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JohnnyBeth
Guest
You could start by elimiating a billion or so off the top, then proceed forward to Ask, Seek & Knock ASK
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
You may have it backwards by affirming the Roman Catholic Church is head and rule over the church of God on earth, which is in essence usurping the authority of the Trinity, which is impossible in reality. What part about adding to Scripture does God approve? The immaculate conception of Mary, the papacy, the co-medatrix of Mary, levitical-self-styled priesthood, praying to saints that ain’t, Peterine Primacy, or a confessional booth? Which did He approve and how do you know?
You don’t even know the basics of what the church is; if you did you would stick to the Biblical definition wouldn’t you?
On what basis do you believe God knows you?
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
I will lead you or you can start a thread on the topic. I would start by looking at the saints that were removed from the Catholic calendar in the 1960’s. I would also look at how long they were on the calendar. Then I would begin to look at the stories behind the ones removed and see what their principal “protection” was, then look at the greek and roman gods and look for similar matches.
The I would ask myself, how did they get there in the first place? I would ask wht they have not had their sainthood declared annulled? What would be the implication of declaring them annulled? I would also want to know why my church is making profit off of these products? If you send me a PM or start another thread; I will send you a very clear example of this.
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rinnie
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Excuse me. ITs called Tradition remember Tradition. IT was never ADDED! Everything about Mary and praying to the Saints. Peter the Pope. Confession your sins was all believed and Practice by the Apostles. That is why its called Apostlic Teaching.
THe bible tells you itself plain and clear all is not written. We have been through this, showed you the scripture and everything.
The Church was here long before the bible, The teaching’s of the Church are not all written in the Bible. Never were! What part of Tradition again do you not understand?
Show me one verse where it is stated all is WRITTEN. You cannot. But can I show you a verse thats say’s all is not written? Of course. Can and already did. Its all through this thread!
And how can The Church which is the HOLY SPIRIT surpass itself?
You have no idea what the RCC believes and teaches, and you have proved that point quite well. But please do not argue something when you have no Clue what you are even arguing about.
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
Are you declaring I am a tare? Unity in faith has not been revealed has it? What does the Bible teach on that? Do you know? You have a false sense of unity because you believe it can be seen, but the true unity of faith, the true church of God, also known as the Bride of Christ has yet to be revealed; or have you seen it? You have set your eyes on the carnal and not the spiritual; yet believing you are part of that unity of faith…how is that?
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tmac1956
Guest
And who had the authority to put those NT scriptures into the canon that we all use? The Catholic Church! It is somewhat hypocritical to, on the one hand, accept the canon of scripture set forth by the Catholic Church and then deny its authority in other matters on the other hand.
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tmac1956
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There is also a Two Egg Florida not far from where I’m located.
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
Where does the Bible say that all the teachings of Jesus and the apsostles are not written in Scripture? There is a verse that say if all the things Jesus DID, key word “DID” were written that all the books in the world could not contain them and I am sure that is true since Jesus virtually banished all disease from Palestine. Attention to detail is most important; every jot and tiddle as Jesus put it.Excuse me. ITs called Tradition remember Tradition. IT was never ADDED! ***Everything about Mary and praying to the Saints. Peter the Pope. Confession your sins was all believed and Practice by the Apostles. *** That is why its called Apostlic Teaching.
THe bible tells you itself plain and clear all is not written. We have been through this, showed you the scripture and everything.
The Church was here long before the bible, The teaching’s of the Church are not all written in the Bible. Never were! What part of Tradition again do you not understand?
Show me one verse where it is stated all is WRITTEN. You cannot. But can I show you a verse thats say’s all is not written? Of course. Can and already did. Its all through this thread!
And how can The Church which is the HOLY SPIRIT surpass itself?
You have no idea what the RCC believes and teaches, and you have proved that point quite well. But please do not argue something when you have no Clue what you are even arguing about.
Can you show the traditions Paul spoke of that are not contained in the Biblical record? The traditions already existed as we can clearly see by looking at the “details”; which are very important in discerning the Bible.
Where is the Church defined as the Holy Spirit in Scripture; another blooper on your part.
