Protestant hymns?

[Cat]

I’ve seen people use this term in their posts and I’m not sure what they are talking about.

Are we talking about lyrics or music written by Protestants, or about hymns that extol Protestant doctrines, or something else?

Please list some of the Protestant hymns that you hear used in the Mass that you attend and explain why you consider them “Protestant.”

Thank you.

 

[thistle]

I’ve seen people use this term in their posts and I’m not sure what they are talking about.

Are we talking about lyrics or music written by Protestants, or about hymns that extol Protestant doctrines, or something else?

Please list some of the Protestant hymns that you hear used in the Mass that you attend and explain why you consider them “Protestant.”

Thank you.

I think some people simply reject any hymn that is written by a Protestant even if there is nothing in the lyrics against Catholic doctrine.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I’ve seen people use this term in their posts and I’m not sure what they are talking about.

Are we talking about lyrics or music written by Protestants, or about hymns that extol Protestant doctrines, or something else?

Please list some of the Protestant hymns that you hear used in the Mass that you attend and explain why you consider them “Protestant.”

Thank you.

Some of them show a Protestant point of view such as a one-time conversion experience or once saved, always saved. Others are just not appropriate for use in liturgy although they may be beautiful. Some that I’ve heard used are Battle Hymn of the Republic, I Come to the Garden, and Amazing Grace.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I think every single Christian church should play amazing grace! protestant or not it is a beautiful song that shows how many people come to God. I call it my “theme song” for my conversion.

 

[consumedconvert]

I also love Amazing Grace.

The Catholic Church has appropriated many good customs from other religions, for instance, the date of Christmas, Christmas Trees, “Romanesque” architecture (only designed off of a Roman style, I know) and even the “Roman” priest’s collar (whch we got from the Anglicans).

There is nothing wrong with learning from other’s traditions or using their works so long as there is nothing harmful in the tradition or work.

The one hymn I find most ironic to sing in Catholic Church–I was entirely shocked the first time I heard it there–is “A Mighty Fortress is Our God”–written by none other than Martin Luther!!


Well, you have to say, he did have talent!

Nothing wrong with using Protestant-originated hymns.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I also love Amazing Grace.

The Catholic Church has appropriated many good customs from other religions, for instance, the date of Christmas, Christmas Trees, “Romanesque” architecture (only designed off of a Roman style, I know) and even the “Roman” priest’s collar (whch we got from the Anglicans).

There is nothing wrong with learning from other’s traditions or using their works so long as there is nothing harmful in the tradition or work.

The one hymn I find most ironic to sing in Catholic Church–I was entirely shocked the first time I heard it there–is “A Mighty Fortress is Our God”–written by none other than Martin Luther!!


Of course he also wrote Silent Night.

Well, you have to say, he did have talent!

Nothing wrong with using Protestant-originated hymns.

He didn’t write Silent Night.

 

[consumedconvert]

He didn’t write Silent Night.

Whoops, right you are, he wrote “Away in a Manger” according to some, although that apparently is under dispute. Sorry.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I think every single Christian church should play amazing grace! protestant or not it is a beautiful song that shows how many people come to God. I call it my “theme song” for my conversion.

I like Amazing Grace (especially when played on the bagpipes) but IMHO it doesn’t fit into the liturgy. Obviously, many don’t agree since it is sung at mass.

 

[MissSherri]

Has anyone really read the Battle Hymn of the Republic?

I am very Southern United States and it is a beautiful tune but the words offend me and often turn my stomach.

Slavery is rampant is this song. My Grandmother loved to play it on her pump organ. She was born in 1885 so you can guess where she came from.

I do like Amazing Grace. I was once lost but now am found.

Hear it with bagpipes. I want it at my funeral. And my husband’s.

Any good God type places in Scotland?

 

[consumedconvert]

Has anyone really read the Battle Hymn of the Republic?

I am very Southern United States and it is a beautiful tune but the words offend me and often turn my stomach.

Slavery is rampant is this song. My Grandmother loved to play it on her pump organ. She was born in 1885 so you can guess where she came from.

I do like Amazing Grace. I was once lost but now am found.

Hear it with bagpipes. I want it at my funeral. And my husband’s.

Any good God type places in Scotland?

There’s a Bagpipe Club of the KofC in New York. They play in St. Pat’s Parade.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**Has anyone really read the Battle Hymn of the Republic?

I am very Southern United States and it is a beautiful tune but the words offend me and often turn my stomach.**

**Did you know that the tune was originally a Southern camp-meeting hymn?

For that matter, “Dixie” was written by a Yankee. The “Dixie’s Land” in the original lyrics was a farm in northern Manhattan.**

 

[Phemie]

I like Amazing Grace (especially when played on the bagpipes)

Only if the piper is walking away.

 

[ethelzguy]

I think much of the opposition to assorted hymns is just more red herring for those who are stuck in 1962.

