protestant idols?

[Oldtimer_7]

There are so many good views on this topic, it is hard to know where to start. There are indeed people who make an idol out of the Bible: both KJV-onlyists and also DRC-onlyists. There are also people who do worship statues and other symbols of our faith. I just witnessed the near-disintregation of the church where my wife and I married because a number of members became followers of their “pastor” rather than Jesus.

The passage of removing the mote from one’s own eye comes to mind. It can be profitable to actually LISTEN to Catholic criticisms of Protestantism and ALSO vice versa. None of us is perfect in the practice of our faith, so any view from the outside can be valuable, if it is rooted in agape love. Concerns of Catholic writers about antinomianism during the Reformation were in fact quite valid. Witness the English Ranters. The sight of worshipers beating themselves bloody or impaling themselves demeans the faith, whether it is Filipino Catholics or Shia Muslims. The same is true of Protestant snake handlers and poison drinkers.

 

[PatrickSanDiego]

Two things on this subject:

1. About those Born Again Christian bookstores, what gets me is how casually they take the image of the cross. They have cross flower pots, cross cartoon ceramics, crosses with little angels attached, all these cross figurines that, to me, look insincere.
2. I was reading a book today, it said, “Augustine of Hippo, also known as Saint Augustine of Hippo.” As a matter of fact, it listed all the saints without “St.” or “Saint” before their names and just said they were from the “early church”.

It was starting to look like an excellent Bible guide, I guess not anymore, Got to get a new one.

 

[Stilldreamn]

Catholics have pictures or statues of Jesus and other significant figures in our religious life- not to worship, but as a gentle reminder of that person or event…
Even Luther never made an accusation of ‘idol worship’ against the Catholic Church…

We are physical beings and therefore must express things in a physical way, especially worship. Statues and pictures are merely part of that.

True, true and true! I had an interesting experience, truly an eye-opening one some years ago when I traveled with my Mom to her hometown and we attended her very old, historically German Lutheran church in Wisconsin. St. Paul’s is just lovely, and I looked forward to seeing the interior as I’m a big fan of historical preservation, especially churches.

Imagine my shock when I saw statue after statue- Jesus, the apostles, and yes, Mary - an incredibly ornate alter - WHAT IS ALL THIS??? It looked so…Catholic! The service itself was achingly traditional and meaningful. This marked the beginning of a doctrinal journey that is far from over.

I had tried for many years to make my Lutheran faith fit in the Protestant box, but it fits far better into an annex of Catholicism. Some branches really did not fall that far from the tree whether we wish to acknowledge it or not.

 

[ricofall]

True, true and true! I had an interesting experience, truly an eye-opening one some years ago when I traveled with my Mom to her hometown and we attended her very old, historically German Lutheran church in Wisconsin. St. Paul’s is just lovely, and I looked forward to seeing the interior as I’m a big fan of historical preservation, especially churches.

Imagine my shock when I saw statue after statue- Jesus, the apostles, and yes, Mary - an incredibly ornate alter - WHAT IS ALL THIS??? It looked so…Catholic! The service itself was achingly traditional and meaningful. This marked the beginning of a doctrinal journey that is far from over.

I had tried for many years to make my Lutheran faith fit in the Protestant box, but it fits far better into an annex of Catholicism. Some branches really did not fall that far from the tree whether we wish to acknowledge it or not.

What you say rings true. I pray you find the truth.

 

[Jessup]

Two things on this subject:

1. About those Born Again Christian bookstores, what gets me is how casually they take the image of the cross. They have cross flower pots, cross cartoon ceramics, crosses with little angels attached, all these cross figurines that, to me, look insincere.
2. I was reading a book today, it said, “Augustine of Hippo, also known as Saint Augustine of Hippo.” As a matter of fact, it listed all the saints without “St.” or “Saint” before their names and just said they were from the “early church”.

It was starting to look like an excellent Bible guide, I guess not anymore, Got to get a new one.

Oh the worst of all is cross chocolate candies during Easter. Its no wonder that Atheist
can’t stand Christianity based on money schemes. What exactly does Christian family store do anyway? Are they a ministry or what? I don’t think that Christ main intention on the cross was for marketing schemes. Many of those products there are very expensive. I have noticed they sell rosaries but I would suspect that the majority of the customers are probably the stereo typical Calvary Chapel Evangelical type.
As much as I’m not a fan now that I’m older, the 80’s
band The Dead Kennedys had a picture in one of their albums of crucifix made of 100 dollar bills with Christ on it. I think that pretty much says it all.

