Protestant defense of sola scriptura

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hoosierdaddy said:
Randy, does this help?

**All things in scripture are not equally plain in themselves, nor equally clear to everyone, yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded and revealed in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the educated but also the uneducated may attain a sufficient understanding of them by the due use of ordinary means. ** LCBF 1689
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This contradicts,

1 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Hence the need for reliable teachers.

God Bless,

Michael
 
hoosierdaddy said:
"profitable,"… this says it is profitable, not that it is sufficient.

This in no way supports your argument for sola scriptura.

I already addressed this. It does more than support my argument, it proves it. 👍
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I must have missed it. But I can guarantee that it does not prove it in the least. But go ahead and show me where you addressed it.
 
hoosierdaddy said:
**“profitable,”… this says it is profitable, not that it is sufficient.

This in no way supports your argument for sola scriptura.**

I already addressed this. It does more than support my argument, it proves it. 👍
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I’m sorry, I must have missed your post. Since when has “profitable” meant sufficient?

God Bless,
Michael
 
hoosierdaddy said:
You apparently didn’t read 2Tim. 3:16,17 when you were reading your Bible. Scripture itself, including that verse, along with common sense to correctly interpret what it is saying, proves Sola Scriptura. Debate over. It’s been fun. Chow.
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“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

We agree that anything that is scripture (all scripture) has the nature of being “God-Breathed” (theopneustos) and that scripture is useful, etc. and thoroughly equips the man of God. No problem or argument at all.
  1. Where does the Bible say that ONLY scripture is useful like this?
  2. Another question I have never seen addressed is: How does Scripture (alone) equip the man who is not yet a “man of God”? In other words, would the Bible Alone be sufficient for the unbeliever who is just inquiring into the faith or the total newbie who believes in Christ (death, resurrection, etc) but has no clue about more mature subjects.
  3. Could sound preaching of the Apostle Paul be considered “God-Breathed”? Consider carefully:
    “And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13)
    Paul says that his preaching, which the Thessalonians heard, actually is the word of God.
Thoughts?
 
mikeledes said:
Mrs. Abbot, sometimes I wonder…:hmmm: Just kidding! 😉 Marriage is an element of Christian teaching. A clear teaching on marriage is not found in Scripture. Hence the challenge to Sola Scriptura.

God Bless,
Michael
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Infant Baptism? Baptismal Regeneration?

This are issues that Paul never addressed…he assumed the churches knew these doctrines because of his prior visits.

🙂
 
Randy_Carson said:
Reformed-

Are you saying that 2 Tim 3:16-17 is not adequate for defending sola scriptura?
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That’s not what I was trying to say. If I remember correctly the person I was addressing or the point I was addressing is that Paul was not trying to define the extent of scripture but the nature of scripture.

Now, do I think that 2 Tim 3: 16-17 proves sola scriptura beyond any shadow of a doubt? No, I don’t think the above scripture proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that sola scriptura is an absolute fact.
 
mikeledes said:
Mrs. Abbot, sometimes I wonder…:hmmm: Just kidding! 😉 Marriage is an element of Christian teaching. A clear teaching on marriage is not found in Scripture. Hence the challenge to Sola Scriptura.

God Bless,
Michael
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I understand what you’re saying. The topic just seemed to randomly come up. 😉 The last thing I read was S.S. looking for something on Thessalonians (sp?) and then I see it’s geared toward marriage and then the discussion started to get ugly. :eek:
 
hoosierdaddy said:
Randy, does this help?

**All things in scripture are not equally plain in themselves, nor equally clear to everyone, yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded and revealed in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the educated but also the uneducated may attain a sufficient understanding of them by the due use of ordinary means. **LCBF 1689

Maybe, just maybe there is room for Tradition. I am not concluding that right now. But this makes it clear that everything one needs to know, believe, and observe for salvation are most definitely revealed in Scripture, and Scripture would be the only authority on this matter.
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I like your “maybe”. 🙂

The Catholic Church does not consider itself to be superior or “over” scripture; rather the Church is the caretaker of Scripture. Authentic interpretation is part of protecting God’s Word from those who would seek to mis-use it to support their own ideas. Throughout the course of history, heresy (and I do not mean you!) has always comes wrapped in Bible verses.
 
Hey Randy, thanks. If the Church is the caretaker of Scripture and doesn’t put itself above Scripture that is good. 👍
 
mrs_abbott said:
I understand what you’re saying. The topic just seemed to randomly come up. 😉 The last thing I read was S.S. looking for something on Thessalonians (sp?) and then I see it’s geared toward marriage and then the discussion started to get ugly. :eek:
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It certainly did get ugly! It got ugly when, instead of directly responding to my questions, a whole host of offensive comments were thrown at me. But that is a good way of evading the question, I guess,

God Bless,
Michael
 
Reformed1 said:
That’s not what I was trying to say. If I remember correctly the person I was addressing or the point I was addressing is that Paul was not trying to define the extent of scripture but the nature of scripture.

