Protestant Forum I Checked Out

[CradleRC58]

You want to see hatred of Catholicism in person instead of on the internet, visit Louisville Kentucky and walk the halls of the dorms at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. You will soon be appalled at what you see hanging on the doors to the rooms in these dorms.

Satan has a death grip on that outfit.

 

[mcq72]

This is the very reason why there is a need for the Catholic church. Christ knew we would need the Church to show the way to salvation, the way to get washed in the blood of the Lamb, since as we can see, in the non-Catholic communities, there would be chaos. The big question among non-Catholics is, how do you get “washed in the blood of the Lamb?”. When asking you will easily get way, way more than two different answers. This difference of opinion on how one obtains salvation is the very thing that continues to cause division in non-Catholic churches and brings non-Catholics home to the Catholic church.

You miss my point. Regardless of how you define or get there (washed by the blood, where Jesus knows me), there will be saints out of your Catholic uniformity, or Orthodox uniformity, or out of your perceived chaos of Protestantism.

Whatever your perception is of other non c churches, Christ is just as alive and working out the formation of His bride in them despite our shortcomings ( both real and perceived).

As to how one is “washed”, my opinion is that there are not way more than two ways as you opine.

As to coming home, we are all sojourners here, pilgrims, on our way to our “home”. If you want to say the journey is better on your ship, fine. I would not judge what ship is better by their name , but by qualities they both profess and posses. So kind of like boasting "I am of Peter or I am of Paul " instead of judging by who is walking in the spirit and exhibiting His fruits etc., be it first individuals, then parishes or communities and finally faith communities at large (Catholic, Ortho, Presb., Baptist etc).

PS. The big question in better communities is not how you get “washed” but are you washed.

 

[mcq72]

just saying that most Protestants would say that the search should be for the right beliefs, not the right institution.

Not sure if that is accurate…not sure if believer looks for a wrong institution but with the right beliefs, or vice versa, the right institution but with wrong beliefs.

I would think most brethren think the right church/institution has the right beliefs.

 

[HopkinsReb]

Sure. The point is that “which is the true church established by Jesus Christ and continuing since His day” is not usually the question they’re asking.

 

[adf417]

As to coming home, we are all sonourners here, pilgrims, on our way to our “home”. If you want to say the journey is better on your ship, fine. I would not judge what ship is better by their name , but by qualities they both profess and posses. So kind of like boasting "I am of Peter or I am of Paul " instead of judging by who is walking in the spirit and exhibiting His fruits etc., be it first individuals, then parishes or communities and finally faith communities at large (Catholic, Ortho, Presb., Baptist etc).

I think this post shows clearly the differences in language being used when describing church vs Church.

If by “qualities they profess and posses” you mean the individual, we all agree. If by “qualities they profess and posses” you mean their teaching or how they “should act” then we might differ.

Any time you run across a Catholic who is not professing or possessing what is spelled out in the the Catechism of the Catholic Church you have ever right to point out their discrepancies using this valuable tool. Its free and on line and anyone can use it for understanding and correction. I know, you would say “the bible it the tool you use for understanding and correction” and you would be absolutely correct, at least until you find yourself drowning in that sea of differing interpretations.

No one is arguing that there is bad Christian behaviors within the church scattered throughout and it is everywhere. The differences is can this bad behavior be definitively corrected without obscure terms like “listen to the Holy Spirit and you will know”, an over usage that all Christians are using in their own defence to justify their position aginst the other.

As i said the CCC is a valuable tool for Catholics and non-Catholicis alike. The Catholic can use it to learn. The non-Catholic can you it as correction or a sword for poor behaving or misunderstanding Catholics. Is there anything like this in the whole of Protestantism outside the bible? There is a poster that just mentioned the Southern Baptist University a couple posts back. Assuming what they say is true, is this the place all Protestants should look to for understanding and correction? I would like a direct answer to this since it is a “university”, a place of learning please.

Peace!!!

 

[Wannano]

mcq72:

As to coming home, we are all sonourners here, pilgrims, on our way to our “home”. If you want to say the journey is better on your ship, fine. I would not judge what ship is better by their name , but by qualities they both profess and posses. So kind of like boasting "I am of Peter or I am of Paul " instead of judging by who is walking in the spirit and exhibiting His fruits etc., be it first individuals, then parishes or communities and finally faith communities at large (Catholic, Ortho, Presb., Baptist etc).

