Protestant Forefathers

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Evangelical convert and author Mark P. Shea writes that we interpret things by viewing them through various lenses. It appears that the OP’s evangelical friend is interpreting by looking at a fun-house mirror. That friend needs to look a little more into the early Church fathers than at the early American fathers.
 
I’m not positive what religion Christopher Columbus was but surly you cannot suggest he was Protestant. 😉

Juuuuuuuuus’sayin…
 
adf417 said:
I’m not positive what religion Christopher Columbus was but surly you cannot suggest he was Protestant. 😉

Juuuuuuuuus’sayin…
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Christopher Columbus was evil. And he did not discover America. The Vikings made it here hundreds of years before he had. Archealogy has confirmed this. He was also cruel to his crew and was pivotal in starting the slave-trade.

I wouldn’t want to claim him 😉
 
St_Redemption said:
Christopher Columbus was evil. And he did not discover America. The Vikings made it here hundreds of years before he had. Archealogy has confirmed this. He was also cruel to his crew and was pivotal in starting the slave-trade.

I wouldn’t want to claim him 😉
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You can’t change history. Yes, the Vikings happened to be in what is now Eastern Canada long before Columbus discovered the New World, but the Viking discovery amounted to nothing. What lasting European colonies were established as a result of their discovery? Christopher Columbus, regardless of what you think of him, opened the door that led to the exploration and colonization of the Americas by European powers. Was this a good thing? That’s another debate…but anyone who lives in the Americas, from Canada down to Argentina, unless you are 100% First Nations/native American, wouldn’t be here if not for Columbus.
 
I agree that the Viking discovery amounted to little or nothing, since it was not widely publicized.

As for the City on a Hill and it supposedly being the USA, have you taken a look at the USA lately? Not much of a shining light…for orthodox Christianity anyway.

Columbus: a victim of a trend to demonize many historical persons and events. Even the USA (this “City on a Hill”) has been trashed because of its history (slavery, extermination or internment of Indians, etc.)
 
St_Redemption said:
Christopher Columbus was evil. And he did not discover America. The Vikings made it here hundreds of years before he had. Archealogy has confirmed this. He was also cruel to his crew and was pivotal in starting the slave-trade.

I wouldn’t want to claim him 😉
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Columbus was a product of his time. We can look through our modern lenses and judge him, but we must judge him, and anyone, through the context of the time they lived in. Being cruel to one’s crew was probably standard practice, and slavery existed long before Columbus.
There’s nothing heroic in Columbus’ “discovery”. He happened upon the Americas quite inadvertently. He was no hero, nor was he a villain, in my view.

Jon
 
Prodigal_Son said:
No. No more than Nazi Germany was anointed by God.
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Though bordering on Godwinning the thread, I think this bears repeating!

I don’t know where, how, or why this brand of American Exceptionalism married with supposed divine providence came into existence, but it needs to stop. The United States is not some divinely instituted nation, its founders are not Saints, and the Constitution is not Scripture. God played no more a role in the American Revolution than he did in those of the French, or that of the Haitians. Catholics (or anyone else for that matter) have nothing to explain. The United States is predominantly Protestant because it began as a colony of a Protestant nation.
 
Brandon_Cal said:
Though bordering on Godwinning the thread, I think this bears repeating!

I don’t know where, how, or why this brand of American Exceptionalism married with supposed divine providence came into existence, but it needs to stop. The United States is not some divinely instituted nation, its founders are not Saints, and the Constitution is not Scripture. God played no more a role in the American Revolution than he did in those of the French, or that of the Haitians. Catholics (or anyone else for that matter) have nothing to explain. The United States is predominantly Protestant because it began as a colony of a Protestant nation.
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Well stated, Brandon. Thanks.
 
The country started by Protestant forefathers is the main consumer of drugs, and exporter of porn in the world. Nice…
 
JonNC said:
It is also the number one exporter of charitable help for those worldwide that need it.

Jon
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So is the Catholic Church. It does so much good but that doesn’t seem to matter when minds are made up. I know that what you say is true as well. I just think it ignorant to say that because the USA is a protestant founded country that is why it is a great as it is. I was just trying to drive a point home. It is not a nation of divine origin. History makes that very clear. It was founded on “some” Christian values not entirely.
 
franc1sc0 said:
So is the Catholic Church. It does so much good but that doesn’t seem to matter when minds are made up. I know that what you say is true as well. I just think it ignorant to say that because the USA is a protestant founded country that is why it is a great as it is. I was just trying to drive a point home. It is not a nation of divine origin. History makes that very clear. It was founded on “some” Christian values not entirely.
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I would agree if your point is Protestantism isn’t specifically the reason. I would also agree that it is not by divine origin. I do think, however, that whatever greatness America has had is due in large part to the Judeo-Christian foundations of our nation. And to the extent that we stray from those foundations, our greatness is diminished.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I would agree if your point is Protestantism isn’t specifically the reason. I would also agree that it is not by divine origin. I do think, however, that whatever greatness America has had is due in large part to the Judeo-Christian foundations of our nation. And to the extent that we stray from those foundations, our greatness is diminished.

Jon
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I think we agree on both points. It is a great country. BUT… Some folks do act like its a Divine nation. It is great and a beacon of light to the world. There were some pretty bad Catholic nations as well. Your last statement is so very true.
 
franc1sc0 said:
I think we agree on both points. It is a great country. BUT… Some folks do act like its a Divine nation. It is great and a beacon of light to the world. There were some pretty bad Catholic nations as well. Your last statement is so very true.
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Thanks. I neglected to acknowledge your comment in a previous post that; “So is the Catholic Church. It does so much good but that doesn’t seem to matter when minds are made up.”
This is certainly true, and an excellent example for all Christian communions.

Jon
 
I’m really sorry to ruffle feathers here, but I have a hard time understanding the USA as even a “Good Nation”. We have quite the horrid history to account for, and I don’t believe either Catholics or Protestants are expected to account for it. We are no different than any other nation that has ever existed in history, and with all our wonderful attributes comes our awful warts. I firmly believe that God had nothing to do with our founding, and he has nothing to do with our sustenance as a superpower. I may very well be jaded by my own Church’s stance on “Americanism” (I’m a Mormon), but I’m very sore by many Christian Americans speaking about our nation as if we are actually endowed with some sort of infallibility as a people. Christianity is Supra-American.
 
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