Protestant Idolatry

[AmateurPianist]

The "word of God in Hebrews 4:12 has nothing to do with the Scriptures.

Oh by the way, I put Hebrews 4:12 Catholic into google and came across a video put forth by this web site.

So a Catholic source is teaching on Hebrews 4:12-13 and clearly relating this verse to the Bible. Hmmm.

I guess using the same criteria that you established in your OP, that this would be an example of Catholic idolatry.

 

[mm3861]

Catholics are always getting accused of idolatry with our devotions to the Blessed Virgin and the saints. However I was reading a book that belongs to my Protestant brother, and it elevated the Bible to the status of God. I understand that the Bible is God’s written Word, but the Bible does not “know what we need in our hearts” (It actually said that–I am NOT making this up!) That is idolatry, my friends! That author, at least, replaced God with a book! Very sad…

No sane person would interpret that as a pile of paper and binding being equal to God. But the scripture contained within the Bible is the very breath of God himself. Is that idolatrous? On the contrary.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.” (John 1:1-2)

 

[CWBetts]

Oh by the way, I put Hebrews 4:12 Catholic into google and came across a video put forth by this web site.

So a Catholic source is teaching on Hebrews 4:12-13 and clearly relating this verse to the Bible. Hmmm.

I guess using the same criteria that you established in your OP, that this would be an example of Catholic idolatry.

My source is well regarded Catholic Apologist. Furthermore, the presentation nowhere indicates that the term “word of God” refers only to the written word. not only taking the passage out of context, you take portions of a Catholic explanation out of context. I am seeing a pattern emerging.

 

[RedBert]

back to the OP

re:The Word of God

King David said, “The law of Your mouth is better to me Than thousands of coins of gold and silver” (Ps 119:72). He also said, “Therefore I love Your commandments More than gold, yes, than fine gold!” (Ps 119:127)

Is it ok for someone to love The Word of God more than gold?

Would loving the Bible more than the most precious things on earth be acceptable?

Is loving the Bible more than gold an acceptable perspective on the Bible , or would that be idolatry?

 

[crazzeto]

Is loving the Bible more than gold an acceptable perspective on the Bible , or would that be idolatry?

One shouldnt’ love gold to begin with, so as a catholic I would say no. One should love and respect the word of God, but only in so far as you don’t confuse the word of God with God…

IMHO, this exact issue is what got the Pharasise in so much trouble. Their “religion” became legalistic because “the bible” was their God. Because of this when the word was made flesh, and God spoke once again directly to us on earth, they refused to accept it. Nothing Jesus was saying “could be found in the bible”, so it must not be true.

I think that’s where you start putting your self in danger.

 

[CWBetts]

Is loving the Bible more than gold an acceptable perspective on the Bible , or would that be idolatry?

Nothing wrong with loving the Scriptures! I love the Scriptures. However the Bible is not a sentient being. The Bible does not “know” nor does it “teach” The Holy Spirit teaches through the Scriptures.

 

[RedBert]

One shouldnt’ love gold to begin with, so as a catholic I would say no.

consider the context: was David saying that we should not love gold OR that we should love the Bible MORE than the most valuble things on earth?

Nothing wrong with loving the Scriptures! I love the Scriptures. However the Bible is not a sentient being. The Bible does not “know” nor does it “teach” The Holy Spirit teaches through the Scriptures.

are you sure?

2 Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

 

[crazzeto]

consider the context: was David saying that we should not love gold OR that we should love the Bible MORE than the most valuble things on earth?

I think St. Paul can clear this up for us:

drbo.org/chapter/61006.htm

10 For the desire of money is the root of all evils; which some coveting have erred from the faith, and have entangled themselves in many sorrows.

or as translated by the NAB:
usccb.org/nab/bible/1timothy/1timothy6.htm

10
For the love of money is the root of all evils, and some people in their desire for it have strayed from the faith and have pierced themselves with many pains.

