Protestant marriages, Catholic marriages?

[DCManTommy]

I’m sure you are correct as to the stance of the CC…the Catholic stance allowing annullments when certain issues are submitted to make the “marriage” invalid is a Cathlic belief. A “marriage” declared “null” due to improper form or some impediment due to “intent” after thirty years and multiple children…is a “divorce” in most Protestant minds…I understand the Catholic position of annullments…there is no “remarriage” when a decree of nullity is issued as a “marriage” hasn’t “really” occured…no matter the time frame or the quantity of children issued from this “invalid marriage”…just a “second wedding”…which may or may not be valid…

I submit that while there is no Protestant “equal” “sacramentally” to “annullment” in most cases…if a Protestant marriage breaks up for the very same reasons a Catholic marriage would be declared “null”…but the Protestant uses a civil court to declare “divorce”…it’s really an “annullment” IF the same reasons would have been used by Catholics for their annullment process…Understood Catholics do not believe their annullments are really divorces…even if Protestants do.

Now the distinction between three concepts should be utterly clear:
(1) Civil divorce
(2) Catholic divorce, and
(3) Protestant divorce

Both (2) and (3) require “annullment” so that the divorce and/or remarriage is deemed biblical. All divorces require (1).

The difference is that Protestant divorce (3) involves permissiveness, lax rules (if any), using personal popes with poor command of scripture and amateur exegesis, as arbiter as to whether their divorce and remarriage is ‘biblical’. Protestants seek advice from each other and confound the truth with social influence, more humanistic corruption for their decision making. Then they have conversations in their head to convince themselves of whether or not they are biblically remarrying and divorcing. Thus operating on a null-set, it is unlikely that their decision making is biblical at all. The conversations they hold in their head degrade into psychological tricks, apologies, and rationalization to end up at the conclusion that they most desire at that given time. Again, the personal pope serves themselves, not God. Service to God is the illusion.

On the contrary, the Catholic (2) takes their case to learned scholars who protect the sacraments, and help us as true teachers to enact the will of God. The Catholic humbles themselves before this authority of teaching and yields to its advice. The priests will not act impulsively, and will take the sacredness of the marriage very seriously even as the two spouses are bombarded by humanistic influence and corruption. The priest will patiently collect evidence and information, and continuously use their superior grasp of the faith, theology, and The Word to narrow us down to a biblical conclusion regarding annullment. If the faithful spouses continue to respect this counsel, the inevitable result is not just a biblical conclusion, but also comprehension, reconciliation, and coming closer to God.

 

[DCManTommy]

I have been divorced for many years. Shortly after my divorce, I applied for and received an annulment. I did that, not because I wanted to get married right away, but because I felt it would be healing to me, which it was.

Whereas my Catholic marriage was annulled, one of my daughters married a non-Catholic and has never had an opportunity to be in a Catholic marriage. She has been with this man for over 13 years now and has a stable, loving home. Because the Church won’t accept her with this marriage, she left the Church and found a Protestant church to go to. It bothers her, as she had a really good experience in Catholic school, but she feels she has no choice, as her husband, though a good man, refuses to become Catholic. The sad thing is, her children are being raised in that Protestant church and will never have the experience of the sacraments or any of the Catholic life.

Over the years, I have thought a lot about my own annulment, my daughter’s situation, and others’ difficulties over marriage. I think that the Church really needs to look at this problem because it is affecting what happens to the future generations. Nobody really wants to get a divorce, and many people would still be Catholics if the marriage rules were different. I understand very well the principles that are being upheld, but the Lord is also a merciful and forgiving God. I really do hope that the leaders in our Church find some way to help these people.

Barb, do tell us, what Archdiocese did not “accept” your daughter’s marriage to a protestant? Please do be specific.

 

[Reuben_J]

Whereas my Catholic marriage was annulled, one of my daughters married a non-Catholic and has never had an opportunity to be in a Catholic marriage.

Hi. Your daughter should try to go through a Catholic marriage.

