Protestant interpretations...

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Ginger2 said:
Uh…how many times do I need to answer the same question? 🤷

Well, if I may use the “tongues” 😛 example I can show you plainly why they are wrong and I am right.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8)

In contrast, speaking in tongues is just one of many gifts that were given, but none were said to be a means of Salvation.

1 Cor 12:1 Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

From these verses, how is one who is given the gift of tongues saved any more than the one who is given the gift of wisdom, or knowledge, or healing?

They are wrong because they disagree with what the Bible says. I am right because I agree with the Bible.

Ginger
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Ahhhhhh!!! You are really funny Ginger. Your veggie story was a horrible argument and rather than try to refute what I say you move the ball.

Are you sure you don’t want to be a politician!
  • Michael
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
God’s grace reaches out to all men. Some accept this free gift while some reject it.

Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. **Otherwise, you also will be cut off. **23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again…32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
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I’ve asked this before, which grace? What kind of grace are you referring to?
 
Des said:
He/She most likely meant without a belief in Jesus.

But you told me the Apostles couldn’t error? So yes, some are without error in the context of teaching/preaching.
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Show me the post in context. Peter certainly errored on many occasions; Jesus called him Satan and Paul had to rebuke him for teaching what amounted to another gospel. However; the word of God written by the writers of the Bible via the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is w/o error.
Yes but the Catholic just has to look to what the Church teaches. SS folks like yourself are kind of in a bit of a dilemma where the same authority you have says something completely different to them. Then all you have is more bickering and verses flying back and forth without a resolution. This is 2000 years now after these ‘Doctrines’ were supposed to have been ‘laid out’ like you said. Yes what a wonderful gift God has given His people. And since you’ve infallibly declared your OSAS position, it’s such a pity you’ll never open yourself up to realizing the heresy of such a belief.

That’s the beauty of having a living teaching Magisterium. Any confusion about Doctrine, just get them to explain a little better. 😉
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Where does it promote it?
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Let someone else to the work God has called believers to do. Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (paraphrased). Are you saved?
 
rinnie said:
I thought I did JB. I showed you what the Pope said. There is a huge difference between what the Pope said and what you accuse him of saying. Kinda like what you do to scripture.

Again let me start again. The Pope first of all was addressing Catholic’s. Right there he wasn’t even talking to you. You are not Catholic. The Pope said that if you are Catholic and know the teachings of the CHurch and refuse to accept and obey the teaching’s of Christ and leave those teaching, your soul is in grace danger. Now how is that taking out of both sides of his mouth.

And the Pope asked all to come back to the CC and be united with the true teaching’s of Christ. Again what was wrong with that.

IT does amaze one though, I must admit, how you can take the word of a relative over the word of a Man who has been given the gift of the HS to speak to others. Tell me what do you feel that your relative has that beats the HS in being able to teach the word of God?

What gift does he have and where did it come from. And how In your eyes could it overpower the HS in teaching?
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How do you know the Pope has the Holy Spirit? That would be equivalent to saying you know he is saved without ever meeting or talking to the person. Are you God?

You did not answer the question; you see Vat II affirmed Trent, then said it is okay to read the Bible in the vernacular if a Catholic Bible as opposed Trent which affirmed Leo the something and several council in 1230 or 1234, which forbid and cursed anyone with a Bible that was not strictly approved by the Church and was in the language of Church choice, which I believe was Latin. Do you see the contradiction and the double-speak. Not just the current Pope, but all the ones since Vat II which is John Paul forward? They can’t correct it can they if they were councils, bulls and dogma?
 
rinnie said:
[SIGN][/SIGN]
JohnnyBeth;5764884:
I once hear a Catholic say the natural birth control was no different than wearing a condom or using the pill because in God’s sight because with either method the intention is the same. They also said it puts an undue burden on women in the Church that Christ would not ask them to bear. [SIGN]They are right; prohibibeside the Bble doesn’t t that unless it is murder, like a morning after pill.
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]

Please Please show me scripture that says you can use birth control of any means as long as its not the morning after pill.

I know you will igmore this like you do any other question. You have not backed up any yet with scripture. ANd if you did the scripture was taken either completely out of context or had nothing at all to do with what you said. But okay show me this scripture.

Next News Flash here JB. Do not repeat second hand gossip. If you want to know the teaching’s of the CC there is a book called the CCC. ITs all in there and easy to umderstand. Or better yet pay a visit to the RCC its there too. There is also bible study. Maybe try that.

Then you can have a little merit in what you say, and can at least know a little of what you are talking about.

