protestant idols?

[JustaServant]

Everytime I see this thread I think of American Idol.

Are we taking auditions?

 

[christosdavid]

Atheists take this same approach christosdavid. In other words, “Why become a Christian, just look at the behavior of Christians?!” The evangelical’s response is, “Don’t look at me, look to Jesus!”

So if you want to know what the Church teaches, read the Bible. If you still have questions, read the Catechism.

Here is a nice article on the issue of praying to saints, with a supporting article on intercessory prayer located here, and an article on relics located here.

only the evangelical? I’m sure the “abuses” of the catholic church have prompted just as many (historically probably more) theodicies that have plagued athiests…

 

[PatrickSanDiego]

I agree with the catechism on relics. Yet to the uniformed Catholic and a vast majority outside of Catholic faith view these as superstitious, morbid, magical, idol worship. Seeing Pope Benedict XVI with Pope John Paul II’s blood is a wonderful expression of the Holy Spirit’s infusion into John Paul II’s mortal being and his immortal soul while alive. That’s how I perceived it. How many had a pagan perspective viewing on TV or even in Vatican Square? Does it matter?

Here’s what all this reminds me of:

• A person that lives in a new, prefabricated condo, asking a person that lives in a victorian mansion, “Why do you have all these wood carvings on your bannister? Why do you have wood carvings on you fireplace mantle? Why do you have facet breakfast nook windows and a portal window on the attic? My house does not see the need for these things. My house has three plain rooms, no designs, and I don’t understand you.”

Answer: It’s tradition. My house is old and built with much care and tradition. These things you call extra, aren’t crucial to help keep me warm and dry, but they are part of a long tradition, that you do not have.

• A person that lives off oatmeal, rice, and protein powder, asking a person that enjoys a rich and varied diet, "Why do you season your food? That does nothing for your nutrition. Why do you eat fish, pork, chicken, and beef? Just drink protien powder. My family doesn’t believe in seasoning food, it serves no purpose.

Answer: It comes from two thousand years of food preparation. We love it! doesn’t it taste great? It adds to our love of good food. It’s not totally necessary in curbing hunger, but why impose limits on your culture if they only add to it?

• a person from another country that asks, "Why do you have people that commit murder and theft in your country? Don’t you realize this is wrong? Despite you saying you have laws against it, and punish this behavior, a great many people still hurt people, steal from stores and workplaces. So, despite what you are saying about your laws, I believe otherwise.

Answer: Look at our civil code. Look at our laws. You know good and well we don’t back that behavior. Some will do it, and they may face repercussions, and every time I ask, it seems your generalities are wrong. Not everyone is stealing, or hurting people. You just read the news of your choice, and pass your judgement on that. In your heart, you better start asking yourself some serious questions, becuase your generalizing nears on hateful propaganda.

• A person that has reduced Jesus down to a name written on paper asking, "Why do you have these statues of Jesus everywhere? Why all these statues of all these people? Does that help you follow the Word better? Does it add anything to what is already written?

Answer: When you truly contemplate Jesus, you want that person to be as real as possible. Despite the Protestant claim that Catholic clergy wanted to keep Catholic Faithful ignorant, that is undeniably wrong. The Imagery you see was an educational tool before the use of the print and press, before large segments of the population were literate. Stained glass windows tell stories, show the saints of old so Fathful could understand struggles of those that came before them. The Rightious that paved the way. It puts personality, familiarity, and face to a name on paper hundreds or thousands of years old. We have them now, not because it’s central doctrine, but because all peoples enjoy revering their past. Don’t let anyone steal your past. We have statues of George Washington, why not just be happy with the Constitution? Because the statue of Washington gives us closer reminder to the man, his beliefs, his true personality and spirit.

To generalize, when you know fully well the Catholic Doctrine (or you should keep quiet if you don’t), and pass judgement on others with this self-generalizations, is getting pretty far from Jesus, pretty far.

Catholics have a two mellinia old Church, we do things that honor people that lived 500, 700, 1200, 1800 years ago. If you don’t know who these people are, then you will never understand. That’s apparent. Just like the person that walks into the old victorian mansion and doesn’t understand, design, culture, era, beauty, expression.