 

[rinnie]

Oh the worst of all is cross chocolate candies during Easter. Its no wonder that Atheist
can’t stand Christianity based on money schemes. What exactly does Christian family store do anyway? Are they a ministry or what? I don’t think that Christ main intention on the cross was for marketing schemes. Many of those products there are very expensive. I have noticed they sell rosaries but I would suspect that the majority of the customers are probably the stereo typical Calvary Chapel Evangelical type.
As much as I’m not a fan now that I’m older, the 80’s
band The Dead Kennedys had a picture in one of their albums of crucifix made of 100 dollar bills with Christ on it. I think that pretty much says it all.

The chocolate cross or candy does not bother me. I think that for us growing up as Catholic’s that was just a reminder of Christ and his goodenss. I do not see any disrespect in any way.

But now the picture of the Crucifix made in 100 dollars bills, not that I have a big problem with.

To me, that is very disrespectful. Wonder what the reason for that was?

 

[57Bill]

I believe we all have idols of some type or another. The seven deadly sins seem to have a lot of idolatry concepts.

I don’t equate false worship with idolatry but I think it is similar.

 

[Stilldreamn]

This will be an odd tale coming from a Lutheran - but when I was around 5 years old I became extremely ill with pneumonia. The antibiotics available simply weren’t working fast enough and after admission to a Catholic hospital nearby, my fever actually hit 106. It was feared I would have brain damage (debatable whether that happened!), supposing I survived at all. I remember none of this, except for opening my eyes and seeing a nursing sister looking down and talking to me. She had pressed a small statue of the Virgin Mary into my hands - and I’m sure she must have been praying for me. My parents were so distraught that Mom allowed this because she felt that everything else had been done, it couldn’t hurt.

After I recovered, I kept that little statue with me constantly. I knew nothing about praying to anyone except Jesus, but I had Catholic friends that explained that yes of course Mary can be prayed to. I was the most devoted Lutheran Marianist, ever. No doubt my attachment to the statue crossed the line into superstition but my prayers were completely sincere. She will always be the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of God to me.

 

[pablope]

This will be an odd tale coming from a Lutheran - but when I was around 5 years old I became extremely ill with pneumonia. The antibiotics available
She had pressed a small statue of the Virgin Mary into my hands - and I’m sure she must have been praying for me. My parents were so distraught that Mom allowed this because she felt that everything else had been done, it couldn’t hurt.

After I recovered, I kept that little statue with me constantly. I knew nothing about praying to anyone except Jesus, but I had Catholic friends that explained that yes of course Mary can be prayed to. I was the most devoted Lutheran Marianist, ever. No doubt my attachment to the statue crossed the line into superstition but my prayers were completely sincere. She will always be the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of God to me.

What a nice story.

In this documentary about the true story behind the movie The Exorcist…in the final exorcism when the demon is expelled, someone innocently puts a statue of Michael the Archangel in the room where the exorcism is being done…anyway…here is part 4…youtube.com/watch?v=LZ-0lPNIBC4

 

[TimothyH]

This will be an odd tale coming from a Lutheran - but when I was around 5 years old I became extremely ill with pneumonia. The antibiotics available simply weren’t working fast enough and after admission to a Catholic hospital nearby, my fever actually hit 106. It was feared I would have brain damage (debatable whether that happened!), supposing I survived at all. I remember none of this, except for opening my eyes and seeing a nursing sister looking down and talking to me. She had pressed a small statue of the Virgin Mary into my hands - and I’m sure she must have been praying for me. My parents were so distraught that Mom allowed this because she felt that everything else had been done, it couldn’t hurt.

After I recovered, I kept that little statue with me constantly. I knew nothing about praying to anyone except Jesus, but I had Catholic friends that explained that yes of course Mary can be prayed to. I was the most devoted Lutheran Marianist, ever. No doubt my attachment to the statue crossed the line into superstition but my prayers were completely sincere. She will always be the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of God to me.

Your attachment to the statue was a child’s expression of love for our Mother which has matured to a more correct understanding.

Thank you for posting this.