I think this post shows clearly the differences in language being used when describing church vs Church.

If by “qualities they profess and posses” you mean the individual, we all agree. If by “qualities they profess and posses” you mean their teaching or how they “should act” then we might differ.

Any time you run across a Catholic who is not professing or possessing what is spelled out in the the Catechism of the Catholic Church you have ever right to point out their discrepancies using this valuable tool. Its free and on line and anyone can use it for understanding and correction. I know, you would say “the bible it the tool you use for understanding and correction” and you would be absolutely correct, at least until you find yourself drowning in that sea of differing interpretations.

No one is arguing that there is bad Christian behaviors within the church scattered throughout and it is everywhere. The differences is can this bad behavior be definitively corrected without obscure terms like “listen to the Holy Spirit and you will know”, an over usage that all Christians are using in their own defence to justify their position aginst the other.

As i said the CCC is a valuable tool for Catholics and non-Catholicis alike. The Catholic can use it to learn. The non-Catholic can you it as correction or a sword for poor behaving or misunderstanding Catholics. Is there anything like this in the whole of Protestantism outside the bible? There is a poster that just mentioned the Southern Baptist University a couple posts back. Assuming what they say is true, is this the place all Protestants should look to for understanding and correction? I would like a direct answer to this since it is a “university”, a place of learning please.

Peace!!!

No, of course not.

 

[adf417]

adf417:

mcq72:

As to coming home, we are all sonourners here, pilgrims, on our way to our “home”. If you want to say the journey is better on your ship, fine. I would not judge what ship is better by their name , but by qualities they both profess and posses. So kind of like boasting "I am of Peter or I am of Paul " instead of judging by who is walking in the spirit and exhibiting His fruits etc., be it first individuals, then parishes or communities and finally faith communities at large (Catholic, Ortho, Presb., Baptist etc).

I think this post shows clearly the differences in language being used when describing church vs Church.

If by “qualities they profess and posses” you mean the individual, we all agree. If by “qualities they profess and posses” you mean their teaching or how they “should act” then we might differ.

Any time you run across a Catholic who is not professing or possessing what is spelled out in the the Catechism of the Catholic Church you have ever right to point out their discrepancies using this valuable tool. Its free and on line and anyone can use it for understanding and correction. I know, you would say “the bible it the tool you use for understanding and correction” and you would be absolutely correct, at least until you find yourself drowning in that sea of differing interpretations.

No one is arguing that there is bad Christian behaviors within the church scattered throughout and it is everywhere. The differences is can this bad behavior be definitively corrected without obscure terms like “listen to the Holy Spirit and you will know”, an over usage that all Christians are using in their own defence to justify their position aginst the other.

As i said the CCC is a valuable tool for Catholics and non-Catholicis alike. The Catholic can use it to learn. The non-Catholic can you it as correction or a sword for poor behaving or misunderstanding Catholics. Is there anything like this in the whole of Protestantism outside the bible? There is a poster that just mentioned the Southern Baptist University a couple posts back. Assuming what they say is true, is this the place all Protestants should look to for understanding and correction? I would like a direct answer to this since it is a “university”, a place of learning please.

Peace!!!

No, of course not.

But yet there are many people desperately searching for the rest of the answer to the question. ‘No, of course not” to my question does not help these people. If not Southern Baptist Theological Seminary then where? Would the powers that be at SBTS agree with your assessment and what authorty do you have to disagree with them?

Peace!!!

 

[Wannano]

Maybe I am not understanding correctly. I thought you wanted only a direct answer so I gave my answer as directly as I could. I have never heard of this university and I doubt your sincerity somewhat in you even asking because I believe you already know better.

The different Protestant denominations have their own Confessions of Faith statements that define their doctrines and practices. The CC has its Catachiesm which is very hard to understand and is even interpreted differently by not only lay people but even different priests. Catholics all tell others " you need to discuss this with your priest." Seems logical because every priest will of course tell you the same thing…yeah right! Of course with the Catachiesm being such an efficent and available guide to all laity gives reason for some to correct others by indicating they were not properly catachorized (sp?) .

