Protestant husband insists on getting a vasectomy against my wishes- can I get a legal separation?

[EasterJoy]

If her husband gets this vasectomy she has grounds for an annulment in the eyes of the Church. He would be the one that is considered to be committing the sin, not her. There is to be an openness to having more children when a couple is married and have sexual relations. I do believe that she would be able to refuse these relations is the future since the vasectomy would close that door. (The Church is opposed to birth control of this fashion.) So, how is she committing a mortal sin by asking about a legal separation?

Wrong. A decision to sin seriously within a valid marriage does not invalidate the marriage retroactively. That is just plain false. She would have a hard time proving he was not open to life on the day they married with the five children staring up at them as counter-evidence of his original intention. If the original intention speaks in favor of validity, that is what counts, not failures later in the marriage. Failures later in the marriage only count with regards to being evidence of an earlier attitude.

 

[Lorelei12]

To the first bolded, if he’s not thrilled about more he can certainly abstain either all the time or during fertile periods. there is no NEED for a vasectomy.

To the second bolded, what about what HE promised to ME? To have children and a family. To love honor cherish. I don’t think completely blocking me out of this life changing decision would fall under honoring and cherishing, do you?

I completely agree with you. Blocking you out of this decision is wrong, and he is not acting appropriately. I understand that you are very hurt by it, and rightfully so. There is no need for him to get a vasectomy, and he is wrong in doing so.

The thing is (and EasterJoy put this much better above), responding to his life-altering choice by making an even bigger one that impacts you, your husband, and your family in a myriad of negative ways isn’t going to make anything better and is in fact worse. Breaking up your family because you’re upset with your husband for going against your wishes is not going to give you any peace, either. What he is doing is a big deal and is hurtful, no one is trying to undermine that. But what you would do by separating would be far more impactful for your entire family.

 

[steph410]

But what you would do by separating would be far more impactful for your entire family.

its this point that I’m not sure I agree with right now. I don’t intent to remarry or anything like that, I just honestly don’t know how I could ever live in unity with him and raise the children with him after this.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I don’t know what kind of lies the devil, through our Godless culture, has been feeding you actually. It would be quite hard to save a marriage after he is blatantly disregarding me in this most elemental decision regarding our marriage, family and life together. that is simplistic thinking. If I am to stay in the marriage, it will be dark and sad and 100% his doing.

Steph, you joined here in July 2010 and your first posting was a payer request about this very topic. That was over 3 years ago. Have you and your husband reqcived any counselling during that time? Have you spoken to his pastor? Your priest? Attended any marriage counselling?

I can see how heartbroken you must be if this has been going on over 3 years. But you have also had at least one baby in that time. Were you and dh in agreement over having that child or was it an NFP “accident”? Perhaps additional training in the various forms of NFP would have helped.

However, that is in the past. Now you are dealing with this upcoming surgery. No matter what happens, you will be more at peace if you receive advice in person from your priest. If you don’t want to speak to him, call the diocesean office of marriage and family life and ask for advice.

 

[Country_Gal]

sigh The moderators need to come lock this thing. It is getting ridiculous

 

[steph410]

Steph, you joined here in July 2010 and your first posting was a payer request about this very topic. That was over 3 years ago. Have you and your husband reqcived any counselling during that time? Have you spoken to his pastor? Your priest? Attended any marriage counselling?

I can see how heartbroken you must be if this has been going on over 3 years. But you have also had at least one baby in that time. Were you and dh in agreement over having that child or was it an NFP “accident”? Perhaps additional training in the various forms of NFP would have helped.

However, that is in the past. Now you are dealing with this upcoming surgery. No matter what happens, you will be more at peace if you receive advice in person from your priest. If you don’t want to speak to him, call the diocesean office of marriage and family life and ask for advice.

I have talked to my priest, he was very laid back about it and did not offer any real help. I am trying to get us to see him this week, but my husband is adamant about the V so I don’t see the point really.
I can’t help but feel offended by the frequent questions here, though, that ask about my number of children and how it came about. Why are there so many of you that see children as a liability? why do you see it as the end of the world if you have another child with your spouse? I just can’t see why there is ANY negative to this, as long as you have a roof over your head, food, a good income. I guess I will never truly get it, although you all have a right to feel any way you want. I think children are amazing, especially when raised in the faith- you are building God’s kingdom!

 

[Mrs_Sally]

its this point that I’m not sure I agree with right now. I don’t intent to remarry or anything like that, I just honestly don’t know how I could ever live in unity with him and raise the children with him after this.

Even if you never remarry, breaking up your current marriage will be tragic for your children. Please look to role models we have among the Saints for how to best manage a bad marriage. There are examples more recent than St Rita and St Monica as well.