Instead of using this relative of yours. Or saying things like my aunts brothers sisters brothers sisters brother told me. Please this is getting a little our of hand would you not agree, If you are gonna call the Church on a teaching please quote it. There are many many sources out there you can use, But believe it or not the CHurch CANNOT DEFEND what your relative says. First of all because your relative does not teach what the church teaches, and your relative has no clue what he or she is talking about. Or ask them for official teaching that should shut them down. I promise you that! It works every time!👍
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I’m not Catholic so the legalistic rules do not apply to me; they apply to Catholics. Scripture does not speak on birth control; it does speak on murder. Therefore it falls into the category of conscience, which Paul spoke about. Fortunately many Catholics are able to have a clear conscience and use birth control. If your conscience says it is a sin, then for you it is a sin. Doesn’t change the guilt and pressure it bears on women in the Church. If it is a sin for you; then I would encourage you to follow your conscience.

Since some Catholics do not recognize Vat II; then your statement would be meaningless to them…right?
 
JohnnyBeth said:
How do you know the Pope has the Holy Spirit? That would be equivalent to saying you know he is saved without ever meeting or talking to the person. Are you God?

You did not answer the question; you see Vat II affirmed Trent, then said it is okay to read the Bible in the vernacular if a Catholic Bible as opposed Trent which affirmed Leo the something and several council in 1230 or 1234, which forbid and cursed anyone with a Bible that was not strictly approved by the Church and was in the language of Church choice, which I believe was Latin. Do you see the contradiction and the double-speak. Not just the current Pope, but all the ones since Vat II which is John Paul forward? They can’t correct it can they if they were councils, bulls and dogma?
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JB, you don’t even understand the most basic things about the Bride of Christ, and yet you attack Her. You’re talking about disciplinary matters - which can and do change. It’s the Church’s doctrines that are protected from error by the Holy Spirit. Which is what you see in the Bible.
 
JohnnyBeth said:
I’m not Catholic so the legalistic rules do not apply to me; they apply to Catholics.
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Well, I guess that answers my earlier question to you: yes, you are greater than the Catholic St. Paul, you’re not under the Law of Christ - too “legalistic” for you, I guess…
 
JohnnyBeth said:
Show me the post in context. Peter certainly errored on many occasions; Jesus called him Satan and Paul had to rebuke him for teaching what amounted to another gospel. However; the word of God written by the writers of the Bible via the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is w/o error.
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After the Day of Pentecost, if you believe the Apostle could error then what you said below there has no substance to it whatsoever.
Everything Peter did was before they received the Holy Spirit and BEFORE the birth of the Christian Church and even then wasn’t to explicitly teach another.
And I was originally referring to Galatians where Paul withstood ‘Cephas’ to His face.
JohnnyBeth said:
Let someone else to the work God has called believers to do. Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (paraphrased). Are you saved?
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CHESTERTONRULES said:
The Church’s teaching is clear. We don’t know the mind of God. This passage refers to what MAY happen, not what will happen.

*847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337*

Relevant verses in scripture:

1 Tim 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Luke 12
47"That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
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This is the question how does the man living in the bush who has never heard of the gospel or of Christ?
Romans 1:18-23 or the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Romans 2:14-16 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, ***15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, ***16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
 
teak421 said:
JohnnyBeth, just for clarification purposes, do you believe in Calvinism? Or, do you believe in Once Saved Always Saved?
  • Michael
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If I am labeled with “Calvinist”; it does not bother me. OSAS for sure; you cannot loose which you don’t have; if you got it, then it was wholly the work of God and no one can be snatched away or separated from His love and a true believer would never want to.
 
Luke65 said:
JB, you don’t even understand the most basic things about the Bride of Christ, and yet you attack Her. You’re talking about disciplinary matters - which can and do change. It’s the Church’s doctrines that are protected from error by the Holy Spirit. Which is what you see in the Bible.
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So Dogmas, Bulls and Council decisions are no longing binding on the faithful???
 
Luke65 said:
Well, I guess that answers my earlier question to you: yes, you are greater than the Catholic St. Paul, you’re not under the Law of Christ - too “legalistic” for you, I guess…
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Paul warned against being under the law; Paul was not under the law; Saul was.
 
Des said:
After the Day of Pentecost, if you believe the Apostle could error then what you said below there has no substance to it whatsoever.
Everything Peter did was before they received the Holy Spirit and BEFORE the birth of the Christian Church and even then wasn’t to explicitly teach another.
And I was originally referring to Galatians where Paul withstood ‘Cephas’ to His face.
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Paul had to rebuke him for teaching what amounted to another gospel. After the day of Pentecost. However; the word of God written by the writers of the Bible via the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is w/o error. No person is without error with the exception of Jesus and if you are faithful Catholic, then Jesus and Mary.
 
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