-Tim-

 

[rinnie]

I believe we all have idols of some type or another. The seven deadly sins seem to have a lot of idolatry concepts.

I don’t equate false worship with idolatry but I think it is similar.

I agree, what is also so sad is how kids follow People like movie stars etc and think that they are so special.

Sad because they always fall and let them down. When the only person they should have is Jesus Christ who should be who we all adore and imitate.

It goes to show how lost many are in this world. Many people in my family unfortunately have the idol of money. Its all they think about. It makes me so sad, to see them have so much and want so much more.

I never pray for my kids to get money, not anymore, I pray for them to have the Grace of God to get them through life, and to trust in him completely. Don’t get me wrong there is nothing wrong with money, we all work hard to get it, to make our life easier and help others. That is a great thing.

But there comes a difference when it turns into emptyness. When it is all people live for and think about. Its so sad. When you see people have so much and be so sad, and mean, and they don’t even see it.

But I believe Money, and Power and Fame if the biggest Idol out there today.

 

[PatrickSanDiego]

Your attachment to the statue was a child’s expression of love for our Mother which has matured to a more correct understanding.

Thank you for posting this.

-Tim-

When I was about five years to about eleven years old, I had a small statue of a youthful Jesus by my bed. I always had to have that statue facing me near my bed. I knew it was just a statue, but it told me Jesus is with me even when I’m sleeping. …Anyway, your post reminded me.

 

[PatrickSanDiego]

True, true and true! I had an interesting experience, truly an eye-opening one some years ago when I traveled with my Mom to her hometown and we attended her very old, historically German Lutheran church in Wisconsin. St. Paul’s is just lovely, and I looked forward to seeing the interior as I’m a big fan of historical preservation, especially churches.

Imagine my shock when I saw statue after statue- Jesus, the apostles, and yes, Mary - an incredibly ornate alter - WHAT IS ALL THIS??? It looked so…Catholic! The service itself was achingly traditional and meaningful. This marked the beginning of a doctrinal journey that is far from over.

I had tried for many years to make my Lutheran faith fit in the Protestant box, but it fits far better into an annex of Catholicism. Some branches really did not fall that far from the tree whether we wish to acknowledge it or not.

Not anything opposed to your post, but I know there must be several statues of Martin Luther in and around Germany, I would like to speak to the townspeople, saying, “Why the statue of Luther guys? Isn’t the Scripture enough for you? Seems you like to honor your past significant people as well…”

Patrick

 

[Roy5]

Beware of generalizing about Protestants.

Most of the Protestants I know are 'mainline' - that is, they belong to the more established denominations like Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, UCC, etc. These are not fundamentalists. They focus considerable attention on the Bible, but they are certainly less literalistic than evangelicals or than many Catholics. They would not, for example, believe in Adam and Eve, Noah and the Ark, and the Tower of Babel as autentic history. They would have trouble with many of the miracles attributed to Moses, Elijah, Elisha, and various others. Was Joshua really able to have the sun stand still so that he could slaughter more of the enemy? No way. They also have trouble with certain things in the New Testament - e. g., Paul telling slaves to obey their masters or women to keep silent in the church. 

 The problem is with literalists and dogmatists, whether of the Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish etc  There are plenty of these - yes, many here on CAF. They dominate evangelical Protestantism. They are ready to believe the unbelievable. 

  Fine. Freedom of religion and all that. I do become upset, however, when Christians are sure that their particular version of Christianity is the one and only valid one. And that goes for Catholics as well as Protestants.

  Most Protestants are much less into sacraments and sacramentals. Except for an Episcopal or Lutheran Church here and there. they never have a statue of a saint, taking seriously their version of the commandment (in the Ten) against images. In this respect Catholics are more like Hindus with all their statues and Protestants tend to be more like Jews or Muslims. 

  In mainline Protestant Bible students participants have enormous freedom. Varying interpretations of perplexing passages may be expressed. There is no sense that there is but one way to believe and that is our way!

 Frankly, I don't give a hoot. The truth of any religion is - like some trees - the fruit it bears. If it produces kind, compassionate, tolerant people with generally healthy minds - God bless 'em. If it produces bigoted and intolerant people either those folks are not practicing their faith correctly or that faith is distorted.  

 Let us strive together to make religion a bridge and not a barrier. God bless those of every creed, color, culture and country. Let's cast off the arrogant opinion that our church alone has the full truth and all the rest are inferior when it comes to matters of belief.

