Protestant clergy sporting the Roman Collar

[ASimpleSinner]

Is the hat something unique to the Assyrian Orthodox Church?

As far as I can tell yes. The Chaldean Catholic Patriarch - his Catholic counterpart - rather dresses like a broad church cardinal… if such a creature existed.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

A moment of prayer at this time, requested for the plight of Assyrian/Chaldean Christians and their faithful martyrs… most recently accepting Father Ragheed Ganni, a Chaldean Catholic priest, together with three subdeacons who were with him – Basman Yousef Daud, Wahid Hanna Isho, and Gassan Isam Bidawed (killed the Sunday after Pentecost 2007) among their numbers.

 

[BrianK2007]

This is open for Catholics and non-Catholics. I’ve always been amazed why some Protestant sects wear the Roman Collar. Is it that they’re trying to be Catholic, but afraid to embrace it? I’m just not getting it here.

You can put a tutu on a German Shepherd, but that doesn’t make him a ballerina.

 

[BrianK2007]

There is no logic whatever in this statement. Why on earth do you think that if something wrong with one part of Catholicism something must be wrong with everything?

After all, Protestants accept many beliefs in common with Catholics. Why would people who believe in the Trinity and the Resurrection raise objections to a Roman collar? This argument makes no sense at all. Excuse me for my bluntness, but you need to think a little more about this.

I think you are absolutely right and we could all learn something from the way “Protestants” are able to hold two contradictory beliefs at once.

The word “Protestant” means simply ‘to be in a state of protest.’ It would be more accurate to say that the members of the what would be better called clubs or social organizations that sprang up in the 15 and 16 hundreds are in a protestant state. It is somewhat misleading to call these groups “churches” or “religions” because no actual faith or belief is required, you only need to be in protest to The Catholic Church.

For some reason the administrators of these clubs like to call themselves “clergy” and have set up the most remarkable doctrine of ‘double think’ ever devised by the mind of man. It goes something like this. There are five basic rules.

ONE: God is infallible. However, He failed in His attempt to establish a Church, and it was up to man to correct His error.

Two: The Bible is the inspired word of God. But, the body that compiled The Bible had no authority to do so because we already pointed out God is not capable of establishing His own Church. And when man finally corrected God’s error it was necessary to remove seven Books from The Bible.

Three: God’s Covenant is everlasting. Yet when He tried to establish his Church He was unable to do so.

Four:The Bible is the sole ‘rule of faith’ and is infallible. But The Bible itself gives the ‘rule of faith’ to The Church, and as God is not capable of establishing a Church it has proven itself flawed twice in the same verse (1 Tim 3:15)

In the fifth rule the “Protestant” doctrine of double think runs in to trouble.

Five: If you don’t like what your “Protestant” club believes just quit, start a new one and claim that you are keeping the real “faith.” But all that is really required is to be in protest to The Catholic Church so you are keeping the “faith.”

The Trinity and the Resurrection are core Catholic beliefs, how can you believe in something you are protesting?

 

[O.S.Luke]

Here’s some pics of men in the rabat vest (which is different from the much smaller cassock rabat) that show the full band collar and the Roman collar. Note also the appropriate use of French cuffs, which used to be kind of an unoffical part of the outfit and are now making a comeback.

almy.com/rabats.html

Almy is a largely Episcopalian supply house.

 

[MissMaryMack]

This is hypothetical: Logically, if something were “wrong” with one part of Catholicism, why wouldn’t it be wrong with every part? Isn’t that the logic and reason for most Christians outside of the Church? That’s the vibe I’ve been getting

In Pax Christi
Andrew

The Anglicans had this same argument among themselves. They wondered if they should wear any vestments because they were Catholic in origin. One said said they are Catholic so toss them. The other side said the were edifying, so keep them. It was a huge rift in the Protestant world.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestments_controversy

 

[O.S.Luke]

The Book of Common Prayer reflected this as well; the change between 1549 and 1551 was radical indeed.

Of course, you have to remember that the Anglican “line of Reformation” was completely different from the Lutheran one.

 

[phil8888]

I was lookign up some information on the Roman Collar, and came across this website (it was the first google link) and it said the following:

The terms “Roman collar” or “Roman shirt” refer to style, not origin. Clergy shirts are Protestant in origin.

That sounds a bit weird. It’s from www.kencollins.com.

Anyone care to clarify this?

Thanks.

 

[Contarini]

The Book of Common Prayer reflected this as well; the change between 1549 and 1551 was radical indeed.

Of course, you have to remember that the Anglican “line of Reformation” was completely different from the Lutheran one.

Yes. It was in some respects more radical–at least with regards to sacramental theology.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I think you are absolutely right and we could all learn something from the way “Protestants” are able to hold two contradictory beliefs at once.

Of course that is not what I said at all. You think Protestant beliefs are contradictory because you have no desire to understand them–you simply wish to caricature and debunk them. There are of course many Protestants who do the same thing to Catholicism. Why do you want to respond in kind?

The word “Protestant” means simply ‘to be in a state of protest.’

No, it doesn’t. Etymology does not dictate meaning (the “protest” in question is a very specific political/religious protest by Protestant rulers against a law restricting their ability to make religious changes). This is every bit as silly as the Protestant claim that “Catholic” means “universal” and therefore all believers are by definition Catholic.

It would be more accurate to say that the members of the what would be better called clubs or social organizations that sprang up in the 15 and 16 hundreds are in a protestant state. It is somewhat misleading to call these groups “churches” or “religions” because no actual faith or belief is required, you only need to be in protest to The Catholic Church.

I will charitably suppose that you have never actually been in a Protestant church. Not so very charitable though, since where do you get off pontificating about a subject concerning which you know nothing?

Many Protestant churches have far more stringent membership requirements than the Catholic Church, and they are the ones most likely to be anti-Catholic. The Protestant churches that do not care much about what you believe also do not care about whether you “protest” Catholicism. Your statement could not be further off the mark if you were trying.

For some reason the administrators of these clubs like to call themselves “clergy”

The reason is quite clear–“clergy” denotes the religious leaders of any group, in a Christian context those who preach the Word and administer the sacraments.

ONE: God is infallible. However, He failed in His attempt to establish a Church, and it was up to man to correct His error.

Protestants do not believe this. They believe that there has always been a true Church (please do not repeat the tired and ridiculous accusation that Protestants think the Church ceased to exist for a thousand years before the Reformation or whatever–they simply do not think this), but that it is composed of human beings and therefore subject to various sins and errors. Any true effort toward reform obviously comes from God and is not of human origin. Your statement is therefore a ridiculous caricature. One could just as fairly say (as many anti-Catholic Protestants do say) that Catholics don’t think God can manage by Himself because they think He needs the help of popes and priests. Both statements are equally bogus and unworthy of consideration.

Your other points rest on the same absurd premise.

The Trinity and the Resurrection are core Catholic beliefs, how can you believe in something you are protesting?

Because your premise that Protestantism rests on protesting everything Catholic is false to the point of absurdity. You are resting everything on the word “Protestant,” which is a line of argument carrying no weight whatsoever. You can take any commonly used religious label, put your own meaning on it, and then make an argument. We will never have serious discussion along these lines.

Edwin

 

[Nella]

This is open for Catholics and non-Catholics. I’ve always been amazed why some Protestant sects wear the Roman Collar. Is it that they’re trying to be Catholic, but afraid to embrace it? I’m just not getting it here.

Any thoughts?

In Pax Christi
Andrew

I don’t see why you wouldn’t. The collar isn’t just exclusively Roman. Orthodox clergy have worn it for centuries as have Anglicans and Lutherans.