Concerning the bold highlight above; none of it was practiced by the apostles, the disciples, the writers nor the Christ. Just because you say it is so; doesn’t make it so. You will only find one source of written truth on the pages of the Protestant Bible and you want find anything that remotely resembles what you just rambled off your tongue.
It says a lot about your spiritual condition as I see it.
And He also spoke a parable to them: "A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit? “A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.”
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rinnie
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What do you do? like skip chapters you don’t understand. tear the page out? What?
Its like not worth even trying to show you something because you know it all! But I will try one last time. but in my heart I know its useless.
SS is not the ONLY AUTHORITY for our faith. Scripture tells us THe CHURCH, THE CHURCH, THE CHURCH was founded by JESUS CHRIST To keep the LIVING TRADITION ALIVE.
Did you skip PENTECOST. You know when God poured out the HS upon the Apostles. And because of that great gift THE HS dwells in the Church. IT because of the Church the Church that we can read the scripture with more confidence and umderstand it.
Here is the 3 thing’S Catholic’s know and believe about the bible. And you seem to miss!
The inspired word of God comes to us through SS.
The living words of God comes EQUALLY through the living Tradition of the Church
The infallible word of God is transmitted by scripture and Tradition has been intrusted solely to the living Magisterium of the Church which exercises ITS AUTHORITY in the name of Jesus Christ.
The bible is clear on this. Now can you show me where the HS did not come upon the Church at Pentecost which you deny and for some strange reason only comes to you?
WHERE IS YOUR AUTHORITY WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE. I JUST SHOWED YOU THE CHURCH’S NOW SHOW ME YOURS!
You continue to deny this happening! You claim the Pope cannot possibly have this power given to him by the HS at Pentecost, but claim you got it. Where did you get it? I showed you where the Pope got it?
Now I want to see it in the bible where it says you have the Power of the HS but the Church does not, and the Apostles and Apostles in succession do not?
Because it has been showed to you scripture after scripture and you deny it. How in the name Of our Dear Lord can you deny the HS given to the Church at Pentecost?
Its like not worth even trying to show you something because you know it all! But I will try one last time. but in my heart I know its useless.
SS is not the ONLY AUTHORITY for our faith. Scripture tells us THe CHURCH, THE CHURCH, THE CHURCH was founded by JESUS CHRIST To keep the LIVING TRADITION ALIVE.
Did you skip PENTECOST. You know when God poured out the HS upon the Apostles. And because of that great gift THE HS dwells in the Church. IT because of the Church the Church that we can read the scripture with more confidence and umderstand it.
Here is the 3 thing’S Catholic’s know and believe about the bible. And you seem to miss!
The inspired word of God comes to us through SS.
The living words of God comes EQUALLY through the living Tradition of the Church
The infallible word of God is transmitted by scripture and Tradition has been intrusted solely to the living Magisterium of the Church which exercises ITS AUTHORITY in the name of Jesus Christ.
The bible is clear on this. Now can you show me where the HS did not come upon the Church at Pentecost which you deny and for some strange reason only comes to you?
WHERE IS YOUR AUTHORITY WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE. I JUST SHOWED YOU THE CHURCH’S NOW SHOW ME YOURS!
You continue to deny this happening! You claim the Pope cannot possibly have this power given to him by the HS at Pentecost, but claim you got it. Where did you get it? I showed you where the Pope got it?
Now I want to see it in the bible where it says you have the Power of the HS but the Church does not, and the Apostles and Apostles in succession do not?
Because it has been showed to you scripture after scripture and you deny it. How in the name Of our Dear Lord can you deny the HS given to the Church at Pentecost?