Pick a hymn, any hymn, that wasn’t in a Catholic hymnal in 1962 and the rogue traditionalists will proclaim that it is “bad” or “inferior” in some way.

Some will even argue with you whether or not a given song qualifies as a “hymn” !!

 

[SeekerJen]

Has anyone really read the Battle Hymn of the Republic?

I am very Southern United States and it is a beautiful tune but the words offend me and often turn my stomach.

Slavery is rampant is this song. My Grandmother loved to play it on her pump organ. She was born in 1885 so you can guess where she came from.

This Battle Hymn of the Republic? Where is slavery promoted? I’m not seeing it.

 

[Joe_5859]

I’ve seen people use this term in their posts and I’m not sure what they are talking about.

Are we talking about lyrics or music written by Protestants, or about hymns that extol Protestant doctrines, or something else?

Please list some of the Protestant hymns that you hear used in the Mass that you attend and explain why you consider them “Protestant.”

Thank you.

You’ll probably get a lot of different answers as I think different people use the term differently. It’s usually used to describe a song you don’t like.

I think sometimes it’s used to describe anything written by a non-Catholic (or even songs written by Catholics if they are less than 100 years old). Sometimes it’s used more specifically to describe those hyms that are highly questionable in regards to Catholic content. Of course, some of these were written by Catholics and many Protestants probably wouldn’t want to sing them either.

The one I always think of is “Sing a New Church”. Sing a new Church into being? Seriously? At best, that is sloppy ecclesiology. But, of course, that song was written by a Catholic nun, not a Protestant.

Of course, then there’s always the “Amazing Grace” debate. Some people interpret the whole “how precious did that grace appear the hour I first believed” as promoting a OSAS theology, which is why many call that a “Protestant hymn”.

 

[Wyatt]

A few months ago at Mass, we were singing a hymn and at the bottom of the page, I happened to notice it said it was written by John and Charles Wesley. I was pretty surprised by that, and I found it ironic because, prior to becoming Catholic, I was Wesleyan for a few years.

Whenever there are hymns written by Protestants, do they have to be approved by the Bishop or anything before they can be used in the Liturgy?

 

[brotherhrolf]

My cathedral choir was banned from singing Latin hymns from 1984 until 1992. We used the 1940 Episcopalin hymnal and all of the magnificent motets in English.

There are Protestant hymns which are not appropriate for us to sing. On the other hand, there are just as many Protestant hymns which are appropriate.

I love the Lorica (Breastplate ) of St. Patrick. Late 1800s Episcopalian hymn. So many of the Anglican motets are simply magnificent and perfectly acceptable for us to sing…in English!

My computer is an IBM and DW’s (which I’m currently on) is a MAC so I can’t cite. Their is any number of English composers wiith absolutely drop dead music which we could sing with NO theological problems.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I think sometimes it’s used to describe anything written by a non-Catholic (or even songs written by Catholics if they are less than 100 years old). Sometimes it’s used more specifically to describe those hyms that are highly questionable in regards to Catholic content. Of course, some of these were written by Catholics and many Protestants probably wouldn’t want to sing them either.

Too right! I was raised a Southern Baptist. The hymns we sang bear NO RESEMBLANCE WHATSOEVER to the pantheistic, “feel-good” dreck that passes for music in the Catholic Church these days. You might get some from the imploding main-line denominations (Episcopalian, United Church of Christ, some Methodists and Presbyterians) to sing this “affirming” stuff, but most evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants in this country would refuse in either horror or amusement to join in on “Sing a New Church” et al.

The music I grew up with was very Christocentric. Some MIGHT have vaguely IMPLIED OSAS, but it was never explicit. Consider “On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand.”

"My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus Blood and Righteousness.
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus’ Name.

On Christ the Solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand!
All other ground is sinking sand!"

The only thing that MIGHT be questionable is the vague notion that salvation is ONLY an imputation of Christ’s righteousness, but given that most hymns are poems, there should be a degree of poetic lisense that understands that the lyricist isn’t attempting to pack the whole of Christian doctrine into one hymn (if that’s our goal, then let’s set the Catechism to music and work our way through it in a three year cycle!). The song cited above doesn’t contravene in any way Catholic doctrine. The tune probably isn’t fit for Holy Communion, but it would make a fine processional, if the entrance antiphon isn’t used, an offeratory hymn, or a recessional. Songs that come out of the Evangelical tradition could easily be adapted for such purposes because what the hymns SAY is expessive of orthodox Christianity, even if the writers or the singers of a song might hold to other views that ARE at least materially heretical. I don’t recall a single song that said,“Once you’re saved, you’re always saved, hallelujah!” And the modern praise music generally used in Protestant services (and which I loathe) is mostly completely orthodox in terms of what it actually SAYS (again, the tunes and methods of playing those tunes make them questionable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, but generally the words do not). My point is this: our musical problems are our OWN. It was Catholics, in an effort at a relevance restricted to a specific decade and a half, that ruined their own music. “Canticle of the Sun,” (“come sing in the forest and dance in the fields!”), “City of God,” and the like were the work of CATHOLICS (and Marty Haugen, one lone Lutheran, and Lutherans today do not stand for nor are they representative of the overwhelming majority of Protestants throughout the world). Indict them for material heresy, but give them a walk on the charge that our current musical catastrophe is their gift to us. We did this on our own.

