there was no mention of Jesus, her Savior. Thats was startling to me.
Click to expand...
Oh, ok, i see where you’re coming from now!

I still don’t see a problem though. I mean I could say that I love being Catholic because of Apostolic Succession, and I think it’s the coolest thing ever. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t worship Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior! If someone says they love being Catholic because they get to have devotion to Mary, that doesn’t indicate in any way that they are neglecting Jesus. It actually makes a lot of sense to say that, because compared with other Christians, Catholics are the only ones who have an active devotion to Mary.

peace
 
Rawb said:
She wasn’t necessarily talking about ALL of her faith though. She says she’s glad at being raised catholic because she gets to honor Mary. I would assume that she was comparing Protestantism to Catholicism and saying she’s glad she’s Catholic because Catholics get to honor Mary, wheras protestants don’t. She’s pointing out a difference. We both get to love and adore Jesus. If she was mentioning that she may have said “I’m glad to be a Christian” instead of Catholic because both Protestants and Catholics are Christian, and both love and adore Jesus, but she singles out Catholicism because she’s mentioning a singularly Catholic tradition. If she was Lutheran, she may have said “I’m glad I’m Lutheran because I get to follow Luther, who was a man singled out by God to reform and correct the Church”. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t also love Jesus. (I don’t know if that’s how Lutheran’s view Luther, I’m just trying to make a possible comparisson),
Click to expand...
I guess I should have clarified, this was written in a Catholic forum.

But the profile entry isn’t even the issue, just a picture of what I’m talking about. To the Protestants, even if other issues such as the intercession of saints and the Eucharist (both of which are things I can understand) are things we can reconcile, anything seeming like it pulls the focus away from Jesus is immediately suspect. Protestants understand that too little time is spent in prayer and study of Jesus and His teachings, so it seems to us like Mary is just another distraction.
On another note, I love it when you post because your elephant makes me literally crack up every time. Thank you for the elephant.
Click to expand...
Thanks- he’s a cutie, he makes me laugh too. 🙂
 
Reedolo said:
It actually makes a lot of sense to say that, because compared with other Christians, Catholics are the only ones who have an active devotion to Mary
Click to expand...
That makes sense to me, especially in the profile piece I quoted.

But what about everything else? It seems like people are far more vocal and demonstrative of their honoring Mary than they are of Jesus. Yes I know thats a generalization, but many of our good family friends are Catholic, this is not just a one-time or one-family observation. I visited a friend’s house, and in the kitchen alone were three statues and four pictures of Mary, nothing of Jesus. I know that that is where Protestants base much of what they think of the Catholic church, and I’m not sure what to even think about it.
 
becka01101 said:
I guess I should have clarified, this was written in a Catholic forum.

But the profile entry isn’t even the issue, just a picture of what I’m talking about. To the Protestants, even if other issues such as the intercession of saints and the Eucharist (both of which are things I can understand) are things we can reconcile, anything seeming like it pulls the focus away from Jesus is immediately suspect. Protestants understand that too little time is spent in prayer and study of Jesus and His teachings, so it seems to us like Mary is just another distraction.
Click to expand...
I used to be a Protestant and I converted to Catholicism, and the Eucharist is what did it for me. After I knew the Eucharist was real, everything else came. Mary was one of the hardest things for me, too, because I was afraid it might take my focus away from Christ, and I was hesitant to pray to Mary or any Saint really.

But once I prayed to Mary, I realized that it doesn’t take the focus away from Jesus at all, any more than it would take focus away from Jesus if i talked to my earthly mother, or someone i look up to on earth. I feel like I’m closer to Jesus now than I ever was.

Maybe it’s something that really just doesn’t make sense until it actually becomes a part of your spiritual life. It probably looks a lot different to people on the “outside” looking in, because they’ve never experienced it, it’s strange to them, and they don’t understand it.

take care
 
As ST Therese of Lisuex, the little flower said,
“do not be afraid of loving the virgin Mary too much as you can never love her too much and Jesus will be very happy because the Virgin Mary is his mother”
God Bless
 
becka01101 said:
That makes sense to me, especially in the profile piece I quoted.