The church allows mixed marriages. If the spouse is non-Catholic, they can get married in the church. The service include a full matrimonial mass or a mass with only the blessing depending on your parish priest. The only condition is you promise to bring up the children in the Catholic religion.

Over the years, I have thought a lot about my own annulment, my daughter’s situation, and others’ difficulties over marriage. I think that the Church really needs to look at this problem because it is affecting what happens to the future generations. Nobody really wants to get a divorce, and many people would still be Catholics if the marriage rules were different. I understand very well the principles that are being upheld, but the Lord is also a merciful and forgiving God. I really do hope that the leaders in our Church find some way to help these people.

This is a sad scenerio about the state of marriages today.

Catholic marriages should never ended up in divorce for they are unique marriages. The Scarament of Matrimony is a gift from God. Your marriage is God loving gift for you. If it is a gift from God, don’t you think He will not protect your marriage from destruction? It is not a matter of weakness but an understanding of what you are plunging in marriage.

Christian marriage unlike any other marriages consist of three persons - the spouses and God. The third person should be honored, revered and obeyed in all your marriage life including in your bedroom. You can be sure if you include God in your marriage, it will never be broken for he can protect it. He will honor your obedience and your marriage will be blessed accordingly in all your life.

Marriage is a one-off experience in our life. If we miss one we should not expect to get another. People like Prince Charles and Edward Kennedy made marriage a bad name.

God bless you.

 

[rinnie]

Now the distinction between three concepts should be utterly clear:
(1) Civil divorce
(2) Catholic divorce, and
(3) Protestant divorce

Both (2) and (3) require “annullment” so that the divorce and/or remarriage is deemed biblical. All divorces require (1).

The difference is that Protestant divorce (3) involves permissiveness, lax rules (if any), using personal popes with poor command of scripture and amateur exegesis, as arbiter as to whether their divorce and remarriage is ‘biblical’. Protestants seek advice from each other and confound the truth with social influence, more humanistic corruption for their decision making. Then they have conversations in their head to convince themselves of whether or not they are biblically remarrying and divorcing. Thus operating on a null-set, it is unlikely that their decision making is biblical at all. The conversations they hold in their head degrade into psychological tricks, apologies, and rationalization to end up at the conclusion that they most desire at that given time. Again, the personal pope serves themselves, not God. Service to God is the illusion.

On the contrary, the Catholic (2) takes their case to learned scholars who protect the sacraments, and help us as true teachers to enact the will of God. The Catholic humbles themselves before this authority of teaching and yields to its advice. The priests will not act impulsively, and will take the sacredness of the marriage very seriously even as the two spouses are bombarded by humanistic influence and corruption. The priest will patiently collect evidence and information, and continuously use their superior grasp of the faith, theology, and The Word to narrow us down to a biblical conclusion regarding annullment. If the faithful spouses continue to respect this counsel, the inevitable result is not just a biblical conclusion, but also comprehension, reconciliation, and coming closer to God.

DC Man where did you come from Welcome. And thanyk-you for your heart felt and intelligent responses. You will be a great asset to the Forums.

 

[rinnie]

Ruben J I agree with you I do not understand why her daughter was not permitted to be married in the RCC. My daughter was married in a mixed marriage as I myself was.

I know all she had to do was prove that she had all of her sacraments, and had to go to classes. And like you said her husband had to agree to bring the kids up in the faith. Now that was only a year ago so nothing could have changed.

And my husband and I got married 28 years ago and it was the same.

Ironically her husband was the one who thought the classes were a wonderful thing. He has not come into the faith yet But now its up to the HS to call him when its time.

But he said that he feels all people getting married should go through the classes. Not only because of knowing the faith they married into, but everyday problems. They had married couples go through the stages of marriage to show them the ups and downs.

The one thing that I believe helped them alot was money. They were told that money is one of the biggest causes of divorce. And they were told usually one spouse is better at managing money then another.

