Protestant Objection: "Christians are unified enough around Jesus and the Holy Spirit -- why do we need a physical, visible unity in the Catholic CHur

[dcarollo]

My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Catholic_Kenpo]

My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

John 17 is an excellent place to start. I would ask them if Jesus and His Father ever had any disagreement as to how people should be saved. Or if the Holy Spirit ever decided that he was “unified enough” and did something contrary to what God the Father said. I don’t think any right thinking Protestant would ever believe such a thing would ever happen. Why? Because the Holy Trinity are one in everything they think and do. Such is the nature of God. He can’t disagree with Himself. If He can’t disagree with Himself, then how can the current version of Christian unity be “unified enough” to satisfy the scripture in John 17?

-CK

 

[po18guy]

Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!" How would you answer? Thanks, Dan

Jesus did not come that we might have sufficient life in us, or sufficient scripture, or sufficient good news. He came that we might have life, and life in abundance (John 10:10). He came because man lives on every word that issues form the mouth of God (Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4). “Every word” is not in the bible. As Isaiah prophesied (Is 55:11) God’s Word does not return to Him void. So, where is it? No denomination, other than the Catholic and Orthodox, can claim to have “every word”

 

[Curious_Convert]

The call for unity, both spiritual and physical, is recurrent throughout the new testament. Jesus also lays down guidelines that only make sense in terms of a physical body of believers (i.e. when he says, ‘tell it to the Church’). Jesus started a physical community and entrusted them with the word and the sacraments. The book of Hebrews warns us to ‘forsake not the gathering of the believers.’ Acts tells us that the believers gathered around the apostles daily for the ‘breaking of bread and prayer.’ Jesus revealed himself to the travelers on the road to Emmaus through ‘the word’ and the ‘breaking of bread.’ Your friend is mistaken, a common Eucharist has sustained the Church in unity and will continue to, as Christ promised and St. Paul describes in Corinthians. The Eucharist is the body of Christ, and His grace sustains the Church, which is the mystical body of Christ.

I would highly recommend that you and your friend read what Justin Martyr had to say about the Eucharist and the mass in 155 AD. You will find a striking description of the Catholic mass uniting believers in faith and worship. This unity has enabled the Catholic Church to stay together, evangelize most of the world, and perform more works of charity than any other human organization in history. To God alone be the glory.

P.S.- all this is coming from a former fundamentalist non-denominational protestant whose eyes were opened after reading the Church Fathers and the Catechism.

-May God bless you on your journey.

 

[tarboy]

I struggle with this question myself and lean towards your Protestant friend.
I see the holy ghost working through christians of all denominations

My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Cat_Herder]

My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

My first response is: Uh, what common faith in Jesus? Even things like His Divinity and Humanity (and ours–like whether a fetus is a human life) are up for debate in Protestantism. Is the Holy Spirit the author of this confusion? Of course not.

Here is a more detailed answer.

 

[po18guy]

Yet, Jesus founded a Church and not a bible. If we disregard that Church (which takes the denial of the self, taking up one’s cross,and following Him), then what are we left with? Thousands of disagreeing denominations, and the weakening of the Body of Christ. Evil advances when good is divided. Need we more evidence?

 

[bmullins]

The answer to his objection is “What is the Eucharist?” If the Eucharist is what we as Catholics believe it to be… the protestant is actually saying Jesus is not enough to bring unity. You can find fellowship in other denominations. You can find prayer. You can find scripture study. You can find music that makes your body jam. You can find solitude and silence. But what you can’t find is Jesus being made present in the worship, being received in your flesh in the way only the Eucharist provides. He is with us in other ways yes. But he is present in the Eucharist in a very unique and special way, that all of us as followers must indeed seek and long for.

[bibledrb] John 6:54-55 [/bibledrb]

The Eucharist is the key.

 

[Gods_Peace]

My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

Shouldn’t Christians be under the authority of the disciples successors? Or am I wrong. Ask him if Jesus gave his disciples authority. Ask him how “biblically” authority is passed down.

 

[po18guy]

How do we let our light shine before men if we are the Body of Christ, yet Christ Himself is rendered thereby invisible? Makes no sense.

