Protestant claims baptism not necessary - help!

[JonNC]

Between you and I, it is you who regularly misrepresents Protestant beliefs.

This is objectively false. I never speak of “Protestant beliefs”.

 

[JonNC]

If I did not know that the Lutheran Church has publically apologized for the hateful ways they were involved in treating the Anabaptists in those times I would find it hard to believe in the validity of the Lutheran faith at all.

I would suggest that when presenting hateful material from the past it is a sin to allow anyone in the present to assume the Lutheran Church still holds this attitude.

I’m confused. What are you talking about.
If you are talking about the Confutation as quoted, the Confutation was the Catholic response to the Augsburg Confession.

My understanding is that both Catholics and Lutherans have expressed remorse about the way Anabaptists were treated by both traditions at that time.

 

[De_Maria]

This is objectively false. I never speak of “Protestant beliefs”.

Lol! Sneaky, sneaky. You don’t like to use the word, Protestant. But you frequently tell us what you think that people whom we recognize as Protestant, believe and do not believe. And very often, you misrepresent what the Protestants with whom I’ve had contact, tell me, that they believe.

 

[Wannano]

I too am confused. We all know you uphold the Catholic doctrine of infant baptism and baptismal regeneration. Why you would use an article condemning Anabaptists to convince demaria of what he already knows. It has nothing to do with Anabaptists. Somehow I am surprised, it seems out of character for you.

I know the Lutheran Church approached the Anabaptists with an apology but I am not aware of the same action from the Catholic Church. If you can provide me with info on that I would be grateful.

 

[Brian_K]

I would think the fact that Jesus Himself was baptized sets a strong precedent.

 

[JonNC]

Lol! Sneaky, sneaky. You don’t like to use the word, Protestant. But you frequently tell us what you think that people whom we recognize as Protestant, believe and do not believe.

No, I don’t. I will disagree, but I work very hard at not telling others what the believe.

And very often, you misrepresent what the Protestants with whom I’ve had contact, tell me, that they believe.

Again, a false accusation. Which communion’s teaching have I misrepresented? Please link a post.

 

[JonNC]

I too am confused. We all know you uphold the Catholic doctrine of infant baptism and baptismal regeneration. Why you would use an article condemning Anabaptists to convince demaria of what he already knows. It has nothing to do with Anabaptists. Somehow I am surprised, it seems out of character for you.

I simply posted the Confutation response. I’m not condoning their comments about Anabaptists. It is a historical document.

I know the Lutheran Church approached the Anabaptists with an apology but I am not aware of the same action from the Catholic Church. If you can provide me with info on that I would be grateful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...c2c-b1f1-880f6e10f120/?utm_term=.4885ec5ce264

 

[De_Maria]

No, I don’t. I will disagree, but I work very hard at not telling others what the believe.

So, you didn’t deny that some Protestants believe that Baptism is not necessary?

Again, a false accusation. Which communion’s teaching have I misrepresented? Please link a post.

I didn’t say that you misrepresented any communion’s teachings. I said you have misrepresented the beliefs of the Protestants with whom I’ve had contact.

Do you not understand the difference between “teachings” and “beliefs”?

 

[Wannano]

Thanks Jon!

 

[JonNC]

So, you didn’t deny that some Protestants believe that Baptism is not necessary?

Of course not. Why would I deny the fact that some communions/denominations even individual Christians do not believe baptism to be necessary? I think the number who think this way is not large, AFAIK. A large percentage is those who reject infant baptism in favor of believers baptism.

I didn’t say that you misrepresented any communion’s teachings. I said you have misrepresented the beliefs of the Protestants with whom I’ve had contact.

And this is false. I don’t know the people you’ve spoken with.

 

[HopkinsReb]

De_Maria:

So, you didn’t deny that some Protestants believe that Baptism is not necessary?

Of course not. Why would I deny the fact that some communions/denominations even individual Christians do not believe baptism to be necessary? I think the number who think this way is not large, AFAIK. A large percentage is those who reject infant baptism in favor of believers baptism.

I didn’t say that you misrepresented any communion’s teachings. I said you have misrepresented the beliefs of the Protestants with whom I’ve had contact.

And this is false. I don’t know the people you’ve spoken with.

Perhaps when you say “there is no Protestant position on X,” that is being read as “no Protestants have a position on X.”

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

De_Maria:

So, you didn’t deny that some Protestants believe that Baptism is not necessary?

Of course not. Why would I deny the fact that some communions/denominations even individual Christians do not believe baptism to be necessary? I think the number who think this way is not large, AFAIK. A large percentage is those who reject infant baptism in favor of believers baptism.

I didn’t say that you misrepresented any communion’s teachings. I said you have misrepresented the beliefs of the Protestants with whom I’ve had contact.

And this is false. I don’t know the people you’ve spoken with.

Perhaps when you say “there is no Protestant position on X,” that is being read as “no Protestants have a position on X.”

Perhaps. That is not what I’m saying, as I think you know. Maybe that clears it up, however.

 

[HopkinsReb]

Maybe that clears it up, however.

Not likely. I think the misunderstanding is willful. Still worth a try, though.

 

[Bigal]

Wow most do not know this.

 

[Bon_Croix]

To OP:

Whole of scripture with context and tradition vs. picking parts of scripture.

Baptism is necessary to be initiated into the Church; yet, God isn’t bound by the sacraments.

You could have replied to the customer, “I highly advise Baptism”.

 

[ltwin]

I’ve mentioned this before - my former Baptist Church taught that Baptism was not necessary for salvation. It was an outward sign for others that we were following Christ. Somehow, baptism got connected to Church Membership/voting rights and many did not want to be “members.”

This comes from the distinction between the visible and invisible church in Protestant teaching (at least in the Reformed and evangelical varieties). You can be a member of the invisible church (have faith in Christ, regenerated, mystical communion with the body of Christ, etc.) without being part of the visible church (the organized congregation of believers) and vice versa. Baptism is necessary to join the visible church because it is an outward sign of an inward grace–and to refuse baptism for whatever reason would seem to be a denial of the inward grace symbolized by baptism–but water baptism is not itself attached to salvation. One can be born again/regenerated and converted before, during or after one’s baptism.