If an action brings one closer to God and His chosen, then that’s what we do. The Gospel tells about the Holy Spirit, souls, and afterlife. If you refuse us to ask saints to …ahem…PRAY FOR US, then you are turning your back on the whole concept of souls in Heaven. Everything is possible with God, so who are you to limit what we say to the Divine? Read the Bible.

I see some similarities between Islam and these Born Again Fellowship “Non-Denominational” Christians (…aka Protestant denomination). They both really dislike the fact that we relish images of Jesus, Mary, and the Saints, even the Popes. They want to strip us of culture and history. They are both jealous of our deep faith, our ability to justify all we do, and our unity under The Vatican.

Catholics are right and true in their Faith, that’s why we have prevailed, prevail, and will prevail. Because it’s truth. Protestant and Muslim, don’t you understand you are fighting the Truth? That’s why you have to fight so hard, because it’s tough and futile fighting the truth. You may win a skirmish here or there against a poorly Catachised Catholic, you may blow up a Church or two, you may put new jumbotrons in your church, get a new Christian rock band on the charts, but in the end…

…We are right.

 

[CaptCrunch73]

Here’s what all this reminds me of:

Catholics are right and true in their Faith, that’s why we have prevailed, prevail, and will prevail. Because it’s truth. Protestant and Muslim, don’t you understand you are fighting the Truth? That’s why you have to fight so hard, because it’s tough and futile fighting the truth. You may win a skirmish here or there against a poorly Catachised Catholic, you may blow up a Church or two, you put new jumbotrons in your church, get a new Christian rock band on the charts, but in the end…

…We are right.

:clapping:

 

[stewstew03]

only the evangelical? I’m sure the “abuses” of the catholic church have prompted just as many (historically probably more) theodicies that have plagued athiests…

Tu quoque? Ad hominem?

The point isn’t that protestants are guilty of more or less theodicies. The point is that one cannot look to Ted Haggard and then confidently proclaim that all evangelical protestants are homosexual meth addicts.

Of course, what people like Ted Haggard and other non-denominational pastors teach in their communities is a lot more mysterious than what the Church teaches.

As I said before:

if you want to know what the Church teaches, read the Bible

. If you still have questions, read the Catechism.

Here is a nice article on the issue of praying to saints, with a supporting article on intercessory prayer located here, and an article on relics located here.

 

[JonNC]

=PatrickSanDiego;9094480]You know, if personal reading and interpretation of sola scriptura is the purest form, why even have potlucks? …I mean…Protestant churches?

Indicative of a complete lack of understanding of what sola scriptura is and means.

btw: I think the jumbotrons are their idols. lol.

We don’t have one.

I’m getting snappy, I need to go say a few Hail Marys and Saint Michaels,

Perhaps.

forgive me.

Done.

Jon

 

[karaleigh]

And imagine all those Jehovah’s Witnesses going door to door handing out rosaries.

-Tim-

JW’s do have a type of chain w/ropes amulet that they sometimes give to people doing their door-to-door ministries, but they take it back before they leave or when they are finished talking to you. Why they hand the chain to a person is unknown by me.

I went through many years of witnessing them at my door. By the time I had all that I could say and hear back something from them, I could no longer tolerate the way in which they phrased their sentences or the way they select biblical terms. I felt a Saving Grace when it was all over.

 

[nickybr38]

You make some good points OP.

Honestly when I was Protestant I refused to wear such things… in fact, my mother, devout Protestant Christian, REFUSED to even have Jesus pictures in her home.

I mean, can we be consistent at least? If you’re going to hate on the idol worship maybe you need to reconsider the image you’re presenting to the world by wearing your Jesus t-shirts, Jesus wrist bands and other merchandise.

But to be fair, not all Protestants wear and/or put up such things in their home.

 

[JonNC]

You make some good points OP.

Honestly when I was Protestant I refused to wear such things… in fact, my mother, devout Protestant Christian, REFUSED to even have Jesus pictures in her home.

I mean, can we be consistent at least? If you’re going to hate on the idol worship maybe you need to reconsider the image you’re presenting to the world by wearing your Jesus t-shirts, Jesus wrist bands and other merchandise.

