Protestant interpretations...

[teak421]

I agree that the Faith was being taught before the NT Scriptures were completed, but the point of the apostles’ efforts in committing everything to writing was in order to preserve the teaching for future generations.

Can you please point me to scripture that agree with your statement above? If you can not, you are violating sola scriptura.

• Michael

 

[rinnie]

Ha, ha.
You haven’t proved it. It’s speculation. As a matter-of-fact, I have shown you evidence the native tongue spoken by Jesus and his Apostles was Hebrew, not Aramaic:

Ginger

I don’t think so ging. In hebrew it means God depart from. I will stick with the truth. Mat 27 45-46

What Jesus was crying out was a Prayer to God which is followed in the psalm by an expression of joyful confidence in final victory!

Can’t see Jesus saying God depart from me. Just can’t see him saying that ging!

 

[teak421]

We’re not talking theology on the point of literacy. This is a matter of historical record.

The Catholic argument is being supported by the belief the masses were iliterate. Your argument falls apart if people could indeed read.

Or are you suggesting Jerome was totally unaware 99% of the population couldn’t read?

Show me one document from the first few centuries that specifically talks about having to read the Scriptures to the masses because they are illiterate and can’t read it for themselves.

The point I am making is you can’t prove your claims using misinformation and false claims. Try another approach, such as the masses didn’t have access to Scriptures and that is why they couldn’t read them, but had to depend on Church Fathers to orally tell them what it said.

Of course that argument falls short as well…

Ginger, You have yet to answer my question #243 either because you are not capable or you just want to ignore it because it makes you uncomfortable.

• Michael

 

[Jason_1977]

Uh!? Ginger, the Bible was not officially canonized until about 60 years later. As I’ve stated, we have copies (one just was posted on the internet) that had Shepard of Hermes and other books in it. Can you tell me for sure what the Canon of scripture was when the Creed was created.

When you say stuff like “You’re so wrong…” is that an argument? or an an homien (sp?) attack?

• Michael

LOL, why aren’t you at your post? LMAO??? ~~~regards, Jason

 

[Ginger2]

I don’t think so ging. In hebrew it means God depart from. I will stick with the truth. Mat 27 45-46

What Jesus was crying out was a Prayer to God which is followed in the psalm by an expression of joyful confidence in final victory!

Can’t see Jesus saying God depart from me. Just can’t see him saying that ging!

lol

I thought we were talking about whether Hebrew or Aramaic was Jesus’ native tongue. Did you really not understand or were you just trying to wiggle your way out of a tight situation?

BTW, the “e”, and “r” on your key board don’t seem to be working properly, rin

Sometimes people are so funny.

 

[Jason_1977]

lol

I thought we were talking about whether Hebrew or Aramaic was Jesus’ native tongue. Did you really not understand or were you just trying to wiggle your way out of a tight situation?

BTW, the “e”, and “r” on your key board don’t seem to be working properly, rin

Sometimes people are so funny.

The answer is both. He was a Jew.

 

[Jason_1977]

My goodness someone is really in need of a hug. When I say trinity, I mean, GOD the father, GOD the son & GOD the holy spirit. Maybe I should’ve just said GOD. (we are adults here right? It’s like talking to a teenager in here!) Trinity means 3. Also called Blessed Trinity, Holy Trinity. the union of three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) in one Godhead, or the threefold personality of the one Divine Being.
2. a representation of this in art.
3. Trinity Sunday.
4. (lowercase) a group of three; triad.
5. (lowercase) the state of being threefold or triple.