THIS is Protestant hymnody at it’s best (from the Evangelical/Fundamentalist branch):

“There is a fountain filled with Blood
Drawn from Emmanuel’s veins
And sinners plunged beneath that flood
Loose all their guilty stains!”

And

Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling for you and for me;
See, on the portals He’s waiting and watching,
Watching for you and for me.
Refrain
Come home, come home,
You who are weary, come home;
Earnestly, tenderly, Jesus is calling,
Calling, O sinner, come home!
Why should we tarry when Jesus is pleading,
Pleading for you and for me?
Why should we linger and heed not His mercies,
Mercies for you and for me?
Refrain
Time is now fleeting, the moments are passing,
Passing from you and from me;
Shadows are gathering, deathbeds are coming,
Coming for you and for me.
Refrain
O for the wonderful love He has promised,
Promised for you and for me!
Though we have sinned, He has mercy and pardon,
Pardon for you and for me.
Refrain

What Catholic doctrine does it deny? It seems to rather affirm the heart of the Gospel of which Holy Mother Church is the guardian.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Since I am one of the ones who “complain,” (i.e. criticize) contemporary Catholic musical culture, allow me to share a little taxonomy. This issue is dearer to me than perhaps any other. I’ve divided what we’ve called “Protestant Hymns” into four categories:

1. High Church Music. This is the music of the early reformers, Bach, Handel, Luther’s hymns, and others fall into this category. Though written by Protestants, this category has a musical richness that is edifying to God and to the Church. However, there is often the danger of theologically incorrect elements infiltrating the lyrics. Oftentimes though, it would take a theologian to sort through these pieces and adequately identify what is Non-Catholic about them, so there’s not really as big of a problem with using them.
2. Low Church Music. These are the “Spirituals” and other hymns of the low-Church protestants (Baptists, Methodists, etc). One good thing about these hymns is that they are unapologetic about salvation. One bad thing is that these hymns often encourage sins such as the sin of presumption (Amazing Grace, for example) or are centered not on God, but on Man’s encounter with God, thus they end up being “horizontal” in their approach. This form of hymn has a lot of emotional fervor that is not necessarily a bad thing. However, these hymns are very culturally “particularistic,” as we can see with the bluegrass hymns my grandmother played. They have a specifically Anglo-Saxon, often Southern-American quality that is often dumbed-down to the lowest common denominator in regards to taste.
3. Contemporary “Christian.” This music is drivel, and no self-respecting musician with any taste can accomodate it in the slightest. These songs are often merely pop songs reoriented towards God. They are dumbed down evern more than the hymns of the previous category, to the point that they are not really “hymns” at all. Furthermore, the human agent in the lyrics is often amplified to the point that rather than raising man to God, as is the case with the previous category, they actually raise man above God, in that the focal point lyrically is the action and benefits of the human agent (My Place in This World, by Michael W. Smith, is a perfect example of this).
4. The worst of all Christian music. The new “Catholic” hymns of the 1970’s. “On Eagles’ Wings,” etc. These wretched pieces are especially heinous in so many ways. Unlike the first two categories mentioned above, the composers of these hymns totally lack a decent sense of melody and chord structure. Furthermore, they often contain lame “ornamentations” such as piano slides that any real musician is going to laugh at and dismiss out of hand (one reason the piano should be replaced by the organ). Also, these hymns, more so than the worst Protestant hymns, emphasize horizontal worship, often focused on the “People of God,” instead of God himself, who requires praise. These hymns are based off adapting the “Spirit of Vat II” to the musical culture of the late 70’s and early 80’s, which, in terms of American popular music, is in my opinion the worst era in music history. Think Kenny Loggins singing about the Eucharist. To the contrary, these hymns are actually stuck in time. They are stuck in the “Yacht Rock” era. I don’t like Michael McDonald. I don’t like the hymns based off of Michael McDonald’s style. There you have it.

Our traditional hymns, well, they span centuries. They are timeless. They contain the best elements of all of these categories, yet lack the shortcomings. They edifying like the more high-church Protestant hymns, they are deeply personal and emotion like the low-church hymns, they are also as accessible as the last two genres, provided the individual actually wants to learn a little about sacred music, instead of demanding to be entertained.

 

[SeekerJen]

A few months ago at Mass, we were singing a hymn and at the bottom of the page, I happened to notice it said it was written by John and Charles Wesley. I was pretty surprised by that, and I found it ironic because, prior to becoming Catholic, I was Wesleyan for a few years.

Which one? “Love Divine, All Loves Excelling”? “Christ The Lord Is Risen Today”? “Hark! The Herald Angels Sing”?