Protestant Friend Doesn’t Like Hymns About Mary

[Wannano]

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

I have never seen it that way at all. It sounds more like the whispering of an angel into the ear of Mary soon after she delivered Jesus.

As I said, the words of the song suggest Jesus said NOTHING TO Mary for 30 yrs? God didn’t teach His own mother that whole time they were together? Even at 12 yrs old, Jesus was found preaching and teaching in the temple. He never taught His own mother?

It is ridiculous to say or think that. The words of the song do not say that to me but if they do for you then do with it want you want. I have no objection to songs that include Mary.

That’s not the point. It’s words of songs imposing negatives on her that I object to, in spite of her being the mother of God they make speculations dismissing she is the mother of God, and God left her in the dark on who she is, and who He is, and what she knew about that. It’s presuming God said nothing to her for over 30 years while they were together…

If the word “will” was “would” your interpretation would make sense. I am quite suprised you insist on beating the Protestantism out of this song in this way for I see something more in the words of the song that may concern you than the perceived tense.

 

[TheLittleLady]

There is a particular brand of Protestantism that paints the Blessed Mother as an uneducated, just any girl. They believe that if Mary said “no” then Gabriel would have gone next door to Sofia and then on down the block til one young woman agreed. Those of us who have known that sort of teaching can hear it echo in that sappy song.

 

[Wannano]

There is a particular brand of Protestantism that paints the Blessed Mother as an uneducated, just any girl. They believe that if Mary said “no” then Gabriel would have gone next door to Sofia and then on down the block til one young woman agreed. Those of us who have known that sort of teaching can hear it echo in that sappy song.

I don’t really think any of us know if she was educated or uneducated, poor or rich do we? Does her family status make any difference? She is special because she is the one God chose. I have never heard anyone ever say anything like Gabriel could just go shopping until he found someone.

I can understand that sometimes a song or story will remind us of something we don’t like. I have even met a total stranger who just reminds me of someone else and had trouble wanting to be around them because of my association with the other.

I can’t wrap my head around how the song indicates Jesus never talked to his mother for 30 years. I can actually see why Catholics may not like the song but so far that reason has not surfaced.

 

[Elf01]

I can’t wrap my head around how the song indicates Jesus never talked to his mother for 30 years.

Agreed. It refers to Jesus as a baby so I see it as set before he could talk. I do think that he would have told her some things about his mission.

 

[CampionTheChampion]

I’ve read through your answers, and I’m very appreciative. I can’t possibly respond to everyone here…you guys are too helpful sometimes. So instead of replying to each of you, I’m just going to thank you. Seriously, this forum is amazing.

I’ll make sure I log back on sooner next time I post before 50 replies show up.

 

[porthos11]

The complaint outlined in the opening post is what leads me to think that despite what they believe, Evangelicals are actually unable to worship God with latria objectively speaking, because they do not have the Eucharist, which is the summit of our worship. Our other acts of worship, such as the Sacraments and Divine Office spring from that, so prayers such as the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours is true worship and adoration. Without this, all Evangelicals can really offer God is hyperdulia, the level of veneration we give to the Blessed Mother.

As always, I refrain from passing judgment on their subjective disposition.

 

[CampionTheChampion]

I find that very interesting, and possibly disturbing. If that were true, Catholics can give to Mary what evangelicals give to God…that doesn’t seem right.

 

[porthos11]

Yep. In other words, (my thoughts/opinion only), is that Evangelicals fall short in giving God his due. They cannot give what they do not have. Or spun another way, they give to God only what is worthy “merely” of Mary, but they cannot give to God what is worthy of God. We give more to God than they can.

Only one Person’s worship is sufficient to glorify God: Christ’s. The only reason our worship/latria of God has any value is because we join our worship with the Eucharist, the Sacrifice of the Cross. Disconnected from the Eucharist, I don’t know how one can worship God in the fullness of spirit and truth.

This is not to say they are sinning or selfish. Only that they are incapable, and so they can only give so much, which, for me, falls short of true worship that gets its source and summit in the Eucharist.

Naturally, they think we’re “worshipping” Mary, when in fact, they are only merely “praising” God but not truly, objectively speaking, adoring him.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I was actually thinking about this, about Protestant worship and I mean no disrespect, but can there actually be worship, if there is no sacrifice? Does not worship, require sacrifice?

 

[porthos11]

That’s right, exactly my thoughts. Worship of the True God has always been sacrificial. For us Catholics we actually or virtually always revolve our acts of divine worship around the Eucharist as its source and end. Which is why the Mass is worship par excellence, Eucharistic Adoration is true worship because of the Real Presence, and the Sacraments, which derive their efficacy from the Cross and have the Eucharist as their object, are true acts of worship as well. The Liturgy of the Hours is a true Sacrifice of Praise, and is therefore true worship because it also springs as an extension of the Eucharistic celebration, a way of continuing the Prayer of Christ and his body the Church.