Now, do I think that 2 Tim 3: 16-17 proves sola scriptura beyond any shadow of a doubt? No, I don’t think the above scripture proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that sola scriptura is an absolute fact.
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I’m awarding you the first ever

HONORARY CATHOLIC OF THE DAY!

:clapping: :dancing: :clapping: :dancing: :clapping: :dancing: :clapping:

Thousands of dollars worth of cash and prizes come with this along with a secret decoder ring that gives you access to the Secret Vatican Archives, so it’s a really big deal. Congratulations!

By the way, you can trade in all the cash for indulgences in case you plan on sinning at some point in the future if you prefer! Just see Father on your way out after mass.

Seriously, Reformed1, do you have any idea how many non-Catholics would absolutely go to the mats over this passage? It’s considered the bedrock verse of sola scriptura, and Catholic apologists have been trying to explain the shortcomings of 2 Tim 3:16-17 for, well, for forever.

You are ahead of the class!

(I hope you have a sense of humor and don’t feel I’ve put you on the spot…the media will see you now.)
 
Randy_Carson said:
I’m awarding you the first ever

HONORARY CATHOLIC OF THE DAY!

:clapping: :dancing: :clapping: :dancing: :clapping: :dancing: :clapping:

Thousands of dollars worth of cash and prizes come with this along with a secret decoder ring that gives you access to the Secret Vatican Archives, so it’s a really big deal. Congratulations!

By the way, you can trade in all the cash for indulgences in case you plan on sinning at some point in the future if you prefer! Just see Father on your way out after mass.

Seriously, Reformed1, do you have any idea how many non-Catholics would absolutely go to the mats over this passage? It’s considered the bedrock verse of sola scriptura, and Catholic apologists have been trying to explain the shortcomings of 2 Tim 3:16-17 for, well, for forever.

You are ahead of the class!

(I hope you have a sense of humor and don’t feel I’ve put you on the spot…the media will see you now.)
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I would also like to give him the Most Civil Protestant of the Day Award. He had the decency to respond to my posts intead of just launching insults. Thank you Reformed1! 👍

God Bless,
Michael
 
mikeledes said:
So, Muslims and several African tribes practice polygamy. Jews and Muslims and our own society allows divorce. Now we have the issue of gay marriage. So how do we determine God’s definition of marriage?

And no… I’m not playing games. I just wish people would stop using baseless accusations to evade answering my questions.

God Bless,
Michael
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Genesis 2:23-24
God created man and then made woman out of “bone of his bone.” The process as recorded tells us that God took one of Adam’s “ribs” (Genesis 2:21-22).

1 Corinthians chapter 7 and another in Ephesians 5:22-33.
These provide the believer with Biblical principles that can be used to form a framework for a God pleasing marriage relationship.

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body” (Ephesians 5:22-23)" “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it” (Ephesians 5:25)." So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church" (Ephesians 5:28-29). “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh” (Ephesians 5:31).

Therefore, the Biblical concept of marriage is a oneness between two individuals that is a picture of the oneness relationship of Christ with His church.
 
julebenn said:
Genesis 2:23-24
God created man and then made woman out of “bone of his bone.” The process as recorded tells us that God took one of Adam’s “ribs” (Genesis 2:21-22).

1 Corinthians chapter 7 and another in Ephesians 5:22-33.
These provide the believer with Biblical principles that can be used to form a framework for a God pleasing marriage relationship.

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body” (Ephesians 5:22-23)" “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it” (Ephesians 5:25)." So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church" (Ephesians 5:28-29). “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh” (Ephesians 5:31).

Therefore, the Biblical concept of marriage is a oneness between two individuals that is a picture of the oneness relationship of Christ with His church.
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So when do the two become one? When is a marriage truly a marriage before God?

God Bless,
Michael
 
mikeledes said:
So when do the two become one? When is a marriage truly a marriage before God?

God Bless,
Michael
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Marriage is an act of will by two people, not a ritual. It is the same as when you trust in Christ to come into your life and become one flesh with you, in salvation.

Marriage is regonized in God’s eyes by the laws of the land in which the couple lives. God gave the laws and gave the government the authority to determine what constitutes a legal marriage (Romans chapter 13; Colossians 1:16).
God honors those laws as well.

Honestly, the Bible does not go into grat detail but every culture that has ever existed has practiced some form of ceremony of joining a man and a woman together.

Many believe that Genesis 2:22-24 was God performing the first Wedding.
 
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