They also told them some have separate check books also. And care to manage it themself. One pays this bill one that. But issues that need to be addressed before marriage. There is no right or wrong way, its what you agree on and what works for you. Personally my husband and I always had our own system he makes it. I spend it! Just kidding

And children, and work, etc. This should all be addressed in class, and among other couples. They both said there were 2 couples that were probally not going to make it. If they did they were going to have a very hard time. If kids could see this, wonder what everyone else saw. But it is something everyone should think about. It may not be the cure, but it couldn’t hurt.

 

[Bluegoat]

Now the distinction between three concepts should be utterly clear:
(1) Civil divorce
(2) Catholic divorce, and
(3) Protestant divorce

Both (2) and (3) require “annullment” so that the divorce and/or remarriage is deemed biblical. All divorces require (1).

The difference is that Protestant divorce (3) involves permissiveness, lax rules (if any), using personal popes with poor command of scripture and amateur exegesis, as arbiter as to whether their divorce and remarriage is ‘biblical’. Protestants seek advice from each other and confound the truth with social influence, more humanistic corruption for their decision making. Then they have conversations in their head to convince themselves of whether or not they are biblically remarrying and divorcing. Thus operating on a null-set, it is unlikely that their decision making is biblical at all. The conversations they hold in their head degrade into psychological tricks, apologies, and rationalization to end up at the conclusion that they most desire at that given time. Again, the personal pope serves themselves, not God. Service to God is the illusion.

On the contrary, the Catholic (2) takes their case to learned scholars who protect the sacraments, and help us as true teachers to enact the will of God. The Catholic humbles themselves before this authority of teaching and yields to its advice. The priests will not act impulsively, and will take the sacredness of the marriage very seriously even as the two spouses are bombarded by humanistic influence and corruption. The priest will patiently collect evidence and information, and continuously use their superior grasp of the faith, theology, and The Word to narrow us down to a biblical conclusion regarding annullment. If the faithful spouses continue to respect this counsel, the inevitable result is not just a biblical conclusion, but also comprehension, reconciliation, and coming closer to God.

It rather seems as if you have not bothered to read this thread at all. Have you not seen that Protestants have a number of ways of dealing with the issue of divorce, and that some are far more strict than the Catholic Church? Certainly to call them, as a group, lax, shows little actual knowledge of what Protestant groups teach.

And your list neglects to address divorce in the Orthodox Church.

 

[rinnie]

Publisher may I also add that I have a great deal of respect for you. I do not agree with your faith, but there is still alot of things that we do agree on. But I hope you can learn some truth from us. that is all I want. To get you thinking. Please re-read the scripture. let the Holy Spirit show you the truth that has been shown to us.

 

[adamjthompson]

How do protestant faiths explain divorce. Do they really believe that it is acceptable to Jesus Christ? Or do they believe he meant it when he said what God joins together let no man tear apart?

Sadly, some protestants are accepting of divorce.This should not be, though.

Each of the churches I have been a member of has been strongly opposed to divorce, except for biblical reasons (adultery and maybe desertion). If a church member tried to divorce unbiblically, they would be disciplined by the session. In my experience, protestant churches are rather like Catholic churches, in that people who are bent on getting a divorce just leave the church and get it anyway.

 

[CradleCath]

And to make matters worse. And really this is the main question I have for starting this thread.

There is this customer of mine, she is Protestant and was married in the same Protestant Church 3 times. Now I do not know what Protestant Dem. But she was married by the same church 3 times. Now she is married and living with another guy as we speak, but still walks into that church and receives the Body of Christ. How can that be?

Just wanted to point out that if she’s walking into a Protestant Church…she’s not receiving the Body of Christ.

 

[Publisher]

Publisher may I also add that I have a great deal of respect for you. I do not agree with your faith, but there is still alot of things that we do agree on. But I hope you can learn some truth from us. that is all I want. To get you thinking. Please re-read the scripture. let the Holy Spirit show you the truth that has been shown to us.