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
Wasn’t the canon put together prior to 310-315 AD? Isn’t the canon the “rule” or guidlines used by men to sort out truth from fiction? Is there a man, besides, Jesus that can lead to the truth? I believe that would be the work of the Holy Spirit and isn’t He the author of Scripture as well? Didn’t the Catholic Church burn Bibles and people with those bibles in an effort ot keep it out of the hands of ordinary people believing themselves to be the revealer of the truth; thus overridding the authority and power of the sole work of the Holy Spirit? Doesn’t it still maintain that control albeit more limited? Did the policy that was approved by bulls, dogmas and previous councils get overidden by Vatican II; this is what one of my relatives that is of the Latin Rite has told me; as part of why he rejects Vat. II and considers the Popes since Vat II as antipopes. He also told me that many Catholics, small in overall percentage, believe the same way and do not recognize the current papacy. He believes that anyone, including myself, that is not Catholic is damned and the new term “separated brethern” is another, as he calls it “double-speak” from the Vat II. I asked him what he meant by that and he said something interesting. Trent pronounced that anyone who was not Catholic was damned and this separeted brethern is part of a liberal and universal theology that has crept into the Church and that Vat II affirmed all of Trent, yet does recognoze those outside of the Church throughly damned, thus the double-speak. I called him on the Bible issue because techically anyone who reads an unauthorized, non latin version was also damned by Trent and previous councils; yet he reads an authorized NASB Catholic version and if Trent was confirmed by Vat II, then techically the curse remains as I see it. My relative did not bother to acknowledge this and said I would have to prove it. But rather than bursting his bubble I said I would get back with him on the details. Should I show him the details or just let sleeping dogs lie? Anyone with a suggestion on that? I love him and although I disagree with him; he is getting too old to learn latin all over or he may not read his Bible again.And who had the authority to put those NT scriptures into the canon that we all use? The Catholic Church! It is somewhat hypocritical to, on the one hand, accept the canon of scripture set forth by the Catholic Church and then deny its authority in other matters on the other hand.
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teak421
Guest
I do not understand that you mean?
Are you saying that the other billing people need to be eliminated because they have not, “Asked, Seeked or Knocked?” If this is correct, how can you make such a blanket statement like that? By what authority can you make that statement?
- Michael
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teak421
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teak421
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Where does it say it was?
Sola Scriptura is SCRIPTURE ONLY. That is your doctrine. Where does the Bible ACTUALLY teach this doctrine. If you can not show clearly in Scripture than the doctrine refutes itself. Its very easy to get…
Just demonstrate the validity of this doctrine by showing actual Scripture that confirms Sola Scriptura.
- Michael
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tmac1956
Guest
Yes the canon was put together in approximately mid 300s. But who approved the canon? Do you not know that there were dozens of books that didn’t make the cut - some even heretical and false? Who figured that out? Again – it was the Catholic Church that was guided by the Holy Spirit. Now, please answer my original question…
Yes! The CC did burn bibles as did the protestants and well they should have. Anytime error prone translations appeared (some having thousands of errors) they were destroyed. Then as now, the CC takes its role as the “…pillar and bulwark of the truth” seriously. However, your statement that the CC burned them to “…keep it out of the hands of ordinary people…” is false. As to the CC believing itself to be the “…revealer of the truth”, that is correct and directly from scripture. (I.e. pillar and bulwark of the truth)
No that is incorrect as well. Your relative is not part of the CC and is probably involved with some heretical sect. Why not try doing your own research.
Poppycock!
Better yet, show us the details. I am waiting…
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teak421
Guest
How could you possibly say that Chester has set his eyes on the carnal? Do you know him? Are you now a being that can see into people’s hearts?
You say “true church”, explain what you mean. Who belongs to this true Church you mentioned above? Be focused in your reply please… WHO, HOW does one become part of the True Church?
- Michael
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rinnie
Guest
This is exactly what I was talking about! Thank-you for writing it! This is what you call the truth. THis is clearly the root of your heart. Hate and nasty bitterness for the RCC.
And as usualy you have no idea what you are talking about.[SIGN][/SIGN]
You have not a single clue what anything that the Pope in the present or in the past has ever written. And I see its just like a song Hank wrote.
ITS A FAMILY TRADITION! I can see now where the saying came the fruit don’t fall far from the tree!
Birds of a feather…etc.I can only offer you my prayers at this time. I pray that somehow peace and God can enter your heart and open it up to see the fullness of the truth. There is no way that anyone can show you anything, because you are too angry and bitter to the Church to ever follow her teaching’s.