One only has to be on caf for awhile to realize that Catholics also have very differing opinions of how to interpret their own guidelines. The accepted variance within Catholicism as it relates to most things is not much different than the various practices within Protestantism.

 

[adf417]

Maybe I am not understanding correctly. I thought you wanted only a direct answer so I gave my answer as directly as I could. I have never heard of this university and I doubt your sincerity somewhat in you even asking because I believe you already know better.

I do know which is why i am Catholic but dont read any insincerity into it please as there is much confusion being professed in the name of “Christianity” and, though your were direct, incomplete answers to someone searching is not Christ like.

The different Protestant denominations have their own Confessions of Faith statements that define their doctrines and practices. The CC has its Catachiesm which is very hard to understand and is even interpreted differently by not only lay people but even different priests. Catholics all tell others " you need to discuss this with your priest." Seems logical because every priest will of course tell you the same thing…yeah right! Of course with the Catachiesm being such an efficent and available guide to all laity gives reason for some to correct others by indicating they were not properly catachorized (sp?) .

You can avoid the elephant in the room all you want but when it comes down to it, since there is one final voice within Catholicism, everything you speak about here becomes irrelevant to the one truly searching. Where is this in the Protestant realm? How will the people attending the SBTS or CARM (from OP) know definitively they are being duped and don’t actually speak for the whole of Christianity?

CONTINUED>>>

 

[adf417]

CONTINUED>>>

One only has to be on caf for awhile to realize that Catholics also have very differing opinions of how to interpret their own guidelines. The accepted variance within Catholicism as it relates to most things is not much different than the various practices within Protestantism.

Practices, yes. Defining what those practices should be, no.

This thread began as a discussion about possible poor practices within Christianity (specifically on CARM). To address this with any validity would take some sort of judgment and as always these discussions here on CAF get twisted. Twisted from usage of bad practices to define bad authority and confusing the discussion with interpretation of guidelines with bad practices. I really dont care to discuss bad practices as we all are guilty of them and we are all in agreement of that point. The differences is judgment, if there is any, and authority to define this judgment. As I told the poster before you I know your answer to this issue is “let the HS guide you in to truth” or “read scripture and you will know” but i don’t think God works that way to be so vague to His people. I hope you are not one of those that think there is no way for Christ’s church to know definitively all truth in terms of salvation?

If you would like to discuss the differing opinions of interpretation of Catholic guidelines we can, that is if you can grasp the notion that there is ultimately no confusion on our side of our own teachings as we are the ones with one voice where needed.

Peace!!!

 

[MichaelP3]

since there is one final voice within Catholicism, everything you speak about here becomes irrelevant to the one truly searching.

I was actually wondering. When was this “one final voice” used recently?

From the top of my head I can think maybe the death penalty. Also just here on CAF that is full of academics and self appointed apologists the answers were/are

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes but…
4. No but…
5. Ughhhh

Regards

 

[adf417]

since there is one final voice within Catholicism, everything you speak about here becomes irrelevant to the one truly searching.

I was actually wondering. When was this “one final voice” used recently?

IDK.

From the top of my head I can think maybe the death penalty.

Any yet there is still division on this issue which should prove to you that further clarification on this, or any issue is not necessarly what is needed.

Also just here on CAF that is full of academics and self appointed apologists the answers were/are

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes but…
4. No but…
5. Ughhhh

As i said, for the one TRULY seeking. But just incase, you may want to read the disclaimer at the bottom of your screen. It also goes for the Catholic Church also.

Peace!!!

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I would think most brethren think the right church/institution has the right beliefs.

In all charity are they thinking they found the “institution” that has the right beliefs because they searched and studied that denomination, it’s history and who began that denomination, then compared it against others and their history, or have they chose it because they studied early Christian history and can find their denomination in early New Testament times, or perhaps they chose that denomination because it is easy, maybe they grew up there or (and this is the one it usually is) that denomination fits well with their own beliefs. Kind of everyone being their own individual pope.
I asked this because these are the questions I had to ask myself at one point.