I am not disputing that Catholics do not believe in divorce. That is understood. I am pointing out that Protestants do not necessarily share your fine distinctions between what constitutes a marriage and what does not. I have no doubt that whether a Catholic who’s been with their “partner” for 10 days or 10 years or 30 years with children and grandchildren find an impediment which in Catholic belief prevents a “true sacramental marriage” to have occured…either real or manufactured impediment to get out of the marriage…if the church agrees that an impediment does indeed exist the marriage can be declared “null”. I understand Catholics do not consider this a divorce…period.

I understand that a civil divorce must accompany a church annullment in order for the Catholic to be “married sacramentally” and stay out of legal ramifications with the civil authorities as if no such “civil divorce” occurs and only an “annullment” through the church, if the offending party is remarried in the eyes of the state but truly a “first marriage” in the eyes of the church they may incur bigamy charges…understood…Catholics do not believe in divorce.

Most Protestants do not have the “church courts” in place to declare their civil marriage…“annulled”.

What occurs in the realm of religious belief between the two traditions does at time make such disscussion difficult…however…a person receiving a “civil divorce” IS divorced as far as the state is concerned. Protestants here in the US have typically left matters of marriage validity to the state…whether Protestant or Catholic if the state declares their “marriage” dissolved by “civil divorce” then according to the state…they are “divorced” even though the Catholic church states “no marriage really occurred so the party was never really married in the first place “sacramentally” so no divorce took place since Catholics do not believe in nor permit Catholics from divorcing in the church.” However if a true sacramental marriage did occur and the couple gets a civil divorce the “divorced” parties must live celibate and chaste lives since they were marrried sacramentally and the Catholic church does not permit divorce…since they are still sacramentally married even though civilly divorced.

Most Protestants do not draw the distinction between “divorce” and “annullment” unless the state ALSO issues an “annullment”…which is not often the case…a “civil divorce” is issued…and to Protestants if a Catholic is “civilly divorced” but the church recognizes no sacramental marriage occured and an annullment is issued they parties are free to marry someone else…to a Protestant who does not draw such distinctions…they are “remarried” and have had a “divorce”…albeit a “civil divorce”.

While civil law and church law may at times overlap in the area of marriage, to a Protestant and the population at large the Catholic declaration of annullment IS equal to a “Protestant divoce”…real or imagined…that is the perception…whether the Catholic church officially recongnizes that or not seems to be what is being played out on this board. That is where I am coming from…it may not be how Catholics look at marriage/divorce/annullment…but it is how a secular society looks at it.

For all intents and purposes the friend’s sister I wrote about WAS divorced…my Catholic friend realizes in some cases the “reasons” provided the tribunal is “bogus” AND an annullment is declared where IT SHOUD NOT HAVE BEEN…but that was the reality of the situation. In everyone’s mind other than Catholics this woman was “divorced” and “remarried” after decades of “marriage” and numerous children being raised by the couple…she wanted out of the “marriage” but still wanted to be “Catholic”.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

I am not disputing that Catholics do not believe in divorce. That is understood. I am pointing out that Protestants do not necessarily share your fine distinctions between what constitutes a marriage and what does not. I have no doubt that whether a Catholic who’s been with their “partner” for 10 days or 10 years or 30 years with children and grandchildren find an impediment which in Catholic belief prevents a “true sacramental marriage” to have occured…either real or manufactured impediment to get out of the marriage…if the church agrees that an impediment does indeed exist the marriage can be declared “null”. I understand Catholics do not consider this a divorce…period.

I understand that a civil divorce must accompany a church annullment in order for the Catholic to be “married sacramentally” and stay out of legal ramifications with the civil authorities as if no such “civil divorce” occurs and only an “annullment” through the church, if the offending party is remarried in the eyes of the state but truly a “first marriage” in the eyes of the church they may incur bigamy charges…understood…Catholics do not believe in divorce.

Most Protestants do not have the “church courts” in place to declare their civil marriage…“annulled”.