 

[JonNC]

Not anything opposed to your post, but I know there must be several statues of Martin Luther in and around Germany, I would like to speak to the townspeople, saying, “Why the statue of Luther guys? Isn’t the Scripture enough for you? Seems you like to honor your past significant people as well…”

Patrick

Well, of course we do. One has to remember that Lutherans were opposed to iconoclasm in the 16th century, and we accept the 7th council, which opposed iconoclasm in the early Church.

Six years ago, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and while the procedure I went through has been successful, I have kept a picture of St. Peregrine with me since my diagnosis, not because I pray to him, but because he prays for us, and his life is an example for me.

Jon

 

[Stilldreamn]

Not anything opposed to your post, but I know there must be several statues of Martin Luther in and around Germany, I would like to speak to the townspeople, saying, “Why the statue of Luther guys? Isn’t the Scripture enough for you? Seems you like to honor your past significant people as well…”

Patrick

Not only statues; here’s some stained glass windows that could very well be inside churches.

Stained_glass_windows_of_Martin_Luther

As a Lutheran, I’m pretty fond of him; but somehow, I think he would be shocked at the huge variation of doctrines that have become attached to his name.

 

[JonNC]

Not only statues; here’s some stained glass windows that could very well be inside churches.

Stained_glass_windows_of_Martin_Luther

As a Lutheran, I’m pretty fond of him; but somehow, I think he would be shocked at the huge variation of doctrines that have become attached to his name.

I also think he would be disappointed with the protestant-ness of American Lutherans.

Jon

 

[PatrickSanDiego]

Not only statues; here’s some stained glass windows that could very well be inside churches.

Stained_glass_windows_of_Martin_Luther

As a Lutheran, I’m pretty fond of him; but somehow, I think he would be shocked at the huge variation of doctrines that have become attached to his name.

It would be hugely interesting to hear what he would have to say. There were very healthy elements to the Reformation. History could have worked out so much for the better, but the English took it and ran. I honestly don’t believe that Martin Luther wanted to split the Church. The name “Reformation” says it all. He wanted things corrected in a very troubled time. It would have been called something else had he truly wanted that end result. See, that’s what happens when governments start engineering beliefs, assigning archbishops, killing their wives, etc…

Patrick

 

[JonNC]

It would be hugely interesting to hear what he would have to say. There were very healthy elements to the Reformation. History could have worked out so much for the better, but the English took it and ran. I honestly don’t believe that Martin Luther wanted to split the Church. The name “Reformation” says it all. He wanted things corrected in a very troubled time. It would have been called something else had he truly wanted that end result. See, that’s what happens when governments start engineering beliefs, assigning archbishops, killing their wives, etc…

Patrick

I hope you don’t mind my response. In general, I believe you have a good assessment, except I wouldn’t throw the Anglicans under the bus. Suffice it to say that there was plenty of blame to go around - Lutherans, Catholics, Anglicans, Calvinists, all of us.

 

[bogeydogg]

Actually Luther didn’t mind the icons and stopped those who sought to smash the icons and the images of the saints in the stained glass windows. As far worshiping Luther, I certainly don’t, and having been raised in the LDS group it makes my skin crawl when Biblical exegesis begins with “Luther said…” I prefer Augustine and Thomas myself although to be fair the Bible is usually plain enough. ← That btw is why so many people are leaving mainline protestantism and its compromises and coming to Churches that actually confess the Scripture as TRUTH. All of it.

Aside from that to accuse Catholics of idolatry because of icons is slander as the Church has never taught the practice of worshipping icons. As far as how far did Lutherans fall from the Catholic tree. I would say not very far since my reformed friends cannot bring themselves to join either a LCMS Church or an eldona Church because they just can’t let go of TULIP even though they readily admit the Gospel as it is being taught in the Lutheran Church (which is startlingly similar to RCC in many ways) is right. And Reformed folks accuse Catholics of idolatry?

I pray the rosary, so does my sister. We both find it to be of great help and focus in our prayers.

Neither of us worships Mary.

I will never wear a Jesus Fashionable shirt because the Christian Faith is not worn on the outside but in the heart, and even if you have on the shirt your words and deeds may still make you unclean because washing the outside of the cup is not enough.

As our Lord so clearly taught.

God Bless