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Peter_J
Guest
Fr. Robert Hart has an interesting blog entry about that word.
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Peter_J
Guest
Not to be picky, but we’d prefer to call them “catholic”.
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dochawk
Guest
that blog entry is great!
and going back to the early Common Law period, “felony” was a status–it meant that life & lands e forfeit to the crown. Felony was inherently capital . .
Today, we’re a bit more lenient, with “felony” meaning a crime punishable by a year or more imprisonment (I think there’s a southern state where it’s two years).
hawk
and going back to the early Common Law period, “felony” was a status–it meant that life & lands e forfeit to the crown. Felony was inherently capital . .
Today, we’re a bit more lenient, with “felony” meaning a crime punishable by a year or more imprisonment (I think there’s a southern state where it’s two years).
hawk
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
In fact, “Protestant” was once widely used to describe . . . St Joan of Arc and it was used, of course, by her English opponents in a more political context.
The early “Protestants” didn’t like the term and preferred “Reformed Catholick” as opposed to “Romish Catholick.”
(The term “Catholic” is no one’s monopoly, BTW).
In Russian, a Roman Catholic is a “KaTolik” and an Orthodox Christian is a “KaFolik” - the hard “T” signifies the Western (and thus RC) transliteration while the “F” signifies the Slavonic translation of “Th” (the Slavs could not pronounce the “Th” sound so Sts Cyril and Methodius invented the “F” letter in Slavic for them).
Evangelical scholars have, on occasion, suggested that the word “Protestant” be gotten rid of altogether as it defines their faith in terms of reacting to the a priori’s of Roman Catholicism (in a negative way, of course).
Alex
The early “Protestants” didn’t like the term and preferred “Reformed Catholick” as opposed to “Romish Catholick.”
(The term “Catholic” is no one’s monopoly, BTW).
In Russian, a Roman Catholic is a “KaTolik” and an Orthodox Christian is a “KaFolik” - the hard “T” signifies the Western (and thus RC) transliteration while the “F” signifies the Slavonic translation of “Th” (the Slavs could not pronounce the “Th” sound so Sts Cyril and Methodius invented the “F” letter in Slavic for them).
Evangelical scholars have, on occasion, suggested that the word “Protestant” be gotten rid of altogether as it defines their faith in terms of reacting to the a priori’s of Roman Catholicism (in a negative way, of course).
Alex
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
To be fair, Catholics likewise killed Protestants - no bag limit imposed on either side.
Alex
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
FYI and as an aside, I’m going to my first Anglican Use Mass this Sunday where a very close Anglican friend of mine will become Catholic (in the RC senseWhen protestant say “Roman Catholic Church” they’re talking about it in a whole to include the Eastern branches (at least the educated ones do anyway).
We say Roman because we tend to consider “Anglican” reformed Catholic, we know there’s a separate Polish National Catholic Church.
There’s other “Catholic” Churches we have to refer to you know.
). I’m going to meet another Anglican there to possibly become his sponsor for his future reception.Please pray for us all!
Alex
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Nine_Two
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Would you be happier if they just called you the “Roman Church”, omitting the word Catholic altogether? Because that was used at least as early as Trent to define the entire communion.
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Vico
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People can call me whatever they want to. The Catholic Church does not use “Roman Catholic Church” in their documents, so I don’t either, but it is commonly used by others. It is usually clear what the meaning is. For example in InfoPlease, this sentence appears:
“Catholics of Eastern rites have their own separate codes of canon law, approved by the Roman Catholic Church.”
Read more: canon law — Infoplease.com infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0810222.html#ixzz1sXx7Fv47
This implies that the Catholic Church is the name of the Latin and eastern Catholic churches taken together, and that Roman Catholic Church means at least the Supreme Pontiff with Roman Curia.
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Nine_Two
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My point was that the term “Roman Church” as a catchall (apparently) predates the English legal use of “Roman Catholic Church”.
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Vico
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Surely, Roman Church goes back to ancient times and includes the Byzantine.
The latter term “Romish Church” was first used in 1531.
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Nine_Two
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In light of that, I don’t see how adding the term “Catholic” to the title can be seen as the insult some Catholics take it to be.
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Peter_J
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I don’t think it’s so much that “Roman Catholic” is insulting, as that Catholics and Orthodox have competing claims to be the Catholic Church. If you guys gave up your claim to that name, there wouldn’t be any problem about it.
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Alexander_Roman
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Excellent point - the Turks themselves always referred to the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople as the “Patriarch of the Romans.” And the Oriental Orthodox always regarded both Old Rome and New Rome as “one Rome” and the Roman province of the Church.
Alex
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Vico
Guest
We also have the Council of Lyons 1274 A.D.:“This same holy Roman church itself, has over the whole Catholic Church the supreme and full primacy and sovereign authority; which, it humbly and truthfully recalls to mind, [the Roman church] received from the Lord himself, with all fullness of power, through blessed Peter, the chief and the head of the Apostles, of whom the Bishop of Rome is the successor. And as before all else that church is bound to protect the true belief, so it is that whenever disputes arise about the faith they must be decided by the judgment of that church.[18] To which church any person troubled by any matter that belongs to the ecclesiastical courts, can make appeal, and have recourse in all cases that belong to the Church’s supervision; and to this same [Roman] church, all the other churches are subject,[19] and their bishops owe to it obedience and reverence. The fullness of its authority is so constituted that it allows the other churches a part in these cares,[20] many of which churches, and especially the Patriarchal churches, the Roman church honours with divers privileges, its own special rights always respected, especially in what relates to General Councils and certain other matters.”[21]
- The two first sentences of this quotation appear, as the testimony of this council, in the Vatican Council’s constitution defining the infallibility of the pope’s ex cathedra decisions (1870).
- In our more usual phraseology, seven hundred years later, “To this same Roman see, all the other sees are subject.”
- Ad sollicitudinis partem admittit. The second word recalls St. Paul (II Corinthians 11:28): “… my daily pressing anxiety, the care of all the churches”; where the Latin Bible has sollicitudo, the English has “care.”
- Ibid., no. 466.
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xushaoaasd
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