Protestant Christians: Any problem with sola scriptura?

[alwayswill]

THEN dear friend TRASH you’re Bible It was AUTHORED BY HUMANS. Amen

…
Patrick

I don’t believe that Scripture was AUTHORED BY HUMANS
and I am sure the Catholic Church does not teach that

 

[alwayswill]

OK:shrug:

So these are TRUE?

Mark 9:46
And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out. It is better for thee with one eye to enter into the kingdom of God, than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire

Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell.

And what about Parables?

Help us out here my friend,

Patrick

yes: the Scripture is 100% true

That does not mean 100% literal
Context determines meaning

 

[alwayswill]

**GREAT,

Then please share YOUR understanding of the Following:**

Mt. 16: 18-19
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. ** And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind** upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be
loosed also in heaven.

Jn.17: 17-20
[17]** Sanctify them in truth** {the Apostles}.Thy word is truth. [18]** As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world**. [19] And for them do I sanctify myself,** that they also may be sanctified in truth.** [20] And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me;

Mt 28:19-20
Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold** I am with you all days,** even to the consummation of the world

Jn.20: 20-23.
[21] He** {Jesus} said therefore to them {the Apostles} again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.**

Jn 6: 47-57
[47] Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life. [48] I am the bread of life. [49] Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead. [50] This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die.

[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven. [52] If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. [53] The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? [54] Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. [55] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. [56] For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. [57] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

God Bless you my friend,

Patrick

My understating of any writing breathed out by God does not determines its authority or its inerrancy.

 

[alwayswill]

Nor CAN they be unless they are teaching in full-agreement with the Catholic Church. Amen

Patrick

it seems you are confusing being correct with being infallible.

Is it the teaching of the Catholic Church that Catholic Priests, who are in full-agreement with the Catholic Church, are infallible?

I don’t think so

 

[alwayswill]

No, Starwarsfan2, that is not the case. The Scriptures are considered inspired and inerrant because they are God Breathed (theopneustos).

Fallibily is a characteristic of a person, not a text, however Holy. To be in fallible requires a will (ability to choose) which the Scriptures do not have. One also must be held accountable for ones acts, or have the ability to be responsible for what one says and does. Only in such a case can a person be fallible, or capable of falling. Intellect and will are not qualities of the Holy Writings.

This is the greatest flaw of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. People believe they are “going by what the scriptures say” when in fact, they are going by what they believe they say, or what they interpret them to mean. It is the person who decides and acts, not the Holy Writings.

I want to ask you this a plainly as I can;

Is it possible that a writing breathed of God Himself to be fallible?

 

[PJM]

I don’t believe that Scripture was AUTHORED BY HUMANS
and I am sure the Catholic Church does not teach that

So help US put here my friend

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul were NOT humans?

Or are you saying they DID NOT author the NT books attributed to THEM. {Let;s not get off topic here… I’m ONLY making A single point {for now}.

OR are you claiming that GOD DICTATED the bible to them

AND the RCC does TEACH that the various AUTHORS of the Bible DID in FACT using there OWN words; AUTHOR the Bible.

Timothy 3:16-17
[16] **All scripture, inspired of God/COLOR], is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, [17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

God Bless you,

Patrick**

 

[PJM]

yes: the Scripture is 100% true

That does not mean 100% literal
Context determines meaning

Ahhhhh

So THAT is why P’s are able to deny actula truths; simply by claiming that THEY
Mt 16:15-19
Jn 17:17-20
Jn 6:47-57
Jn 20:19-23
Mt 28:19-20 are “not literal”

That then explains why there are such a large number of non-Catholic sets of Faith beliefs & churches.

Very enlightening, thank you

God Bless,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

In this forum; it is my intention to accurately present the views of Sola Scriptura practicing Protestants.
We believe Scripture is infallible and inerrant because of what Scripture is (its the characteristics or attributes)
Not because of what is Scripture. (which books are Scripture)

I’m a bit slow my friend; could you PLEASE explain that though further?

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

My understating of any writing breathed out by God does not determines its authority or its inerrancy.

My Friend

Your statement contracts EVERYTHING Christianity beliefs about the Bible. PLEASE explain yourself

 

[PJM]

it seems you are confusing being correct with being infallible.

Is it the teaching of the Catholic Church that Catholic Priests, who are in full-agreement with the Catholic Church, are infallible?

I don’t think so

NO

At least NOT alway’s:thumbsup: ONLY when what they share has been INFALLIBLY declared.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[alwayswill]

So help US put here my friend

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul were NOT humans?

Or are you saying they DID NOT author the NT books attributed to THEM. {Let;s not get off topic here… I’m ONLY making A single point {for now}.

OR are you claiming that GOD DICTATED the bible to them

AND the RCC does TEACH that the various AUTHORS of the Bible DID in FACT using there OWN words; AUTHOR the Bible.

Timothy 3:16-17
[16] All scripture, inspired of God/COLOR], is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, [17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

God Bless you,

Patrick

God is the ultimate author of Scripture

I agree with this: don’t you?
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm

re: 2 Timothy 3:16

A Mozart symphony is inspired
A Beatles melody is inspired

pasa graphē theopneustos
Theo - of God
pneustros - breathed

That is why I use God breathed compared to God insprired

It is a stronger word and more accurate to the text

 

[PJM]

I want to ask you this a plainly as I can;

Is it possible that a writing breathed of God Himself to be fallible?