But to be fair, not all Protestants wear and/or put up such things in their home.

True. Some of us wear crucifixes.
Jon

 

[Anna_Scott]

Indicative of a complete lack of understanding of what sola scriptura is and means.

We don’t have one.

Perhaps.

Done.

Jon

Jon,
I love the way you are so “concise and precise” in some of your posts, as demonstrated above.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Stilldreamn]

True. Some of us wear crucifixes.
Jon

Some of us have them on our altars - you can’t see it from this old pic of our church, but we have an exquisite silver crucifix that was given to our congregation long ago.

Oh, and please ignore our big “idol” in the center



Jon, this begs the question - are Lutherans “Protestant” in the modern sense?

 

[nickybr38]

Some of us have them on our altars - you can’t see it from this old pic of our church, but we have an exquisite silver crucifix that was given to our congregation long ago.

Oh, and please ignore our big “idol” in the center

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s402/delta_dame/interior1930.jpg

Jon, this begs the question - are Lutherans “Protestant” in the modern sense?

What is the modern sense of Protestant?

I think Lutherans are my favorite non-Catholic denomination. Just sayin’.

 

[Stilldreamn]

What is the modern sense of Protestant?

I think Lutherans are my favorite non-Catholic denomination. Just sayin’.

I think over the past 500 years, Confessional Lutherans and Catholics have moved closer together, maybe not quite kissing (in a brotherly/sisterly way!) but surely holding hands a bit. At the same time, “mainline” and liberal protestant churches have moved farther away from both (women being ordained, etc)

The Evangelical and Reformed positions on the efficacy of Baptism and Holy Communion are deal-breakers for me. I understand the RCC position on the validity of the Lutheran Eucharist but you would find the ordinary Lutheran aghast at the idea that the Real Presence was merely symbolic.

“Protestant” seems more and more used synonymously with Fundamentalist and Evangelical at least in the media - and also gets attached to the very most liberal churches whose doctrines have only a nodding aquaintance with original doctrines (ELCA). It’s so broad it’s nearly useless.

 

[nickybr38]

I think over the past 500 years, Confessional Lutherans and Catholics have moved closer together, maybe not quite kissing (in a brotherly/sisterly way!) but surely holding hands a bit. At the same time, “mainline” and liberal protestant churches have moved farther away from both (women being ordained, etc)

The Evangelical and Reformed positions on the efficacy of Baptism and Holy Communion are deal-breakers for me. I understand the RCC position on the validity of the Lutheran Eucharist but you would find the ordinary Lutheran aghast at the idea that the Real Presence was merely symbolic.

“Protestant” seems more and more used synonymously with Fundamentalist and Evangelical at least in the media - and also gets attached to the very most liberal churches whose doctrines have only a nodding aquaintance with original doctrines (ELCA). It’s so broad it’s nearly useless.

Thanks for the explanation.

I use the blanket term Protestant to refer to any non-Catholic Christian denomination (and I don’t mean it in a derogatory way, it’s just a distinction that falls back to the beginning of the Reformation). But I have noticed that some people do not include Anglican, Episcopal or Lutheran in the ‘Protestant’ heading.

I also know several Lutheran’s who very strongly do not consider themselves Protestant at all.

Now I understand there are different flavors of Lutheran but do you believe in the Real Presence? My mother is a new Lutheran and she SWEARS that her church believes in the Real Presence but I’ve done my own studies and it would seem that the idea of Real Presence is different in the Catholic Church then in the Lutheran Church.

Also, please feel free to private message me if you’d like. I understand I’m taking this discussion WAY off topic. I’m just really curious.

 

[JonNC]

=Stilldreamn;9099131]Some of us have them on our altars - you can’t see it from this old pic of our church, but we have an exquisite silver crucifix that was given to our congregation long ago.

We have this very large crucifix which hangs above the altar.

Oh, and please ignore our big “idol” in the center

No can do.

Jon, this begs the question - are Lutherans “Protestant” in the modern sense?

Certainly some are, or think of themselves that way. I think my profile kind of says how I feel. Evangelical (in the Lutheran sense) Catholic. I’ve often said here that I would be Catholic before any protestant communion.

Jon