Here’s a quick list from the TAN book Secular Saints:

Difficult Husband: Bl. Anna Maria Taigi; Bl. Castoro Gabrielli; St. Catherine of Genoa; St. Dorthea of Montau; St. Fabiola; St. Hedwig, Queen of Poland; St. Margaret the Barefooted.

Husband had mistress: Bl. Paola Gambara-Costa

Husband married previously: St. Adelaide, St. Margaret of Scotland; St. Matilda.

Abused Physically or Verbally: Bl Castora Gabrielli; St. Fabiola; St. Godelieve; St. Mararet the Barefooted; St. Monica; St. Pharaildis; Bl. Zdislava Berka.

Jealous Husband: Bl Anna Maria Taigi; St. Elizabeth, Queen of Portugal; St. Hedwig, Queen of Poland.

Negected by Husband: St. Catherine of Genoa

Unfaithful Husband: St. Catherine of Genoa; St. Elizabeth of Portugal; St. Fabiola; St. Monica; Bl. Paola Gambara-Costa.

Marriages that were happy, but became unhappy: Bl. Albert of Bergamo; St. Louis IX, King of France

Marriages that were difficult or unhappy: Bl Anna Maria Taigi; Bl. Castoro Gabrielli; St. Edward the Confessor; St. Fabiola; St. Gengulphus; St. Godelieve; St. Gummarus; Bl. Louis Morbioli; St. Margaret the Barefooted; St. Monica; Bl. Novellone; St. Pharaildis; Bl. Zdislava Berka.

Couples Separated (amicably or otherwise); St. Edward the Confessor; St. Gengulphus; St. Gummarus; Bl Louis Morbioli; St. Nicholas of Flue; St. Philip Howard.

Unfaithful wife (saint who had) St. Gengulphus

Meddling wife St. Louis IX, King of France

Bad tempered or nagging wife: Bl. Alber of Bergamo; St. Gengulphus; St. Gummarus; Bl Novellone; St. Thomas More.

Marriages that were unhappy but became happy: St. Catherine of Genoa, St. Dorothea of Montau; Bl Paola GambaraCosta; St. Philip Howard; Bl. Raymond Lull.

 

[Lorelei12]

its this point that I’m not sure I agree with right now. I don’t intent to remarry or anything like that, I just honestly don’t know how I could ever live in unity with him and raise the children with him after this.

Honestly, I’m not sure how I’d feel about it either. I’d imagine it would be very hard to keep from being angry and try to keep up appearances for the kids. I think the feeling of wanting to take off sometimes when things get difficult is rather normal. It’s easy for all of us to tell you to stay, much harder to live with the sadness and disappointment. I also understand not wanting to be intimate. If your husband does this, it will be hard for you to handle, and it’s not realistic to think that it won’t impact your marriage and indirectly your family.

But you have an opportunity here to do the right thing, no matter what your husband is doing. Remember that you are raising children who will look to your marriage first as an example of a spousal relationship, and they’re likely to model it, healthy or not. So it’s your responsibility to make it the best you can, even if you’re putting in more effort or it seems one-sided. If you were to separate, aside from all the emotional and financial consequences for them, it will show them that it’s okay to walk out on your spouse when things get difficult. This is the type of thing that leads people to view marriage less seriously, and believe that marriage is only for better and not for worse. If you are concerned that a vasectomy is against church teaching, then also be equally, if not more concerned that breaking up your family is not okay either.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I have talked to my priest, he was very laid back about it and did not offer any real help. I am trying to get us to see him this week, but my husband is adamant about the V so I don’t see the point really.
I can’t help but feel offended by the frequent questions here, though, that ask about my number of children and how it came about. Why are there so many of you that see children as a liability? why do you see it as the end of the world if you have another child with your spouse? I just can’t see why there is ANY negative to this, as long as you have a roof over your head, food, a good income. I guess I will never truly get it, although you all have a right to feel any way you want. I think children are amazing, especially when raised in the faith- you are building God’s kingdom!

If you were in a loving, happy marriage - absolutely have as many children as possible. The problem is you have had problems in your marriage for at least three years where divorce and hatred have been mention…it’s bringing more children into this which is the problem.

 

[EasterJoy]

Honestly, I’m not sure how I’d feel about it either. I’d imagine it would be very hard to keep from being angry and try to keep up appearances for the kids. I think the feeling of wanting to take off sometimes when things get difficult is rather normal. It’s easy for all of us to tell you to stay, much harder to live with the sadness and disappointment. I also understand not wanting to be intimate. If your husband does this, it will be hard for you to handle, and it’s not realistic to think that it won’t impact your marriage and indirectly your family.