 

[RedBert]

I think St. Paul can clear this up for us:

I COMPLETLY agree that we should not love money.

David is using an example of the most valuable things he can think of, that is the context.

I LOVE the Bible more than gold or silver.
I LOVE to hold it , look at it, to open it, think about the Words in side.
Everyday
I like different Bibles for differnt occasions or uses
I give them away a gifts, I donate to missions to distribute them.
I teach adult Bible Study classes
I teach teenager bible Studies
When I preach, I have the open Bible in my hand.

I LOVE THE BIBLE!!!

I give thanks to God, the Author of the Bible, for the Gift of His life changing Word that points me to Christ.

I do not worship the Bible.

 

[crazzeto]

I COMPLETLY agree that we should not love money.

David is using an example of the most valuable things he can think off, that is the context.

I LOVE the Bible more than gold or silver.
I LOVE to hold it , look at it, to open it, think about the Words in side.
Everyday
I like different Bibles for differnt occasions or uses
I give them away a gifts, I donate to missions to distribute them.
I teach adult Bible Study classes
I teach teenager bible Studies
When I preach, I have the open Bible in my hand.

I LOVE THE BIBLE!!!

I give thanks to God, the Author of the Bible, for the Gift of His life changing Word that points me to Christ.

I do not worship the Bible.

Ok, but my comments weren’t necessarly (or have been) directed soly at David. They’re more general, my comments are supporting the idea that this can and I would arue does exist. I believe there are “good christians” out there, who would try to correct the word made flesh face to face with “but that’s not what the bible says”.

I’ll pick on my own faith for instance. For argument sake, lets say Mary wasn’t assumed into heaven. I happen to believe it, but that’s me. If Jesus told me face to face, it ain’t so and I were to try and argue the point, where am I?

Now let me pick on protistants, in fairness. Lets say you’re standing before Jesus and he says “No really, my mother really was a virgin her whole life. That propetual virgin stuff is all true. Go look at John 19”. Would you seriously look at Jesus, face to face and say “well but in matthew’s gosples your brothers are mentioned by name”.

If that’s what you do, are you not guilty of bible idolotry?

 

[RedBert]

I don’t think there are that many Bible loving protestants that argue a Biblical point with Jesus face to face.

But IF there were any (Protesatants or Catholics) like that, then they would be wrong.

 

[crazzeto]

I don’t think there are that many Bible loving protestants that argue a Biblical point with Jesus face to face.

But IF there were any (Protesatants or Catholics) like that, then they would be wrong.

I’m come across the occational believer in such danger. I think their hearts are sincier, so that is good… But unfortunetly the case seems to be that such people typically exist in a very small, comfortable space spiritually speaking. They have certain specific truths they cling to, and if you upset that their faith typically falls away (think seed planted on shallow soil).

I think what I describe is pretty much exactly what was going on with the Pharasies in the time of Christ.

 

[CWBetts]

consider the context: was David saying that we should not love gold OR that we should love the Bible MORE than the most valuble things on earth?

are you sure?

2 Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Stop pulling a random verse here and there out of context. The Scriptures are critical of pesuing wealth to the exclusion of all else. 2 Timothy describes the Scriptures as a tool, not a teacher.

 

[crazzeto]

Stop pulling a random verse here and there out of context. The Scriptures are critical of pesuing wealth to the exclusion of all else. 2 Timothy describes the Scriptures as a tool, not a teacher.

Yeah, there seems to be a disconnect in how Catholics and protistants read this verse.

Catholic
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Protistant
-]All/-] Scripture [alone] is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

There is a pretty clear difference once you see the visual aid.

Edit
Just to put an exclamation point on this, this is the verse that proceeds 16 (15 oddly enough)

drbo.org/chapter/62003.htm

And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Timothy didn’t know the new testament from infancy, I can prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt… Paul is currently writing the new testament at the point in time this letter is being written! Paul is talking about the old testament exclusivly.