There’s your definition of trinity. It’s not the NATURE, it’s the UNION. Don’t lecture me on the obvious, seriously. Obviously you’re not catholic & your understanding of catholicism is pretty dim because church teachings are BASED ON SCRIPTURE. If it isn’t scripture, it’s tradition. What you don’t know about catholicism is a lot I think. I know precisely what the bible is, (why on earth would you presume I wouldn’t understand this? Do you just wake up wanting to spew nonsense? You’re stating pretty much the obvious to someone who already believes. In short, you’re wasting your time by talking but not saying anything. Also Scripture, sacraments and teachings are used by man, not God. Why would God go to confession or get baptized? My advice is to take a college course of some sort, or maybe talk to a priest, but you’re going to learn nothing here when your mind is already convinced it knows already what it needs to know. I"m going to pray for you.

Respectfully,

Jason

Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the malice and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.​

wow, this post went by untouched. amazing.

 

[Ginger2]

For anyone who believes in Sola Scriptura:

Sola Scriptura requires that all doctrine, EVERYTHING concerning the Christine faith comes directly from the Bible. Someone, please explain where the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is in the Bible. What verses actually say that the Bible is the ONLY source of our Christain faith…

Sola Scriptura is Bible ONLY. If there is nothing in the Bible that directly says this, the doctrine falls flat and should be rejected.

Can anyone please put forward an argument for Sola Scriptura based on the Bible only…

Thanks in advance!

• Michael

Everything concerning the Christian faith comes directly from God. In fact, everything comes from God - period.

Sola Scriptura (another invention of the Catholic church which Protestants have adopted to fit the Holy Scriptures) is not a declaration of “all knowledge is contained in the scriptures and nowhere else” or “that God is found in the Bible and nowhere else”

This so-called Protestant doctrine was supposedly invented by Luther.

Let’s look at Luther’s own words and see if Catholics are correct or if they have been misled by past leaders who wanted to discredit Luther at all costs - even to the point of making false accusations:

Luther: “Your Imperial Majesty and Your Lordships demand a simple answer. Here it is, plain and unvarnished. Unless I am convicted [convinced] of error by the testimony of Scripture or…by manifest reasoning, I stand convicted [convinced] by the Scriptures to which I have appealed, and my conscience is taken captive by God’s word, I cannot and will not recant anything, for to act against our conscience is neither safe for us, nor open to us. On this I take my stand. I can do no other. God help me.”

Ginger

 

[Jason_1977]

Everything concerning the Christian faith comes directly from God. In fact, everything comes from God - period.

Sola Scriptura (another invention of the Catholic church which Protestants have adopted to fit the Holy Scriptures) is not a declaration of “all knowledge is contained in the scriptures and nowhere else” or “that God is found in the Bible and nowhere else”

This so-called Protestant doctrine was supposedly invented by Luther.

Let’s look at Luther’s own words and see if Catholics are correct or if they have been misled by past leaders who wanted to discredit Luther at all costs - even to the point of making false accusations:

Luther: “Your Imperial Majesty and Your Lordships demand a simple answer. Here it is, plain and unvarnished. Unless I am convicted [convinced] of error by the testimony of Scripture or…by manifest reasoning, I stand convicted [convinced] by the Scriptures to which I have appealed, and my conscience is taken captive by God’s word, I cannot and will not recant anything, for to act against our conscience is neither safe for us, nor open to us. On this I take my stand. I can do no other. God help me.”

Ginger

Sola Scriptura (another invention of the Catholic church which Protestants have adopted to fit the Holy Scriptures) is not a declaration of “all knowledge is contained in the scriptures and nowhere else” or “that God is found in the Bible and nowhere else”

If it was true that sola scriptura was an invention of the RCC, then what are the fundamentalists screaming about when they say all they need is the bible? Did they get on the phone & talk to the pope? Honestly. You sound a bit ridiculous when you lash out. Stick to being productive & objective. You may convince someone you’re intelligent.

Also, Luther had a huge problem with the book of James. He didnt like the idea of works. Maybe he didnt have enough time off, who knows, but this is for certain, if he had his way, the book of james & a few others would be in an appendix at the back of the bible. Funny, TITUS contains the same message James has on faith & works. In fact, those who were saved in an instant pretty much love the idea of faith alone. It would put a damper on their singular moment. Just food for thought.