In other words, my line of thinking is that even outside of Mass, Catholic acts of divine worship always flow from and gravitate to the Eucharist and the Sacrifice.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

I have never seen it that way at all. It sounds more like the whispering of an angel into the ear of Mary soon after she delivered Jesus.

As I said, the words of the song suggest Jesus said NOTHING TO Mary for 30 yrs? God didn’t teach His own mother that whole time they were together? Even at 12 yrs old, Jesus was found preaching and teaching in the temple. He never taught His own mother?

It is ridiculous to say or think that. The words of the song do not say that to me but if they do for you then do with it want you want. I have no objection to songs that include Mary.

That’s not the point. It’s words of songs imposing negatives on her that I object to, in spite of her being the mother of God they make speculations dismissing she is the mother of God, and God left her in the dark on who she is, and who He is, and what she knew about that. It’s presuming God said nothing to her for over 30 years while they were together…

If the word “will” was “would” your interpretation would make sense. I am quite suprised you insist on beating the Protestantism out of this song in this way for I see something more in the words of the song that may concern you than the perceived tense.

I’m not thinking of tense.

The song’s questioning process suggests Mary’s ignorance on everything.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

I have never seen it that way at all. It sounds more like the whispering of an angel into the ear of Mary soon after she delivered Jesus.

As I said, the words of the song suggest Jesus said NOTHING TO Mary for 30 yrs? God didn’t teach His own mother that whole time they were together? Even at 12 yrs old, Jesus was found preaching and teaching in the temple. He never taught His own mother?

It is ridiculous to say or think that. The words of the song do not say that to me but if they do for you then do with it want you want. I have no objection to songs that include Mary.

That’s not the point. It’s words of songs imposing negatives on her that I object to, in spite of her being the mother of God they make speculations dismissing she is the mother of God, and God left her in the dark on who she is, and who He is, and what she knew about that. It’s presuming God said nothing to her for over 30 years while they were together…

If the word “will” was “would” your interpretation would make sense. I am quite suprised you insist on beating the Protestantism out of this song in this way for I see something more in the words of the song that may concern you than the perceived tense.

I’m not thinking of tense.

The song’s questioning process suggests Mary’s ignorance on everything.

If you are not thinking of tense then I cannot understand why you kept insisting that the song says Jesus never talked to his mother for 30 years. That puts it in the past tense for Mary. I agree that as a young virgin Mary knew and accepted that she was bearing the Messiah. She was informed about what that would mean and was also told a sword would pierce her heart. The Bible tells us she pondered all these things in her heart.

The song is simply telling a young Mary who now has the child in her arms some of the specific things he would do, based on what he did. . It seems harmless and I see nothing sinister in it.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Jewish people were taught the prophesies of the Messiah from their cradle. Mary knew them, when she said “YES” she knew the miracles, the significance, the song would make us think Mary was ignorant.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

I have never seen it that way at all. It sounds more like the whispering of an angel into the ear of Mary soon after she delivered Jesus.

As I said, the words of the song suggest Jesus said NOTHING TO Mary for 30 yrs? God didn’t teach His own mother that whole time they were together? Even at 12 yrs old, Jesus was found preaching and teaching in the temple. He never taught His own mother?

It is ridiculous to say or think that. The words of the song do not say that to me but if they do for you then do with it want you want. I have no objection to songs that include Mary.

That’s not the point. It’s words of songs imposing negatives on her that I object to, in spite of her being the mother of God they make speculations dismissing she is the mother of God, and God left her in the dark on who she is, and who He is, and what she knew about that. It’s presuming God said nothing to her for over 30 years while they were together…

If the word “will” was “would” your interpretation would make sense. I am quite suprised you insist on beating the Protestantism out of this song in this way for I see something more in the words of the song that may concern you than the perceived tense.

I’m not thinking of tense.

The song’s questioning process suggests Mary’s ignorance on everything.

If you are not thinking of tense then I cannot understand why you kept insisting that the song says Jesus never talked to his mother for 30 years. That puts it in the past tense for Mary.

The questions being asked, in the song, are cumulative. Past, present and future events and realities. It’s not either/or but all of it is being questioned by the words. The suggestion is, Mary is ignorant of all of it. She knows nothing. She is just a receptacle.

Wannano:

I agree that as a young virgin Mary knew and accepted that she was bearing the Messiah. She was informed about what that would mean and was also told a sword would pierce her heart. The Bible tells us she pondered all these things in her heart.