Also just here on CAF that is full of academics and self appointed apologists the answers were/are

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes but…
4. No but…
5. Ughhhh

The difference is, it is not the people of the Church that have the final authority but the Church and it’s deposit of faith - Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition as taught by the Magisterium.
To understand what the Catholic church teaches, CAF forum is not the best place to learn or at least it is just a starting place. Many people here are not Catholic or are poorly catechized Catholics, some are Catholics coming here for answers their own self. When talking to people here, you have no idea who they are or where they are on their spiritual journey. Best to search out Catholic truths in the Catechisms (Roman Catechism, Catechism of the Catholic church, Baltimore catechism) and solid Catholic websites, where you know exactly who the person is that is answering. That way you will come to understand truly that the Catholic Church “is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

God bless

 

[Emeraldlady]

As to coming home, we are all sojourners here, pilgrims, on our way to our “home”. If you want to say the journey is better on your ship, fine. I would not judge what ship is better by their name , but by qualities they both profess and posses. So kind of like boasting "I am of Peter or I am of Paul " instead of judging by who is walking in the spirit and exhibiting His fruits etc., be it first individuals, then parishes or communities and finally faith communities at large (Catholic, Ortho, Presb., Baptist etc).

The unique quality of Catholicism that is abandoned by all break away denominations, is the conviction of unity and agreement on the indispensable tenets of faith. Catholicism aches for reconciliation as Christs Church whereas nonCatholic Christians accept division as fine with only theoretical agreement based on agreeing to disagree on what is Truth.

 

[Wannano]

[quote="MagdalenaRita, post:216,

To understand what the Catholic church teaches, CAF forum is not the place to learn or at least it is just a starting place. Many people here are not Catholic or are poorly catechized Catholics, some are Catholics coming here for answers their own self.

God bless
[/quote]

---

So CAF is then a Catholic CARM. A priest once told me that it is unwise to come here.

Any advice on how to kick the habit?

 

[MichaelP3]

The difference is, it is not the people of the Church that have the final authority but the Church and it’s deposit of faith - Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition as taught by the Magisterium.

Well in this specific case it was Pope Francis himself. Unless you mean he is only “a people of the Church”? But that would just make me ask my question again!

But anyway. To get to the point which I was hoping I was making clear. Division is pretty much present in the Catholic Church whether anyone likes it or not. They can all call themselves Catholic and that is fine (I am not the one who brought it up) but to throw the stone is pretty hypocritical… and that was the very “single authority”?

Basically what I am saying is that people on here should think a bit before they speak.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Well in this specific case it was Pope Francis himself. Unless you mean he is only “a people of the Church”?

I am thinking you are maybe talking about the change in capital punishment? Not sure?
The Pope is the chief ruler, shepherd, successor of Peter, Bishop of Rome and Vicar of Christ on Earth but he is subordinate to God. There are things he can change and things he can not.

There are areas in which Catholics disagree, yes, but as far as doctrines and dogmas are concerned, or what one is required to believe, there is unity. There are different “rites”, such as Latin rite, Maronite, or Byzantine but there is only one Catholic church.

Basically what I am saying is that people on here should think a bit before they speak.

I certainly agree with that and have to watch my ownself because I, too, can let my answers go in directions they shouldn’t.

God bless

 

[MichaelP3]

I really appreciate your post.

But my post was with regards to division that is “pointed out so many times” yet there are very much division everywhere else (including the CC) and even with regards to the “authority” which made something clear . That is all in this post.

So that is where I would like fellow posters to realise it. It doesn’t help to bash where you are cracked yourself. Especially not if that’s the very reason (on the topic) you claimed not to be cracked…

Regards

 

[MichaelP3]

Any yet there is still division on this issue which should prove to you that further clarification on this, or any issue is not necessarly what is needed.

So first of all you admit division. That is okay as it is pretty evident.

Further more clarification is not needed if I understand you correctly? Because?

And then that just makes the point. This “authority” also makes for division as is proved. And the division is very evident. Whether one calls themselve a specific name does not eliminate that. They are not “just submitting”. Which then again begs the question on this “authority”.

Just a thought and my question stands.

Regards.

 

[Emeraldlady]

A Catholic identifies as a member of a visible family so that even though there are quarrels and discussions among the members, the family unit stands. The Pope (Papa) has parental authority to establish rules and obligations that ensure the family of Christians endures.