 

[rinnie]

lol

I thought we were talking about whether Hebrew or Aramaic was Jesus’ native tongue. Did you really not understand or were you just trying to wiggle your way out of a tight situation?

BTW, the “e”, and “r” on your key board don’t seem to be working properly, rin

Sometimes people are so funny.

No I told you that when Jesus was at the foot of the Cross and he called out to God it was in Aramaic. Jesus spoke in both. I also told you Peter in Aramaic meant rock. Again you said I have no proof. My proof was because he also spoke Aramaic at the foot of the cross when he quoted psalm. He knew John would understand him because John also knew Aramaic Tradition.

You seem to deny much of the Catholic faith when evidence is in the bible.

The church was built on Peter when he called him the rock, which you deny. We also know the Jesus gave the Church to Peter to guard because he gave him the keys.

Now that is my proof now it is up to you to prove me wrong.

The word for huge rock in Aramaic is Kephas. the aramaic word for little stone is evna and Jesus never called Peter that. That don’t even sound a bit alike. Now again there is my proof now its time for your proof?

 

[Jason_1977]

You’re wasting your time arguing w. this one. She’s here just to argue.

 

[peary]

Originally Posted by Ginger2
The oldest canon of the Jewish OT I can find is 2 Esdras (Vg:4 Esdras):

It claims 24 OT books (Vulgate & Peshitta)

Somebody’s full of peshitta, and it ain’t me!!

 

[Ginger2]

No I told you that when Jesus was at the foot of the Cross and he called out to God it was in Aramaic. Jesus spoke in both. …

Now that is my proof now it is up to you to prove me wrong.

Once again, for the third time, here is the proof:

The NT records the event on the cross in both Aramaic and Hebrew. The question is which is accurate to the words Jesus actually spoke.

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The best why to discern is to read it in context. In this case we can learn from what the eyewitnesses say:

Those who heard Jesus speak responded, Mark 15:35 “Some of those who stood by, when they heard that, said, ‘Look, He is calling for Elijah!’”
In Hebrew Eli can be either “My God” or an abbreviation for “Elijah”. In Aramaic Eloi distinctly means “My God.” Since the listeners thought Jesus was calling for Elijah, it can only mean Jesus was speaking in Hebrew.

You are obviously wrong.

 

[Jason_1977]

wow, this post went by untouched. amazing.

My goodness someone is really in need of a hug. When I say trinity, I mean, GOD the father, GOD the son & GOD the holy spirit. Maybe I should’ve just said GOD. (we are adults here right? It’s like talking to a teenager in here!) Trinity means 3. Also called Blessed Trinity, Holy Trinity. the union of three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) in one Godhead, or the threefold personality of the one Divine Being.
2. a representation of this in art.
3. Trinity Sunday.
4. (lowercase) a group of three; triad.
5. (lowercase) the state of being threefold or triple.

There’s your definition of trinity. It’s not the NATURE, it’s the UNION. Don’t lecture me on the obvious, seriously. Obviously you’re not catholic & your understanding of catholicism is pretty dim because church teachings are BASED ON SCRIPTURE. If it isn’t scripture, it’s tradition. What you don’t know about catholicism is a lot I think. I know precisely what the bible is, (why on earth would you presume I wouldn’t understand this? Do you just wake up wanting to spew nonsense? You’re stating pretty much the obvious to someone who already believes. In short, you’re wasting your time by talking but not saying anything. Also Scripture, sacraments and teachings are used by man, not God. Why would God go to confession or get baptized? My advice is to take a college course of some sort, or maybe talk to a priest, but you’re going to learn nothing here when your mind is already convinced it knows already what it needs to know. I"m going to pray for you.

Respectfully,

Jason

…still untouched…isn’ t that amazing how Ginger likes to hear agreement, but I get no such pleasure? I’m sorry, I get no such courtesy? Interesting.