What occurs in the realm of religious belief between the two traditions does at time make such disscussion difficult…however…a person receiving a “civil divorce” IS divorced as far as the state is concerned. Protestants here in the US have typically left matters of marriage validity to the state…whether Protestant or Catholic if the state declares their “marriage” dissolved by “civil divorce” then according to the state…they are “divorced” even though the Catholic church states “no marriage really occurred so the party was never really married in the first place “sacramentally” so no divorce took place since Catholics do not believe in nor permit Catholics from divorcing in the church.” However if a true sacramental marriage did occur and the couple gets a civil divorce the “divorced” parties must live celibate and chaste lives since they were marrried sacramentally and the Catholic church does not permit divorce…since they are still sacramentally married even though civilly divorced.

Most Protestants do not draw the distinction between “divorce” and “annullment” unless the state ALSO issues an “annullment”…which is not often the case…a “civil divorce” is issued…and to Protestants if a Catholic is “civilly divorced” but the church recognizes no sacramental marriage occured and an annullment is issued they parties are free to marry someone else…to a Protestant who does not draw such distinctions…they are “remarried” and have had a “divorce”…albeit a “civil divorce”.

While civil law and church law may at times overlap in the area of marriage, to a [SIGN]Protestant and the population at large the Catholic declaration of annullment IS equal to a “Protestant divoce”…real or imagined…that is the perception[/SIGN]…whether the Catholic church officially recongnizes that or not seems to be what is being played out on this board. That is where I am coming from…it may not be how Catholics look at marriage/divorce/annullment…but it is how a secular society looks at it.

For all intents and purposes the friend’s sister I wrote about WAS divorced…my Catholic friend realizes in some cases the “reasons” provided the tribunal is “bogus” AND an annullment is declared where IT SHOUD NOT HAVE BEEN…but that was the reality of the situation. In everyone’s mind other than Catholics this woman was “divorced” and “remarried” after decades of “marriage” and numerous children being raised by the couple…she wanted out of the “marriage” but still wanted to be “Catholic”.

But see you are saying you understand but you don’t. Here is why. You are saying that yes I understand what the Church says, and I understand what you guys are saying but its still the same as a protestant divorce.

But the point that we are telling you is this, no it isn’t. When a protestant gets a divorce they never say that there was never a marriage. A divorce is ending a marriage. An annulment means no marriage is ended because it never existed.

What a Catholic could consider a divorce in the protestant eyes is a legal separation. They cannot live together so they part, but in the eyes of God they were married, acknowledge that marriage and cannot remarry or have a relationship with a man until the other passes. They legally can be no longer bound to eachother like a protestant divorce. But beings that they are not protestant the buck does not stop there. They must live alone because if they are with another they are commiting adultery. SO it is not the same in any means of the word. They are still united as one in the eyes of God so no man or woman can come between them. The reason it is not called a divorce is because no Priest can separate what God puts together. But the Church also can allow a couple to live separate if one is in harms way. Physically or mentally. But there is always hope with the help and grace of God the couple could be reunited in the marriage in every sense of the word.

 

[Godfollower]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

But see you are saying you understand but you don’t. Here is why. You are saying that yes I understand what the Church says, and I understand what you guys are saying but its still the same as a protestant divorce.

But the point that we are telling you is this, no it isn’t. When a protestant gets a divorce they never say that there was never a marriage. A divorce is ending a marriage. An annulment means no marriage is ended because it never existed.

What a Catholic could consider a divorce in the protestant eyes is a legal separation. They cannot live together so they part, but in the eyes of God they were married, acknowledge that marriage and cannot remarry or have a relationship with a man until the other passes. They legally can be no longer bound to eachother like a protestant divorce. But beings that they are not protestant the buck does not stop there. They must live alone because if they are with another they are commiting adultery. SO it is not the same in any means of the word. They are still united as one in the eyes of God so no man or woman can come between them. The reason it is not called a divorce is because no Priest can separate what God puts together. But the Church also can allow a couple to live separate if one is in harms way. Physically or mentally. But there is always hope with the help and grace of God the couple could be reunited in the marriage in every sense of the word.