But you have an opportunity here to do the right thing, no matter what your husband is doing. Remember that you are raising children who will look to your marriage first as an example of a spousal relationship, and they’re likely to model it, healthy or not. So it’s your responsibility to make it the best you can, even if you’re putting in more effort or it seems one-sided. If you were to separate, aside from all the emotional and financial consequences for them, it will show them that it’s okay to walk out on your spouse when things get difficult. This is the type of thing that leads people to view marriage less seriously, and believe that marriage is only for better and not for worse. If you are concerned that a vasectomy is against church teaching, then also be equally, if not more concerned that breaking up your family is not okay either.

You do it one day at a time, and every time you see children suffering because their parents are divorced you thank Heaven for the grace to have done better. If we are commanded to love our enemies, surely we have to at least try to love our difficult spouses. Not just endure them, but really positively love them in spite of their stubborn clinging to sin, just as God loves us. It is the measure we measure with that will be measured back to us. In love and forgiveness, be generous. Defend the truth, but within that be generous until your heart feels it will break. That is what God does.

 

[EasterJoy]

You do it one day at a time, and every time you see children suffering because their parents are divorced you thank Heaven for the grace to have done better. If we are commanded to love our enemies, surely we have to at least try to love our difficult spouses. Not just endure them, but really positively love them in spite of their stubborn clinging to sin, just as God loves us. It is the measure we measure with that will be measured back to us. In love and forgiveness, be generous. Defend the truth, but within that be generous until your heart feels it will break. That is what God does.

Oh, and keep your eyes open, because the day will come when it will dawn on you that your spouse and family does the same thing for you. (None of us are the piece of cake to live with that we think we are.)

 

[steph410]

If you were in a loving, happy marriage - absolutely have as many children as possible. The problem is you have had problems in your marriage for at least three years where divorce and hatred have been mention…it’s bringing more children into this which is the problem.

You have absolutely no basis to be making these statements. random posts on the internet do not give you the information to know any of this. Please go back under the rock you crawled out of. thanks.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I have talked to my priest, he was very laid back about it and did not offer any real help. I am trying to get us to see him this week, but my husband is adamant about the V so I don’t see the point really.
I can’t help but feel offended by the frequent questions here, though, that ask about my number of children and how it came about. Why are there so many of you that see children as a liability? why do you see it as the end of the world if you have another child with your spouse? I just can’t see why there is ANY negative to this, as long as you have a roof over your head, food, a good income. I guess I will never truly get it, although you all have a right to feel any way you want. I think children are amazing, especially when raised in the faith- you are building God’s kingdom!

I agree that children are a gift from God. However, the Church also teaches that couples should use prudential judgement when making determinations about their family size. No one but you and your husband should decide for you how many children you might want and how closely they should be spaced.

Seeing as how you have expressed concern about the number of children you have/will have in the past, and your husband is obviously still concerned about the question, we are just suggesting ways to help you both resolve that question.

Now that your husband’s vasectomy is inevitable, we are hoping to help you cope with that decision and move forward *within *your married life and family with that new reality.

 

[Country_Gal]

How are you going to live after your separation? According to your past thread you have 5 children under 7 yrs old. How will you support them?

The legal system usually will not require alimony indefinately. Do you realize how hard it is to raise children alone? Also, judges sometimes grant custody to fathers if they appear to be more stable.

I have been a single mom for 16 years because of the death of my husband. I am a registered nurse with great job opportunities, received substantial help from social security. It has nevertheless been a difficult and lonely road.

 

[EasterJoy]

You have absolutely no basis to be making these statements. random posts on the internet do not give you the information to know any of this. Please go back under the rock you crawled out of. thanks.

You have said this, however:

… i have been married for 7 years. one option you don’t have on your list is interpersonal challenges between spouses- my husband and i are very different and continue to have issues in the way we operate. we are both stubborn and selfish more than we should be.

When it comes to forgiveness, go first. You will not regret it. Give up your own self-will to please God. You will not regret it. You can do this!! Really! It is hard, but that is how a crown is won. Do not think you will ever go without reward for efforts of love that only God can see you making. Persevere, pray for perseverance, and give thanks when the grace to persevere is given to you!

To forgive when you had cause to accuse is the imitation of Christ. You will be judged with that in your favor, if you take up the habit of mercy and forbearance. Who among us will not need that? So store up a treasury of mercy for yourself in Heaven. What temporal difficulty can compare with eternal reward, after all? Forbearance is how the saints are forged. Be open to forbearance!

 

[Truth_Faith13]

You have absolutely no basis to be making these statements. random posts on the internet do not give you the information to know any of this. Please go back under the rock you crawled out of. thanks.

Edit: you are not worth my anger…I’m better than that, I’ll offer it upto God instead.