The song is simply telling a young Mary who now has the child in her arms some of the specific things he would do, based on what he did. . It seems harmless and I see nothing sinister in it.

To question her knowledge, as in the words of the song, is to deny Mary knew what she said yes to and continues to know into the future…IMV

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

I have never seen it that way at all. It sounds more like the whispering of an angel into the ear of Mary soon after she delivered Jesus.

As I said, the words of the song suggest Jesus said NOTHING TO Mary for 30 yrs? God didn’t teach His own mother that whole time they were together? Even at 12 yrs old, Jesus was found preaching and teaching in the temple. He never taught His own mother?

It is ridiculous to say or think that. The words of the song do not say that to me but if they do for you then do with it want you want. I have no objection to songs that include Mary.

That’s not the point. It’s words of songs imposing negatives on her that I object to, in spite of her being the mother of God they make speculations dismissing she is the mother of God, and God left her in the dark on who she is, and who He is, and what she knew about that. It’s presuming God said nothing to her for over 30 years while they were together…

If the word “will” was “would” your interpretation would make sense. I am quite suprised you insist on beating the Protestantism out of this song in this way for I see something more in the words of the song that may concern you than the perceived tense.

I’m not thinking of tense.

The song’s questioning process suggests Mary’s ignorance on everything.

If you are not thinking of tense then I cannot understand why you kept insisting that the song says Jesus never talked to his mother for 30 years. That puts it in the past tense for Mary.

The questions being asked, in the song, are cumulative. Past, present and future events and realities. It’s not either/or but all of it is being questioned by the words. The suggestion is, Mary is ignorant of all of it. She knows nothing. She is just a receptacle.

Wannano:

I agree that as a young virgin Mary knew and accepted that she was bearing the Messiah. She was informed about what that would mean and was also told a sword would pierce her heart. The Bible tells us she pondered all these things in her heart.

The song is simply telling a young Mary who now has the child in her arms some of the specific things he would do, based on what he did. . It seems harmless and I see nothing sinister in it.

To question her knowledge, as in the words of the song, is to deny Mary knew what she said yes to and continues to know into the future…IMV

I would suggest you just listen to an instrumental rendition only.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Or listen to the hundreds and hundreds of beautiful Christmas carols. Really, that pop drivel is not required!!

 

[PJM]

I need help explaining something to a friend. I honestly think she’s close to opening up to Catholicism a bit more, but the main thing blocking her consideration is fear of worshiping Mary.

The new thing she keeps harping on is that by singing hymns about Mary we are praising her in the same way we praise God, so it’s too easy to accidentally worship Mary. She also said she thought if she were catholic then she would be careful to never worship Mary, but would be worried that her future children might if they grew up with it (and never learned to be cautious like the Protestants).

Advice would really help.

Here’s the deal;

Protestant bias against Mary seems to be pretty much the NORM; this is because of a lack of right understanding on [1] what we actually believe & do [2] a more enlightened understanding of Mary.

Because SPACE id restricted here; I’ll be much briefer than I would like.

1 While it is accurate to say they we do pray “TO” Mary; it is far more correct to say that we pray “THROUGH” Mary; as ALL PRAYERS ARE INTENDED TO END WITH GOD

2 Let’s take a look at the most common Marian prayer; the Hail Mary

Hail Mary, [Lk. 1:28]
Full of Grace [Lk. 1:28]
The Lord is with thee [Lk 1:27]
Blessed are you among all women [Lk 1:42]
And Blessed in the fruit of your womb: Jesus [Lk. 1;42]
Holy Mary [Lk.1: 28]
Mother of God [Lk1:35]
Pray for us sinners [our catholic petition]
Now and at the hour of our death
Amen” [I BELIEVE!]

So this prayer is solidly Biblically grounded

Luke 1: 46-55 sheds more light on this issue

KEEP IN MIND BOTH TEACHINGS ARE UNDER THE INTIMATE INFLUENCE OF GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT

[46] And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. [47] And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. [48] Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. [49] Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. [50] And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him. [51] He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart. [52] He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble. [53] He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. [54] He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy: [55] As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever"

Now let’s jump ahead to Christ Passion
John 19: 26-28

PLEASE SEE THE NEXT POST FOR THE BALANCE

 

[PJM]

BALANCE OF ABOVE POST

jOHN 19:26-28

[26] When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple [JOHN] standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. [27] After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own. [28] Afterwards, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst.

Jesus mere moments from death; choose to endure excruciating PAIN, as to breath He HAD TO push UP on his NAILED feet; sending PAIN to every bit of His Body.