With respect, I believe that Publisher understands us completely. Publisher’s points seem to me to be three-fold:

1. 
   *]Some Protestants think some Catholics abuse the annulment process to accomplish what is in fact a divorce (e.g., the marriage isn’t working anymore, so they say things to the tribunal that cause the tribunal to rule that the Sacrament of Matrimony was not validly performed);
   *]Some – many? – Protestants in fact get divorces under circumstances that we would say qualify for annulment, but their churches lack an annulment process, so this goes unnoticed;
   *]Many Catholics – and some Protestants, too – blur the distinctions, so a lot of confusion reigns.
   
   So, when Publisher says that some Catholic annulments are the same as some Protestant divorces, Publisher simply means that it ain’t as bad on the Protestant side of the fence as we Catholics might believe.

 

[cyber1call]

With respect, I believe that Publisher understands us completely. Publisher’s points seem to me to be three-fold:

1. 
   *]Some Protestants think some Catholics abuse the annulment process to accomplish what is in fact a divorce (e.g., the marriage isn’t working anymore, so they say things to the tribunal that cause the tribunal to rule that the Sacrament of Matrimony was not validly performed);
   *]Some – many? – Protestants in fact get divorces under circumstances that we would say qualify for annulment, but their churches lack an annulment process, so this goes unnoticed;
   *]Many Catholics – and some Protestants, too – blur the distinctions, so a lot of confusion reigns.
   
   So, when Publisher says that some Catholic annulments are the same as some Protestant divorces, Publisher simply means that it ain’t as bad on the Protestant side of the fence as we Catholics might believe.

1. 
   I would add the following point: A large percentage of people who call themselves “Catholic” as well as people who call themselves “Protestant,” “Christian,” or the like are not even believers, so this whole discussion is moot for them. Married, divorced, whatever, it has no eternal benefit or consequences outside the salvation found only in Jesus Christ. Lip-service or family ties do not a Christian make.

 

[Publisher]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

But see you are saying you understand but you don’t. Here is why. You are saying that yes I understand what the Church says, and I understand what you guys are saying but its still the same as a protestant divorce.

But the point that we are telling you is this, no it isn’t. When a protestant gets a divorce they never say that there was never a marriage. A divorce is ending a marriage. An annulment means no marriage is ended because it never existed.

What a Catholic could consider a divorce in the protestant eyes is a legal separation. They cannot live together so they part, but in the eyes of God they were married, acknowledge that marriage and cannot remarry or have a relationship with a man until the other passes. They legally can be no longer bound to eachother like a protestant divorce. But beings that they are not protestant the buck does not stop there. They must live alone because if they are with another they are commiting adultery. SO it is not the same in any means of the word. They are still united as one in the eyes of God so no man or woman can come between them. The reason it is not called a divorce is because no Priest can separate what God puts together. But the Church also can allow a couple to live separate if one is in harms way. Physically or mentally. But there is always hope with the help and grace of God the couple could be reunited in the marriage in every sense of the word.

So we’re back down to the “wording”…if all Protestants were to say…“I got an annullment and not a divorce”…would that satisfy Catholics? I doubt it. What you are asking for is I agree with you…I agree YOU believe what you are saying…I don’t necessarily accept the “fine worded distinctions” of “intent” and “impediment” the Catholic church makes to determine if a marriage has occured or not…even one which lasts decades…I do understand what you are saying…but understanding is not the same as acceptance of the distinction you wish me to accept.

The couple CAN get remarried, Catholic or not, civilly, just not a “sacramental marriage” but a “civil marriage”…the state doesn’t recognize the fine distinction which Catholics do.