But what about everything else? It seems like people are far more vocal and demonstrative of their honoring Mary than they are of Jesus. Yes I know thats a generalization, but many of our good family friends are Catholic, this is not just a one-time or one-family observation. I visited a friend’s house, and in the kitchen alone were three statues and four pictures of Mary, nothing of Jesus. I know that that is where Protestants base much of what they think of the Catholic church, and I’m not sure what to even think about it.
Click to expand...
If you come to my house, you’ll see a lot of pictures of my grandparents, my great grandmother, my uncles, my little cousins, and some of our friends. And only 2 or 3 icons of Jesus on plates.

Would you assume that we love our family and friends more than Jesus?
 
Reedolo said:
Maybe it’s something that really just doesn’t make sense until it actually becomes a part of your spiritual life. It probably looks a lot different to people on the “outside” looking in, because they’ve never experienced it, it’s strange to them, and they don’t understand it.
Click to expand...
Well put.
 
Reedolo said:
If you come to my house, you’ll see a lot of pictures of my grandparents, my great grandmother, my uncles, my little cousins, and some of our friends. And only 2 or 3 icons of Jesus on plates.

Would you assume that we love our family and friends more than Jesus?
Click to expand...
No- but if you had five or six pictures of your sister and only one of your brother, I would assume that you probably had a closer relationship with your sister.
 
becka01101 said:
No- but if you had five or six pictures of your sister and only one of your brother, I would assume that you probably had a closer relationship with your sister.
Click to expand...
Really? What if I didn’t have any pictures of Jesus, either, or only one image of Jesus. Would you assume I had a closer relationship with my sister than with Jesus?

For what it’s worth, I would never make any kind of assumption like that. My grandmother has more pictures of my little cousins than she does of me… but should I assume that she loves them more than me? No, of course not.
 
becka01101 said:
Becka,
God bless you, and welcome to this forum! You have asked a sincere question. I hope that we can supply you with a worthy answer.

Tons could be written in reply. I’ll try to keep it short, and keep it Biblical.

First, Mary herself prophesied that “all generations will call me blessed” (Lk 1:48). So, Catholics are fulfilling that prophesy by honoring her.

But, as you ask, do we go too far? Perhaps some individuals do, but what does the Church teach? The overarching principle is summed up in a phrase by St. Louis de Montfort: “To Jesus through Mary.” Just as Mary, by her “yes” to God (Lk 1:38) allowed Jesus to come to the world, so now by her intercession in heaven she prays that we can come closer to Jesus. Of course, most Protestants don’t believe that people in heaven can intercede for us, but isn’t that what the elders are doing in Rev 5:8?

-JohnPaul
Click to expand...
 
What you’re doing, becka, is confusing the amount of time we spend talking about Mary with the level of respect and veneration we give her.

I can spend ages talking on the phone with my mother or my sisters, whereas my father is the sort who tends to spend as little time as possible on the phone and even then only for emergencies and important messages. This doesn’t mean that I love my father less than my mother.

Same with my work clients - some of my work with some is more difficult or complex, and for that reason alone I spend more time with them and on them than others. Has nothing to do with how much I respect, admire or even like each client.

From another perspective, the Mass and the Eucharist are the ONLY things that are ABSOLUTELY COMPULSORY for every Catholic. Every single week we are required, short of illness or absolutely necessary work committments, to attend Mass. There is no sort of similar compulsion with any Marian devotion we may choose.

The prayers and hymns at Mass, if you’ve never been, are completely Christ-centred, Mary is only even mentioned once or twice, literally. The vast majority who go to Mass also RECEIVE Jesus PHYSICALLY and LITERALLY, as we believe, into ourselves in communion.

No amount of prayers or other signs of respect or veneration to Mary can possibly compare to this most intimate and direct connection that we make most every Sunday, to Christ. Talk is cheap, as the saying goes.