IF:shrug: you’re asking can God teach ANYTHING in error. NO He cannot

 

[guanophore]

Previous Catholic posters have confirmed Scripture is Scripture the moment it was written; whether Genesis, Isaiah, or the Letter to the Romans, even before another human eye has seen the God breathed writing; it is in fact Scripture.

And because it is Scripture (a God breathed writing) it is infallible.

Is it correct to say the moment Scripture is written (prior to any declaration form the Church) it is infallible (incapable of error) ?

The author who produced the Scripture is infallible. God being the primary author, of course, then preventing fallibility in those who penned it.

Yes, Scripture in inerrant and inspired from the time it was written. What the Church needed to discern, among all the other writings floating about in the first 300 years, was which books accurately reflected the Word of God that had been committed to the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth.

 

[alwayswill]

IF:shrug: you’re asking can God teach ANYTHING in error. NO He cannot

I am not going to push the point
but that is not what I asked:

Just so you know what I proclaim.

Is it possible that a writing breathed of God Himself to be fallible?
NO ! ** It is absolutely 100 % impossible** for any writing breathed of God Himself to be fallible

 

[guanophore]

In this forum; it is my intention to accurately present the views of Sola Scriptura practicing Protestants.
We believe Scripture is infallible and inerrant because of what Scripture is (its the characteristics or attributes)
Not because of what is Scripture. (which books are Scripture)

Can you produce any documentation that Sola Scriptura Protestants believe scripture is infallible?

 

[alwayswill]

Can you produce any documentation that Sola Scriptura Protestants believe scripture is infallible?

yes:

This is a widely accepted statement on the “protestant” view of infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture.

Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy with Exposition
bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html

Article XI.
WE AFFIRM that Scripture, having been given by divine inspiration, is infallible, so that, far from misleading us, it is true and reliable in all the matters it addresses.

WE DENY that it is possible for the Bible to be at the same time infallible and errant in its assertions.** Infallibility** and inerrancy may be distinguished, but not separated.

Article XII.
WE AFFIRM that Scripture in its entirety is inerrant, being free from all falsehood, fraud, or deceit.

WE DENY that Biblical** infallibility** and inerrancy are limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes, exclusive of assertions in the fields of history and science. We further deny that scientific hypotheses about earth history may properly be used to overturn the teaching of Scripture on creation and the flood.

continuing…
Infallibility, Inerrancy, Interpretation

Holy Scripture, as the inspired Word of God witnessing authoritatively to Jesus Christ, may properly be called **infallible **and inerrant. These negative terms have a special value, for they explicitly safeguard crucial positive truths.

lnfallible signifies the quality of neither misleading nor being misled and so safeguards in categorical terms the truth that Holy Scripture is a sure, safe, and reliable rule and guide in all matters.

Similarly, inerrant signifies the quality of being free from all falsehood or mistake and so safeguards the truth that Holy Scripture is entirely true and trustworthy in all its assertions.

We affirm that canonical Scripture should always be interpreted on the basis that it is infallible and inerrant. However, in determining what the God-taught writer is asserting in each passage, we must pay the most careful attention to its claims and character as a human production. In inspiration, God utilized the culture and conventions of His penman’s milieu, a milieu that God controls in His sovereign providence; it is misinterpretation to imagine otherwise.

 

[JonNC]

yes to all. And the Church Infallibly declared which books are Sacred Scripture and which are not. And the Church formulated and defined the doctrine of Inerrancy, since it is not from Scripture alone.

Hi Michael,
Is 3 Maccabees part of Sacred Scripture? I ask because there are Bishops in the Church which hold it and other to be part of the canon of scripture.

Jon

 

[guanophore]

I don’t believe that Scripture was AUTHORED BY HUMANS
and I am sure the Catholic Church does not teach that

…20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. 2 Pet. 1:21

The CC teaches that men, inspired by the HS, spoke from God.

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69

"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70

106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. “To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more.” (Dei Verbum)

 

[alwayswill]

…20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. 2 Pet. 1:21

The CC teaches that men, inspired by the HS, spoke from God.

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69

"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70

106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. “To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more.” (Dei Verbum)

so you agree that God is the author of Scripture?
Why then I say it I am challenged?

 

[rcwitness]

In this forum; it is my intention to accurately present the views of Sola Scriptura practicing Protestants.

Thats good And there are other members who do also, who are great to have here!

We believe Scripture is infallible and inerrant because of what Scripture is (its the characteristics or attributes)
Not because of what is Scripture. (which books are Scripture)

Right. Don’t think this is a departure from the Catholic faith. I have been sharing there is an importance of Church Infallibility to declare which writings are God-breathed and which ones were not. It doesn’t mean the Church authority is a source of the Revelation and inerrancy of Scripture. It means She has the gift to Confirm for the faithfull (Infallibly) what constitutes the Canon of Scripture. This is a significant element of being able to say, “This IS the Written Word of God”. And with this same authority, we can say, “Infant Baptism IS Apostolic”, and “the Eucharist IS the Word”.