Jesus here is Giving humanity His Mother to be our adopted Mother: WHY?
Verse 28{ I THIRST!

THis was a ludicrous proclamation. OF COURSE He was thirsty after the scourging, carrying the cross up hill to Calvary; and hanging on the Cross for 3 hours. So Jesus was TEACHING HERE, not asking 4 a drink

WHAT was Jesus Thirsting for? He desired to do even MORE than ALL that He had already done for US!

So Christ One True Church & Faith

The Seven Sacraments validly & Licitly

& And OFFERING the world His Own MOTHER to be our Mother as Intercessor par-excellence

WHY?
Because no one knows Her Son better than His MOTHER & and No-ONe was better able to lead Souls to Him. PERIOD!

When WE pray THROUGH Mary She accepts our petitions; THEN adds Her own On TOP of ours, and Personally hands them to Jesus; with a “Jesus Please” making our prayers more efficacious. [effective]

I hope you find this useful

Pray very much
Patrick [PJM]

 

[De_Maria]

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

I have never seen it that way at all. It sounds more like the whispering of an angel into the ear of Mary soon after she delivered Jesus.

As I said, the words of the song suggest Jesus said NOTHING TO Mary for 30 yrs? God didn’t teach His own mother that whole time they were together? Even at 12 yrs old, Jesus was found preaching and teaching in the temple. He never taught His own mother?

It is ridiculous to say or think that. The words of the song do not say that to me but if they do for you then do with it want you want. I have no objection to songs that include Mary.

That’s not the point. It’s words of songs imposing negatives on her that I object to, in spite of her being the mother of God they make speculations dismissing she is the mother of God, and God left her in the dark on who she is, and who He is, and what she knew about that. It’s presuming God said nothing to her for over 30 years while they were together…

If the word “will” was “would” your interpretation would make sense. I am quite suprised you insist on beating the Protestantism out of this song in this way for I see something more in the words of the song that may concern you than the perceived tense.

I’m not thinking of tense.

The song’s questioning process suggests Mary’s ignorance on everything.

If you are not thinking of tense then I cannot understand why you kept insisting that the song says Jesus never talked to his mother for 30 years. That puts it in the past tense for Mary.

The questions being asked, in the song, are cumulative. Past, present and future events and realities. It’s not either/or but all of it is being questioned by the words. The suggestion is, Mary is ignorant of all of it. She knows nothing. She is just a receptacle.

Wannano:

I agree that as a young virgin Mary knew and accepted that she was bearing the Messiah. She was informed about what that would mean and was also told a sword would pierce her heart. The Bible tells us she pondered all these things in her heart.

The song is simply telling a young Mary who now has the child in her arms some of the specific things he would do, based on what he did. . It seems harmless and I see nothing sinister in it.

To question her knowledge, as in the words of the song, is to deny Mary knew what she said yes to and continues to know into the future…IMV

I would suggest you just listen to an instrumental rendition only.

How are you guys doing that? It looks cool though. Kind of like a hall of mirrors.

 

[Wannano]

**

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

steve-b:

Wannano:

I have never seen it that way at all. It sounds more like the whispering of an angel into the ear of Mary soon after she delivered Jesus.

As I said, the words of the song suggest Jesus said NOTHING TO Mary for 30 yrs? God didn’t teach His own mother that whole time they were together? Even at 12 yrs old, Jesus was found preaching and teaching in the temple. He never taught His own mother?

It is ridiculous to say or think that. The words of the song do not say that to me but if they do for you then do with it want you want. I have no objection to songs that include Mary.

That’s not the point. It’s words of songs imposing negatives on her that I object to, in spite of her being the mother of God they make speculations dismissing she is the mother of God, and God left her in the dark on who she is, and who He is, and what she knew about that. It’s presuming God said nothing to her for over 30 years while they were together…

If the word “will” was “would” your interpretation would make sense. I am quite suprised you insist on beating the Protestantism out of this song in this way for I see something more in the words of the song that may concern you than the perceived tense.

I’m not thinking of tense.

The song’s questioning process suggests Mary’s ignorance on everything.

If you are not thinking of tense then I cannot understand why you kept insisting that the song says Jesus never talked to his mother for 30 years. That puts it in the past tense for Mary.

The questions being asked, in the song, are cumulative. Past, present and future events and realities. It’s not either/or but all of it is being questioned by the words. The suggestion is, Mary is ignorant of all of it. She knows nothing. She is just a receptacle.

Wannano:

I agree that as a young virgin Mary knew and accepted that she was bearing the Messiah. She was informed about what that would mean and was

How are you guys doing that? It looks cool though. Kind of like a hall of mirrors.

All credit must go to Steve, I too thought it looks almost Christmassy.**