 

[maryjk]

Please stop responding here. You don’t know me or my husband. thanks

No, we are not. How am I failing at my vocation as wife and mother exactly.? TROLL.

your first two statements are just purely beligerant. get a life.

you all have a warped view of the rights of men and women in Christ.

You have absolutely no basis to be making these statements. random posts on the internet do not give you the information to know any of this. Please go back under the rock you crawled out of. thanks.

You might want to reread some of your own statements before you accuse someone else of being a troll.

I have talked to my priest, he was very laid back about it and did not offer any real help. I am trying to get us to see him this week, but my husband is adamant about the V so I don’t see the point really.

The point is that you want to leave him over this issue. Don’t you think, since you plan on leaving your husband, your priest might be a good person to talk to about it?

I can’t help but feel offended by the frequent questions here, though, that ask about my number of children and how it came about. Why are there so many of you that see children as a liability? why do you see it as the end of the world if you have another child with your spouse? I just can’t see why there is ANY negative to this, as long as you have a roof over your head, food, a good income. I guess I will never truly get it, although you all have a right to feel any way you want. I think children are amazing, especially when raised in the faith- you are building God’s kingdom!

You sound remarkably like people that are part of the Quiverfull movement.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

You have absolutely no basis to be making these statements. random posts on the internet do not give you the information to know any of this. Please go back under the rock you crawled out of. thanks.

Your post in 2010 said the following -

my husband and i have been married for 6 years and have 3 going on 4 children. For various reasons i have become unhappy and dissatisfied with our marriage. i also have problems between me and his family. i feel trapped in a situation i just don’t like. i am a faithful catholic, but i honestly understand why people do pursue divorce. what are my choices? i am tired of trying to work things out. i am the only one who cares and puts in an effort. will i just have to suffer and be unhappy? what are we called to do as catholics? i’m just confused.

So you were unhappy then, had 3 children but have had a further 2 while presumably being in an unhappy marriage as your later post here suggest you hate both your husband and MIL and apparently you’ve had issues with your sister only speaking a few sentences to her in 2 years. Yet they are all the ones who are difficult to get on with I’m starting to see a pattern…

what do you do when you are a faithful Catholic but you pretty much hate your husband?
especially if you have lots of kids and don’t want to break up their family?

There are some days when I can put up with him, but most of the time he acts just like his mother (who I hate and is a mean spirited, vindictive and manipulative controlling person).

If I don’t do what he wants, he gives me ultimatums such as: “if you apologize to everyone in the family for getting mad about XYZ, then I will talk to you”

he will hang up on me or evade my phone calls all day long, if there is something we are having a conflict about. and he has done this for years, I don’t think I can take it anymore actually.

he is not a real man because he does not take good care of me as his wife. He is selfish and basically is focused on his hobby of long distance running and leaves me to fend for myself. I am essentially single, but “technically” still married to him. most of the time I feel like a single mom. and certainly as a person, I am not cherished, loved, or treated like I matter.

So I can understand why when you claim to him NFP has worked, you have continued to have more children in an unhappy marriage which might be the reason why he wants a vasectomy.

I find it interesting how other posters have also received your hateful replies when they have responded to your earlier threads…

 

[His_angel]

You have voiced your disapproval of your husband’s choice. He probably has good Protestant reasons for doing this- worried about finances, taking care of all the children. Even within Catholicism is it morally good to be prudent about the number of children you have. We are not called to as-many-as-possible.

Sterility doesn’t make a marriage any less real, or valid. And while purposeful sterilization is a grave matter, you have already said your thoughts to him. If he goes through with this, you are not culpable, and may certainly still be his wife in all that entails.

Going against your wishes is an issue, and one that should be worked on. But I do not think the appropriate reaction is to separate.

Does he know how strongly you feel about this? Does he know you may want to separate if he goes through with this? Part of the reason he is getting this vasectomy is mostly likely to be able to keep his family together. He’s worried about financial problems with more children, and likely wants to focus on the ones you have.

 

[steph410]

You seem like a real gem of a person. I will be thankful today at least that I don’t know you, am not related to you, and most of all am not married to you. It takes quite a person to come up with a post such as this.

Your post in 2010 said the following -

So you were unhappy then, had 3 children but have had a further 2 while presumably being in an unhappy marriage as your later post here suggest you hate both your husband and MIL and apparently you’ve had issues with your sister only speaking a few sentences to her in 2 years. Yet they are all the ones who are difficult to get on with I’m starting to see a pattern…

So I can understand why when you claim to him NFP has worked, you have continued to have more children in an unhappy marriage which might be the reason why he wants a vasectomy.

I find it interesting how other posters have also received your hateful replies when they have responded to your earlier threads…