Protestant Franciscans, Augustinians, and Benedictines. Are these guys in denial?

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Lepanto said:
It also works the other way around. A gross misunderstanding of the authentic intent of ecumenism destroys Catholic religious communities.

This Benedictine women’s monastery in the diocese of Madison, Wisconsin had drifted away from the Catholic Church for decades, until they voluntarily went into schism in 2006. The Vatican and Bishop Morlino of Madison rightly no longer recognize their (shrinking and aging) community as Catholic.

Unfortunately, the community does injury to the Benedictine Order by retaining “Benedictine” in their name. (It’s good for marketing their retreats, one supposes.)

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=7086

External forces (e.g., Anglican Communion) can destroy Catholic religious communities, but so can forces from within such as misunderstood ecumenism.
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This is not the same as non-Catholic communities forming and being drawn into the Church. Actually, you could make a long list of “Catholic” communities that have fallen off the edge of the earth in theology and discipline. “Creation spirituality” anyone? Makes the Anglicans look positively Papist!
 
Br_Mark said:
There are several Anglican monastic communities (all Benedictian Monasteries are independent) of Benedictians, and most of those ( In fact all of them as far as I know are members of the world wide federation of benedictians) Since the RC Benedictians do not have a problem with Anglican or Lutheran Benedictians; I have a problem seeing why any one else would have a problem with it.B
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Br. Mark,

To my knowledge, this is the top official website of the far-flung worldwide Benedictine Confederation.

osb-international.info/index/en.html

The Atlas page aims to be a directory of every monastery in the world that is part of the diverse Benedictine family. I (name removed by moderator)ut the names/searched for several Anglican and Lutheran monasteries that claim to be “Benedictine”, but the search turned up nothing.

I would think that Anglican and Lutheran “Benedictine” monasteries would turn up in this directory if the Curia of the Abbot Primate recognized non-Catholic “Benedictines” as authentic Benedictines.

However, since such communities are not listed, I must conclude that the Benedictine hierarchy does not recognize them as part of the authentic Benedictine family.

Please let me know if I missed something with this research.
 
Lepanto said:
Br. Mark,

To my knowledge, this is the top official website of the far-flung worldwide Benedictine Confederation.

osb-international.info/index/en.html

The Atlas page aims to be a directory of every monastery in the world that is part of the diverse Benedictine family. I (name removed by moderator)ut the names/searched for several Anglican and Lutheran monasteries that claim to be “Benedictine”, but the search turned up nothing.

I would think that Anglican and Lutheran “Benedictine” monasteries would turn up in this directory if the Curia of the Abbot Primate recognized non-Catholic “Benedictines” as authentic Benedictines.

However, since such communities are not listed, I must conclude that the Benedictine hierarchy does not recognize them as part of the authentic Benedictine family.

Please let me know if I missed something with this research.
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Wow…did post #123 become a thread killer?

Or does anyone have evidence which disagrees with my findings and conclusion?
 
SIA said:
I can’t believe that you just now have discovered these.
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Actually, no, I’ve known about them for years. I lived fairly close to the second one for over 20 years and often drove by it.

But how is when I “discovered” them germane to this thread?
 
Lepanto said:
Actually, no, I’ve known about them for years. I lived fairly close to the second one for over 20 years and often drove by it.

But how is when I “discovered” them germane to this thread?
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Why then are you seemingly surprised that these orders are not sustained as exclusively Roman Catholic?
 
When I look at the Roman Catholic community around were I live, churches and monasteries are closing. Protestant religious orders may be what keeps this unique calling alive.

Love & Blessings.
Aldebaran
 
Lepanto said:
Do they not know that the founders of these orders were Catholics and that their constitutions were approved by popes?

What’s next? Will a group of Protestant Jesuits be founded to convert Protestants back to the Catholic Church? It’s about as absurd as a dog thinking that it’s a cat just because they both have fur and four legs. The external trappings may be there, but neither the substance nor essence are the same.

Rather than threatening the “monopoly”, these psuedo-orders are adulterating the true orders. The founding saints must be spinning in their proverbial graves.
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The fact that YOU consider them worthless is your problem I guess. I don’t know why you are so upset. It’s just confounding to me and others why some Roman Catholics want to hoard holiness to only themselves.
 
I have heard stories of intercommunion between RC and Anglican Franciscans, on the grounds that they see themselves as Franciscans first and RCs or Anglicans second.

I myself am hoping to go to St Gregory’s Abbey, a Benedictine community in Michigan this summer for their vocational discernment programme. Affiliated with the Episcopal Church, they were founded in the 1930s and until Vatican II celebrated the Tridentine Mass.
 
Lepanto said:
What do you think he’s aiming at?
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Judging from his general comments in paras 3 and 4, and his specific comment in para 4 about “insidious and destructive phenomenon”, followed by his para headings, I’d say he was talking about Tridentine Catholics (TLM onlyists), Sedavacantists, Novus Papa Catholics (there’s a Pope in the chair, but it’s not the one you think), and buffet, or cafeteria Catholics.

GKC
 
SpiritMeadow said:
The fact that YOU consider them worthless is your problem I guess. I don’t know why you are so upset. It’s just confounding to me and others why some Roman Catholics want to hoard holiness to only themselves.
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Surely it is a good thing that there are Anglican religious orders - for Anglicans, & for Catholics. Not forgetting Lutheran sisterhoods 🙂​

 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Maybe the topic had exhausted itself for the time being.​

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Well, regarding post #123, I would think that the worldwide Benedictine Confederation has the authority to decide which monasteries can rightly be considered “Benedictine.” (Similarly, the Catholic Church has the authority to decide who is the legitimate pope despite all the make-believe popes out there.)

The absence of any Protestant organizations from the Benedictine Confederation should say something, so I guess post #123 remains unanswered…
 
The Anglican Order of St Benedict’s monasteries are listed in the directory on the Benedictine Confederation’s website. And as I’ve said before, the Franciscan orders of the two churches recognize one another.
 
RevDrNorth said:
Actually, as I underdstand it, although they cannot share the Eucharist there is often a bond between these Religious orders that crosses denominational lines since they share something in common. I have heard of considerable fraternity.

RevNorth
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The Taizé-community in France is THE example of ecumenical fraternity. The Brothers are from all denominations: Lutherans, Reformed, Roman-Catholic, Eastern-Orthodox…
 
I am rather shocked to see that the only barriers that we are still putting up in the church today are MAN MADE.
This business of saying “because you do not follow this you can’t be with us” is a man made barrier.
The Lord Jesus Christ did not tell anyone Roman Catholic or Protestant to act in this manner. When persons outside of the church see either side acting in this manner, what part do they want of us? The world does these things. Funny we are instruced by Scripture to “be not of the world” but yet we sit in church and profess one thing and yet profane the sacraments and Christ’s offer of salvation to all by putting up this petty arguing over who is the genuine article.

As I remember my monastic history, most orders in their infancy had to work outside of the “mother church” as one blogger called it, untill they could get the charter or oversight needed from Rome. Does this mean that those friars or nuns were not valid for the same petty reasons that some are thowing up regarding the Protestant orders because they did operate outside of the church?

I think the important thing to actually be asking here is, do these orders (both Catholic and Protestant) bring honor to God, not just by their words by by their life and actions; and if the answer be yes then pull the beam out of your own eye before pulling the speck out of theirs.
 
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