Understood, my friends sister received an annullment after decades of “invalid marriage” to another Catholic…even though they both were involved in the church…they “found reasons” to provide the tribunal to get their decades long “invalid marriage” annulled…to a Protestant they were divorced, whether they called it an “annullment” or not, as they did finally get a civil divorce and a church annullment…and she was “re-married” civilly…but first time “sacramentally”…and the church condoned it by issuing the decree of annullment…as is their right as a religious institution.

 

[Publisher]

with respect, i believe that publisher understands us completely. Publisher’s points seem to me to be three-fold:

1. 
   *]some protestants think some catholics abuse the annulment process to accomplish what is in fact a divorce (e.g., the marriage isn’t working anymore, so they say things to the tribunal that cause the tribunal to rule that the sacrament of matrimony was not validly performed);
   *]some – many? – protestants in fact get divorces under circumstances that we would say qualify for annulment, but their churches lack an annulment process, so this goes unnoticed;
   *]many catholics – and some protestants, too – blur the distinctions, so a lot of confusion reigns.
   
   so, when publisher says that some catholic annulments are the same as some protestant divorces, publisher simply means that it ain’t as bad on the protestant side of the fence as we catholics might believe.

1. 
   bingo!!!

 

[Godfollower]

bingo!!!

Hey, even a blind squirrel gathers an occasional acorn.

 

[rinnie]

With respect, I believe that Publisher understands us completely. Publisher’s points seem to me to be three-fold:

1. 
   *]Some Protestants think some Catholics abuse the annulment process to accomplish what is in fact a divorce (e.g., the marriage isn’t working anymore, so they say things to the tribunal that cause the tribunal to rule that the Sacrament of Matrimony was not validly performed);
   *]Some – many? – Protestants in fact get divorces under circumstances that we would say qualify for annulment, but their churches lack an annulment process, so this goes unnoticed;
   *]Many Catholics – and some Protestants, too – blur the distinctions, so a lot of confusion reigns.
   
   So, when Publisher says that some Catholic annulments are the same as some Protestant divorces, Publisher simply means that it ain’t as bad on the Protestant side of the fence as we Catholics might believe.

1. 
   I must disagree with you only because when a Catholic gets an annulment it is a long process that puts alot of People in the mix.
   ’
   I do not disagree that many Protestant marriages could result in a annulment. But there is still a difference between an annullment and divorce. That is my point.
   
   And if a RC abuses the annulment process and they are a true Catholic what did they gain. I mean if you got married and promised God, You know you did, and God knew you did, so if you go to the CHurch and indeed lie and do fool a Priest what good does it really do you. Do you think you fooled God, and in your heart did you really receive a annulment?
   
   And you can’t fool God. So if someone did indeed lie and should not have received an annulment and they know and God knows what did they gain. And are they really still married in the eyes of God? You figure it out.
   
   Why someone would lie would be a double sin. What good did it really do them. None that’s what good it did them. None. Because they will face God with the truth sooner or later.

 

[rinnie]

So we’re back down to the “wording”…if all Protestants were to say…“I got an annullment and not a divorce”…would that satisfy Catholics? I doubt it. What you are asking for is I agree with you…I agree YOU believe what you are saying…I don’t necessarily accept the “fine worded distinctions” of “intent” and “impediment” the Catholic church makes to determine if a marriage has occured or not…even one which lasts decades…I do understand what you are saying…but understanding is not the same as acceptance of the distinction you wish me to accept.

The couple CAN get remarried, Catholic or not, civilly, just not a “sacramental marriage” but a “civil marriage”…the state doesn’t recognize the fine distinction which Catholics do.

Understood, my friends sister received an annullment after decades of “invalid marriage” to another Catholic…even though they both were involved in the church…they “found reasons” to provide the tribunal to get their decades long “invalid marriage” annulled…to a Protestant they were divorced, whether they called it an “annullment” or not, as they did finally get a civil divorce and a church annullment…and she was “re-married” civilly…but first time “sacramentally”…and the church condoned it by issuing the decree of annullment…as is their right as a religious institution.

