Protestant Christians: Are you afraid of Mary?

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jabelltulsa said:
OK. I understand. There are many posts and articles here on CA that I hope you read in regards to prayer - what it is, and what Christ’s Church teaches about it. I’m glad you are here, BrewMax. God Bless you!👍

One more question, though: can we agree that Mary did more for us than any other human being (with the exception of Christ Himself, of course) by willfully participating in Christ’s Incarnation?
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I suppose but what would be the point? St. Augustine said, "He Christ alone being made a man but remaining God never had any sin nor did he take on flesh of sin though he took flesh of the sin of his mother. St. Augustine of Hippo
 
BrewMax said:
I suppose but what would be the point?
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The point is this: If we honor anyone in this world, we should show her honor first. That is what the Church teaches about her: honor Mary. Honoring Mary does not take away from worshiping Christ - this is my point. If we are worried about paying too much honor to her, then we should likewise reduce the honor we give to other figures in this world. We shouldn’t be afraid to honor mary. Sacred Scripture supports honoring Mary, and Sacred Scripture says that she makes God more close to us.

I cannot answer, at this time, your quote of St. Augustine. I will look into this. I can just say that this is not an infallible teaching of the Chruch. Not everything that the Early Fathers say is Doctrine.
 
jabelltulsa said:
The point is this: If we honor anyone in this world, we should show her honor first. That is what the Church teaches about her: honor Mary. Honoring Mary does not take away from worshiping Christ - this is my point. If we are worried about paying too much honor to her, then we should likewise reduce the honor we give to other figures in this world. We shouldn’t be afraid to honor mary. Sacred Scripture supports honoring Mary, and Sacred Scripture says that she makes God more close to us.

I cannot answer, at this time, your quote of St. Augustine. I will look into this. I can just say that this is not an infallible teaching of the Chruch. Not everything that the Early Fathers say is Doctrine.
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and why not?? what should we believe then?
 
No, not afraid.
I have a picture of her on my wall.

She’s not mentioned a lot except at Christmas, and in the creed.

But that doesn’t mean we’re afraid of her.
 
BrewMax said:
and why not?? what should we believe then?
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In regards to Mary? Mary is the virgin spoken of in the prophesies, and the Mother of Christ.

In regards to this thread, we should not fear showing her honor and respect, but rather we should delight in respecting and honoring Christ’s mother.

What do you believe?
 
BrewMax said:
I guess I can’t agree with that. Jesus never taught us to pray to Mary in the Bible.
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Jesus did gave us his mother at the cross. He gave his mother to an unnamed disciple, whom tradition regard to be John. Since Christians are disciple of Christ, we too must accept her as our mother. Remember, Jesus Christ is our brother made possible by our baptism. Mary is our spiritual mother. The love I hold for her is not greater than God.

I am merely obeying the commandment. “Love God with all your heart, mind, etc. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Jesus did gave us his mother at the cross. He gave his mother to an unnamed disciple, whom tradition regard to be John. Since Christians are disciple of Christ, we too must accept her as our mother. Remember, Jesus Christ is our brother made possible by our baptism. Mary is our spiritual mother. The love I hold for her is not greater than God.

I am merely obeying the commandment. “Love God with all your heart, mind, etc. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”
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I beg to disagree. Scripture never told us that Mary is our mother. Not by John, not by anyone. Love your neighbor as yourself means everyone equally. It doesn’t make the case for elevating Mary to a diety. You must remember my friend that Mary needed that same sacrifice as we did. Scripture says that ALL have fallen short of God’s grace. Doesn’t take much more than your eyes and a small amount of thinking to get that does it? I’m not trying to be wiseguy here believe me. I’m just trying to make a point. Sorry to disagree.
 
BrewMax said:
I beg to disagree. Scripture never told us that Mary is our mother. Not by John, not by anyone. Love your neighbor as yourself means everyone equally. It doesn’t make the case for elevating Mary to a diety. You must remember my friend that Mary needed that same sacrifice as we did. Scripture says that ALL have fallen short of God’s grace. Doesn’t take much more than your eyes and a small amount of thinking to get that does it? I’m not trying to be wiseguy here believe me. I’m just trying to make a point. Sorry to disagree.
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You continue to take St. Paul’s statement too broadly. He is emphasizing that both Jews and Gentiles are capable of sin, not that no one has ever existed without sin.
 
Tim_Kirchoff said:
You continue to take St. Paul’s statement too broadly. He is emphasizing that both Jews and Gentiles are capable of sin, not that no one has ever existed without sin.
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I understand, but Paul still made the statement and i can’t help but to believe from the many other verses of Scripture that nobody including Mary was ever sinless therefore we ALL are in need of God’s grace. Didn’t Mary herself say that her heart rejoices in God her Savior??
 
BrewMax said:
I understand, but Paul still made the statement and i can’t help but to believe from the many other verses of Scripture that nobody including Mary was ever sinless therefore we ALL are in need of God’s grace. Didn’t Mary herself say that her heart rejoices in God her Savior??
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Weren’t Adam and Eve free from sin before the Fall? Do newborn babies sin? Are you also saying that Jesus wasn’t “somebody”?
 