 

[Jason_1977]

Once again, for the third time, here is the proof:

The NT records the event on the cross in both Aramaic and Hebrew. The question is which is accurate to the words Jesus actually spoke.

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The best why to discern is to read it in context. In this case we can learn from what the eyewitnesses say:

Those who heard Jesus speak responded, Mark 15:35 “Some of those who stood by, when they heard that, said, ‘Look, He is calling for Elijah!’”
In Hebrew Eli can be either “My God” or an abbreviation for “Elijah”. In Aramaic Eloi distinctly means “My God.” Since the listeners thought Jesus was calling for Elijah, it can only mean Jesus was speaking in Hebrew.

You are obviously wrong.

Could it be possible that a hebrew translation of text would have it say one, & an aramaic text would say the other in the other? 2 gospels means 2 points of view or 2 perspectives of the same events. Is that a possibility?

 

[Jason_1977]

I mean, 2 different people heard him say the same thing. Did Jesus say it twice? I dont think so.

 

[Ginger2]

Could it be possible that a hebrew translation of text would have it say one, & an aramaic text would say the other in the other? 2 gospels means 2 points of view or 2 perspectives of the same events. Is that a possibility?

No, since both versions, Mark and Matthew, report the same response from those present.

Also, Matthew was a disciple - an eye witness who spent nearly all his time with Jesus. Matthew reports Jesus spoke Hebrew.

In contrast, it is uncertain who Mark is. He is said to have been a companion of Paul or a disciple of Peter. It is also said that he was dependent on “oral tradition” to write his gospel - meaning he was not an eye witness.

Ginger

 

[teak421]

Everything concerning the Christian faith comes directly from God. In fact, everything comes from God - period.

Sola Scriptura (another invention of the Catholic church which Protestants have adopted to fit the Holy Scriptures) is not a declaration of “all knowledge is contained in the scriptures and nowhere else” or “that God is found in the Bible and nowhere else”

This so-called Protestant doctrine was supposedly invented by Luther.

Let’s look at Luther’s own words and see if Catholics are correct or if they have been misled by past leaders who wanted to discredit Luther at all costs - even to the point of making false accusations:

Luther: “Your Imperial Majesty and Your Lordships demand a simple answer. Here it is, plain and unvarnished. Unless I am convicted [convinced] of error by the testimony of Scripture or…by manifest reasoning, I stand convicted [convinced] by the Scriptures to which I have appealed, and my conscience is taken captive by God’s word, I cannot and will not recant anything, for to act against our conscience is neither safe for us, nor open to us. On this I take my stand. I can do no other. God help me.”

Ginger

How do you determined which Doctrine to call your own?

• Michael

 

[Jason_1977]

No, since both versions, Mark and Matthew, report the same response from those present.

Also, Matthew was a disciple - an eye witness who spent nearly all his time with Jesus. Matthew reports Jesus spoke Hebrew.

In contrast, it is uncertain who Mark is. He is said to have been a companion of Paul or a disciple of Peter. It is also said that he was dependent on “oral tradition” to write his gospel - meaning he was not an eye witness.

Ginger

well MARK is the oldest of the 4 gospels, I tend to think this one was written in aramaic I matthew has the hebrew version. Mark gets some flack for being too blunt, & has a speedy climax as far as leading to the crucifiction, (MARK was written in aramaic, just looked it up) I’m trying to figure out what the argument being made on this topic is?

 

[Ginger2]

well MARK is the oldest of the 4 gospels, I tend to think this one was written in aramaic I matthew has the hebrew version. Mark gets some flack for being too blunt, & has a speedy climax as far as leading to the crucifiction, (MARK was written in aramaic, just looked it up) I’m trying to figure out what the argument being made on this topic is?

That’s funny… my Catholic Bible says, "It is historically certain that St. Mark wrote the second Gospel, that he wrote it in Rome sometime before the year 60 A.D., that he wrote it in Greek for the gentile convert to Christianity.

Ginger