Publisher you miss the whole point again. In the eyes of a Catholic this is important. They could care less what the world thinks. Its God who they care about. And are right the state could care less, and the Church holds no authority over you. Only the authority you accept from them. So a protestant could care less.

They like you said do not see marriage as a joining of 2 souls to become one. Don’t believe it even though God said it. They do not accept that teaching in the bible. If they did they would also want an annulment. Or they would accept that they can no longer marry until the other dies.

You cannot make someone accept a truth they have never seen, or refuse to see. But just like you refuse to accept that not all marriages are true sacraments in the eyes of God and the Church. You said it yourself. You do not accept our teachings. BUt you still have no right to judge us either. And judge people who have got them. You were not there. You do not know. If it was your job you would be a Priest who God picked to lay this problem on.

But back to the question at hand. How do Protestants agree to this vow till death do us part, and say you can indeed get divorced when God said NO?

 

[Godfollower]

I must disagree with you only because when a Catholic gets an annulment it is a long process that puts alot of People in the mix.
’
I do not disagree that many Protestant marriages could result in a annulment. But there is still a difference between an annullment and divorce. That is my point.

And if a RC abuses the annulment process and they are a true Catholic what did they gain. I mean if you got married and promised God, You know you did, and God knew you did, so if you go to the CHurch and indeed lie and do fool a Priest what good does it really do you. Do you think you fooled God, and in your heart did you really receive a annulment?

And you can’t fool God. So if someone did indeed lie and should not have received an annulment and they know and God knows what did they gain. And are they really still married in the eyes of God? You figure it out.

Why someone would lie would be a double sin. What good did it really do them. None that’s what good it did them. None. Because they will face God with the truth sooner or later.

Oh, I agree with you. Basically what it boils down to is a misguided catechesis. They see the Church as authoritative (which is correct as far as it goes), but they see it legalistically:

Incorrect:

If I want to remarry, I have to get the Church’s okay on a piece of paper. It’s kind of a divorce, only Catholic style. So, what do I have to say to get the Church to sign off on the piece of paper?
Correct:If I want to remarry, I can’t while my spouse lives. Unless the first marriage wasn’t Sacramental, and that’s a question for the Church to decide. So, if I feel an annulment is proper, I’ll simply tell the Church what happened (perhaps with the help of a canonist so the proper facts are brought to the tribunal’s attention), and the Church will rule. Then I’ll proceed accordingly.​

The first is wrong; the second is proper. But what happens with some – repeat, some – Catholics is they view it from the American-television-view-of-the-legal-system perspective: they think it’s okay to do what you want, as long as they say what they have to say to get the decision they want, and honesty isn’t necessarily a high priority.

 

[Godfollower]

Publisher you miss the whole point again. In the eyes of a Catholic this is important. They could care less what the world thinks. Its God who they care about. And are right the state could care less, and the Church holds no authority over you. Only the authority you accept from them. So a protestant could care less.

They like you said do not see marriage as a joining of 2 souls to become one. Don’t believe it even though God said it. They do not accept that teaching in the bible. If they did they would also want an annulment. Or they would accept that they can no longer marry until the other dies.

You cannot make someone accept a truth they have never seen, or refuse to see. But just like you refuse to accept that not all marriages are true sacraments in the eyes of God and the Church. You said it yourself. You do not accept our teachings. BUt you still have no right to judge us either. And judge people who have got them. You were not there. You do not know. If it was your job you would be a Priest who God picked to lay this problem on.

But back to the question at hand. How do Protestants agree to this vow till death do us part, and say you can indeed get divorced when God said NO?

I think Publisher understands you clearly. I also think Publisher is contending that the annulment process gets abused in the Catholic Church; and I think Publisher is presenting us with (what Publisher believes to be) an example of such an abuse. I can’t say whether Publisher is correct about that specific example, because I don’t know the facts; but such examples do in fact occur all the time. I am utterly convinced that there are some Catholics out there who abuse the process in support of their own misguided understanding of Catholic teachings. And they make the rest of us (and, what’s worse, the Church) look bad.