Tim_Kirchoff said:
Weren’t Adam and Eve free from sin before the Fall? Do newborn babies sin? Are you also saying that Jesus wasn’t “somebody”?
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Jesus was our Savior. Mary said herself that she rejoiced in God her Savior. That proves to me that she needed Jesus’ sacrifice just as much as we need it. Babies don’t willfully sin but they are born with original sin right? Adam and Eve weren’t born with original sin of course but they certainly did sin.
 
BrewMax said:
Jesus was our Savior. Mary said herself that she rejoiced in God her Savior. That proves to me that she needed Jesus’ sacrifice just as much as we need it. Babies don’t willfully sin but they are born with original sin right? Adam and Eve weren’t born with original sin of course but they certainly did sin.
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Yes, Mary needed Jesus’ sacrifice to be saved, but she did not need it to the same extent we do.
 
Tim_Kirchoff said:
Once again, Genesis 3:15

newadvent.org/bible/gen003.htm

God is addressing the serpent, saying that there will be emnity between Satan and his “seed” (sin) and the woman (ultimately referring to Mary) and her seed (Jesus).
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Isn’t He saying that the woman is Eve? I mean, though this entire verse, the woman is Eve. What indication is there that the woman He is referencing here has changed from Eve to Mary? Is this Catholic teaching? I’ve always assumed the woman in Genesis 3 was Eve. :confused:
 
boppaid said:
Isn’t He saying that the woman is Eve? I mean, though this entire verse, the woman is Eve. What indication is there that the woman He is referencing here has changed from Eve to Mary? Is this Catholic teaching? I’ve always assumed the woman in Genesis 3 was Eve. :confused:
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It refers to both. It’s yet antoher exaample of froeshadowing- subtle little hints in the OT that come to fulfilment in the NT, especially the Gospels.
 
I agree:thumbsup:

Anyway, I have said this before, maybe the lack of teaching is a knee jerk reaction to wanting to seperate themselves from the CC. Just an opinion. I really dont know.
When my minister speaks of Mary he says what a wonderful witness to Christ she was(are those the right words:confused: ). Because we preach straight from the bible, it is difficult to have a sermon totally about Mary without branching off into other aspects surrounding her life. There really isnt a whole lot about Mary in the bible.🤷 So, to specifically to preach about her would be a short topic.🤷

All of this is just me thinking off the top of my head.🤷
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👍 Furthermore:​

  • There is a great deal more to Catholicism than Mary
  • There is a great deal more to all forms of Christianity than Mary
  • Mary is not the main character in the Bible - Jesus Christ is
  • So when Protestants preach about Christ, they are emphasising the one Bible Character Who is the reason for all the others - Mary included
  • It is at least conceivable that, rather than Protestants giving her too little attention, Catholics give her too much: she does rather seem to swamp everything at times.
  • She has her place, but it is not the place that is Christ’s alone - there have been exaggerations about her before, & this is not good.
  • Not everything said to praise her has been orthodox, or theologically sound, or even wise. Statements that are problematic occur even in the writings of canonised Saints - that does not make them any less problematic: Saints are as able to mis-speak as anyone else.
    Things have about said about the Church’s teaching & practice in regard to her, & in regard to what the Church has - wisely, rightly, or not - allowed, that are very wide of the mark, for all sorts of reasons, good and bad. Not all criticisms of the Church on this score are justified - but some are; & it is not against any Catholic value, doctrinal, disciplinary, traditional, moral or “other” to say so. So when Protestants denounce the* cultus* of the BVM, they may well have very good & solid reasons for doing so, even when what they say is less than entirely fair or right. The accepting of something as wrong is a step towards correcting it.
IMHO, devotion to someone - any someone - is not something that one can argue people into. One can accept a devotion as good for oneself, & proclaim to
others that one has tasted and seen it to be good; but one can no more experience it by proxy, than one can swim by proxy - some things cannot be done at second-hand, but must be experienced directly for oneself or not at all. Devotion to a person, Saint or no, is a form of friendship - it is not the sort of thing one can have or do unless one is willing & able to have it; it seems to be a bit like a talent, that one has, or does not have. Nothing in creation that is external to the self can make it internal; argument least of all, perhaps. The other side of this is that those without it should respect the fact that some have it.
 
Tim_Kirchoff said:
It refers to both. It’s yet antoher exaample of froeshadowing- subtle little hints in the OT that come to fulfilment in the NT, especially the Gospels.
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I have been rereading these verses all day. Where does it indicate that the subject has switched from Eve to Mary?
 
boppaid said:
I have been rereading these verses all day. Where does it indicate that the subject has switched from Eve to Mary?
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The problem with Genesis 3:15 is that it reads completely different in the Catholic and Protestant bibles. Here are the quotes from one of each.

King James Version: “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

Douay-Rheims Bible: “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”

So unless you read this verse from a Catholic version it is a real stretch to see how it foreshadows Mary.
 
Zenas said:
The problem with Genesis 3:15 is that it reads completely different in the Catholic and Protestant bibles. Here are the quotes from one of each.

King James Version: “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

Douay-Rheims Bible: “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”

So unless you read this verse from a Catholic version it is a real stretch to see how it foreshadows Mary.
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I am looking at a Catholic Bible. (Isn’t New American Bible Catholic?) And it says,
Code: 
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.
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