So I guess what protistants are saying is that the Old Testament alone is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

 

[RedBert]

the CONTEXT of my post was in response to CWBetts

“The Bible does not “know” nor does it “teach” The Holy Spirit teaches through the Scriptures”

I offered the verse 2 Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is** useful for teaching**, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

so clearly from v 16 the Bible does teach , that was the only point being made.

I did NOT say " Scripture [alone] " is useful for teaching.

The next question is ; did the apostles know they were writing scripture?

 

[crazzeto]

the CONTEXT of my post was in response to CWBetts

“The Bible does not “know” nor does it “teach” The Holy Spirit teaches through the Scriptures”

I offered the verse 2 Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is** useful for teaching**, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

so clearly from v 16 the Bible does teach , that was the only point being made.

I did NOT say " Scripture [alone] " is useful for teaching.

The next question is ; did the apostles know they were writing scripture?

I beleive in 5 cases the answer is yes, in the specific cases of the “Gosples” inc Acts. That was an intentional effort to ensure a certain portion of the story of christ was perserved in writing, there was a need as the Apostles were aging and getting ready to suffer martyrdome and whatever else awaited them.

In the case of Revelation… I’m not sure, I guess my feelings are “yes”… At least “yes” John knew he was recording the revelation for good reason, he certainly had some letters to write in conjunction with it

In the cases of the rest of scripture (NT), no I dont’ think they had any idea, or any intention for their work to be attached to cannon. It was God’s will, that’s why it’s there.

 

[CWBetts]

the CONTEXT of my post was in response to CWBetts

“The Bible does not “know” nor does it “teach” The Holy Spirit teaches through the Scriptures”

I offered the verse 2 Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is** useful for teaching**, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

so clearly from v 16 the Bible does teach , that was the only point being made.

I did NOT say " Scripture [alone] " is useful for teaching.

The next question is ; did the apostles know they were writing scripture?

Yes “useful for teaching” not “a teacher”! There is scriptural evidence that a teacher separate from the Scriptures is needed:

*So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “How can I, unless some one guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. * (Acts 8:30-31, RSV-CE)
The Scriptures are a tool, but the Scriptures were not self-evident. A Teacher was required. So explain to me again how the Scriptures are the teacher, and not a tool to be utilized by a teacher.

 

[RedBert]

So explain to me again how the Scriptures are the teacher, and not a tool to be utilized by a teacher.

here is a stater:
Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey our **instruction **in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

but the point of this thread is weather Protestants who l love their Bible more than the finest gold have crossed into Bible idolatry.

I say no, and as an example , have you ever looked inside the study Bible of a Bible loving protestant? You’ll see underlines , side notes, highlights, and some sticky post-its.
Hardly looking like an idol at all.

 

[AmateurPianist]

My source is well regarded Catholic Apologist. Furthermore, the presentation nowhere indicates that the term “word of God” refers only to the written word. not only taking the passage out of context, you take portions of a Catholic explanation out of context. I am seeing a pattern emerging.

You were the one that said the subject passage Hebrews 4;12 can not be the written Word of God.

I cited a passage where the Catholic source cites the Bible in reference to Word of God in Hebrews 4:12.

Nobody is claiming that the term “word of God” refers to the written word only. Not me or the Catholic source.

But again, you were the one claiming that Hebrews 4;12 can not be the written Word of God.

I am seeing a pattern emerging.

 

[CWBetts]

here is a stater:
Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey our **instruction **in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

but the point of this thread is weather Protestants who l love their Bible more than the finest gold have crossed into Bible idolatry.

I say no, and as an example , have you ever looked inside the study Bible of a Bible loving protestant? You’ll see underlines , side notes, highlights, and some sticky post-its.
Hardly looking like an idol at all.

How do you know the point of the thread? I STARTED IT. THe point is the thread is the fact, yes FACT, that many (not all) Protestants imbue the Scriptures with anthropomorphic qualities and treat the Bible as a 4th part of the Trinity.