Remember, early Christian martyrs died defending the Eucharist and died for their right to hold Mass. Read the story of St Tarcisius if you don’t believe it. None have ever been martyred for defending any image of Mary or any right to pray to her. That alone should show you that there’s no comparison between the two.
 
Becka-

Welcome!

I am a new convert to Catholicism from Evangelicalism, and the Mary “problem” was the last to be resolved until I understood the truth of the Communion of Saints. Once you “get” this, Mary is no longer a problem at all.

Mary is not dead. Catholics are not venerating (honoring) a dead person. Mary is as alive and well as you and I are. And she is not just floating around out there somewhere. Neither are any of our departed Christian forebearers. They are alive and well and active. They are as much an active part of the Body of Christ as we are, this activity never ceased, even with the death of their natural bodies. As a matter of fact, they are more truly active than we are, because they know more perfectly what they are to do. They see the face of God and are able to know how to do what they were created for. And this includes interceding to God on behalf of their brothers and sisters and the world. Revelation gave us a glimpse into this when it decribes the saints gathered around the throne and the bowls on the alter filled with the prayers of the saints.

Mary is unique among all creatures, she is the most blessed among all women, of all time, the Bible says so. She was given a special place in human history and will always be revered as the Mother of our King, Christ Jesus. He will always honor His mother, as is commanded by Scripture, and we as His adopted brothers and sisters, will always honor “our” mother, also by adoption. The Protestants would have us believe that we cease to be who we are when we leave this world. We do not. We become even more of who we are when we see God.

To say that to love someone, somehow diminishes our love for Christ, is actually, unChristian. We are called to love each other. If I say I love you, or I love my family, or I love my neighbor, and love in such a way as to do whatever I should be doing to show that love in a tangible way, as we are commanded in Scripture, does this devotion to those I love in any way diminish my love for Christ? No! It proves my love for Christ, that I love those around me as He does! And I am to love His Body to that same degree, and this includes all the saints/Saints who have ever been and still are a part of this same Body as I am. We are all connected, through Christ our Head. And this includes Mary, that most blessed woman of God, the simplest handmaiden who found favor and was full of grace even before she was told her place in His Body.

All generations shall called her “blessed”. That’s what the Bible prophesied 2000 years ago. Who’s fulfilling this prophecy today? The Catholics (and the Orthodox, don’t want to forget these brothers and sisters). Is this condemned by the Bible? No, it absolutely wasn’t and isn’t.

To dishonor Mary by speaking ill of her and her position is to dishonor Christ and His infinite love for her. I’m sure there’s not much that hurts him more than that some of his brothers and sisters dishonor His mother and each other for her sake, as much as they do. I am ashamed of my participation in this and feel undeservedly blessed to have been give the grace to see it all now.

I hope you don’t take offense in this, I was trying not to have a harsh tone in what I have written, it doesn’t always come off that way. :rolleyes: I was where you are, and am still dealing with those who don’t understand. It isn’t easy, but it’s better to know the truth in peace and be alone than to be in darkness with a lot of company!

God Bless you on your journey!:angel1:
 
LilyM said:
From another perspective, the Mass and the Eucharist are the ONLY things that are ABSOLUTELY COMPULSORY for every Catholic. Every single week we are required, short of illness or absolutely necessary work committments, to attend Mass. There is no sort of similar compulsion with any Marian devotion we may choose.
Click to expand...
So hypothetically, I could give Mary the same level of respect I do now and still be Catholic?
 
Well i guess we protestant prefer a church that 100% emphasize on Jesus Christ our Lord, which is a little different from Catholic which place more emphasis on Mary…
 
happygal said:
Well i guess we protestant prefer a church that 100% emphasize on Jesus Christ our Lord, which is a little different from Catholic which place more emphasis on Mary…
Click to expand...
Hmm… have you ever been to a Catholic church? Obviously not. Or you’d know that we don’t place more emphasis on Mary. :cool:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top