So as a child I remembe the game I think is was the farmer in the dell. Alot of older guys should remember it. THe farmer takes a wife etc. High ho the dariy oH…
Well guys with Johnnybeth All I can say it this!
THE CHEESE STANDS ALONE
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teak421
Guest
Here’s the Creed Ginger: What do you have an issue with?
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into hell. [See Calvin]
The third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
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teak421
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teak421
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
Where was the magisterim on that day? I can’t see nor find it? The apostles plus 3000 others were given the Holy Spirit; so which ones were the magisterium; I can’t see it; please help! Is it not you that has received the Scripture in context but deny its power and suthority?What do you do? like skip chapters you don’t understand. tear the page out? What?
SS is not the ONLY AUTHORITY for our faith. Scripture tells us THe CHURCH, THE CHURCH, THE CHURCH was founded by JESUS CHRIST To keep the LIVING TRADITION ALIVE.
Did you skip PENTECOST. You know when God poured out the HS upon the Apostles. And because of that great gift THE HS dwells in the Church. IT because of the Church the Church that we can read the scripture with more confidence and umderstand it.
Here is the 3 thing’S Catholic’s know and believe about the bible. And you seem to miss!
The inspired word of God comes to us through SS.
The living words of God comes **EQUALLY through the living Tradition of the Church **
The infallible word of God is transmitted by scripture and Tradition has been intrusted solely to the living Magisterium of the Church which exercises ITS AUTHORITY in the name of Jesus Christ.
The bible is clear on this. Now can you show me where the HS did not come upon the Church at Pentecost which you deny and for some strange reason only comes to you?
WHERE IS YOUR AUTHORITY WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE. I JUST SHOWED YOU THE CHURCH’S NOW SHOW ME YOURS!
You continue to deny this happening! You claim the Pope cannot possibly have this power given to him by the HS at Pentecost, but claim you got it. Where did you get it? I showed you where the Pope got it?
Now I want to see it in the bible where it says you have the Power of the HS but the Church does not, and the Apostles and Apostles in succession do not?
Because it has been showed to you scripture after scripture and you deny it. How in the name Of our Dear Lord can you deny the HS given to the Church at Pentecost?
First, I thought your church was founded by Peter. Second, what is the “living tradition” and where is that mentioned in Scripture? I misunderstood the reason for the church; I always thought it was the pillar and support of the truth, which the “truth” is contained in Scripture and creation, is gospel, it is the Trinity and the purpose for the church is to protect and deliver that truth, which the Bible strictly defines as a gathering of the redeemed as individuals; no mention of a magesterium as rule or head over any church in the Bible. Several mentions as Christ as the head of the church and all things on heaven and earth.
“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything,”
Eph 1:22And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
Eph 5:23For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself {being} the Savior of the body.
Col 1:18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
Here is something for you to read, which explains this point via the Holy Spirit.
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%204:1-16&version=NASB
There is but one way an individual can understand the truth of Gods Holy Word; here it is for you.
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; {that is} the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, {but} you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, {that is} the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you {will} testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.”
If you claim to know the truth as you ascribe above and you claim it comes from your Church; then how come the Bible says it is from the Spirit of Truth that abides in each and is responsible for revealing the truth? Perhaps I have the truth?
I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth, for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever: Grace, mercy {and} peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
Who is the “all” in this verse? Is it the Church or “all” as in idivduals from every tribe, tongue, nation, rich, poor, healthy, sick, young and old? I know the truth because the “Spirit of Truth” abides in me!
I really like the verse above from 2 John because it is not only lovely in its truth, but dispels the myth that the verses above it were given only to the apsotles, which is simply not true.
Once Sealed Always Sealed (OSAS) Ya Like that; I just made it up, but it was always there all along?
In Him, you also, **after listening **to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation–having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The Greek word for seal is sphragizō, which means
- to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal for security: from Satan
- in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
Once one is sealed by the Holy Spirit; no one, including self, can separate the truly saved from the love of Christ. (Rom.8)
Can you now see that I am right, not because I am smarter, I’m not, but because God knows me?
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