 

[PeterJohn]

My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

IMO

If your becoming catholic because of Christian unity, then that’s a great reason to do so because true unity in Christ is only found in persons loyal to the Lords will, and what He wills is the pope, confession, holy communion Ect ect. I would personally avoid explaining your willingness to convert being due to just unity, although as I have said it is a great and powerfull reason, I believe explaining it in a different way has its benifits. Your friend seems to perceive unity in his own unique way, void of havimg to do with what God desires of all men. And does he wish for you to refrain from catholisim? Perhaps this question, you might have to ask yourself next time you speak with him. Above all, in your conversations with him, and any future conversations that may be similar in subject, be Christ like. Gentle, charitable, reverent and loving.
God bless.

 

[po18guy]

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

In addition to listening to your friend’s words, look at the way in which they are constructed. Does this not bring to mind something from very early scripture? Genesis 3:1-6, for example? Your friend is asking you to settle for less. He or she is apparently satisfied with “just enough” to get by. But, God alone determines what “just enough” actually is. Are we willing to second-guess God? And, when we declare what “just enough” is, do we not put our God to the test? Heaven forbid!

I am not judging your friend - only the spirit that motivates what they have said.

 

[dcarollo]

Thank you all for your answers! I find myself actually envious that Catholics have “CHURCH” – What I have right now is more of a life raft. We’re doing “our best” just to get by.

Now, I Do NOT for a minute wish to demean that great work I have seen God doing through Protestants on many levels. We’re a creative, innovative, energetic, mission-sending, Bible-reading bunch of folks — but on the other hand, also stranded, floundering, aimless, detached, fighting, bickering, divided group.

It is a shame, however, to hear that some my Protestant friends (some former Catholics) feel they recieved such poor teaching in the R.C.C. that they have found themselves more “fulfilled” in their Protestant churches. I’ve come to understand this has NOTHING to do with ROman Catholicism itself, but – in fact, the church failing to be the Church! With the riches you have in the Sacraments, there is absolutely NO Excuse for The CHurch not to be the shining bride of CHrist!

 

[PeterJohn]

It is a shame, however, to hear that some my Protestant friends (some former Catholics) feel they recieved such poor teaching in the R.C.C. that they have found themselves more “fulfilled” in their Protestant churches. I’ve come to understand this has NOTHING to do with ROman Catholicism itself, but – in fact, the church failing to be the Church! With the riches you have in the Sacraments, there is absolutely NO Excuse for The CHurch not to be the shining bride of CHrist!

That is a shame that your friends feel that way.
I’ve actually talked about that problem before with friends of mine and this is the underlying truth… Many people don’t realize that the journey of learning is a life long journey, and it’s their responsibility to seek the truth, just like salvation is their personal journey as well.
Our beloved Jesus told Simon Peter to feed his sheep, not to force the sheep to eat. I sought out all that I have learned, and by doing so I realize this is a life long journey of learning that is totally up to me to persue. Lazy Catholics starve themselves.

 

[horselvr]

“Our beloved Jesus told Simon Peter to feed his sheep, not to force the sheep to eat. I sought out all that I have learned, and by doing so I realize this is a life long journey of learning that is totally up to me to persue. Lazy Catholics starve themselves.”

Exactly!!

 

[jediliz]

My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

then ask that friend why there are so many protestant churches (lutheran, methodist, presbyterian, etc) and if we are all united by our love for Jesus, why there are still those who HATE the Catholic church and say that Catholics aren’t Christians. There are even some protestant churches that don’t like other protestant churches, I think.

Early Christians died for their faith…one even died defending the Holy Eucharist…he was attacked while bringing it to christians condemned to die that were imprisioned.
ewtn.com/library/mary/tarcis.htm

The Eucharist sustains us and gives us graces…

 

[perro_sarnoso]

My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

Unified…hmmm. If by unified you mean the One, True Catholic church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as its first pope…264 popes later to Pope Benedict XVI…and the gates of hell have not and will not prevail against her.

That church and the [too many to count denominations of christians] in protest of the One, True Catholic church.

Oh yeah - that unity. Anyway, be that as it may:

Jesus Christ left us the Eucharist!! Him! for real!

Why would we not unite around His True and Real Presence?!

 

[PJM]

=dcarollo;9233733]My longing to move towards Catholicism (I am not yet Catholic) involves the unity of the Church as Jesus describes in John 17.

Objection from my Protestant friend:
“But why be Catholic? Look on the positive side, Aren’t ALL Christians unified just **enough **by our common faith in Jesus and the unity through the Holy Spirit? A common Eucharist is not going to bring Christian unity!”

How would you answer?

Thanks,
Dan

GREAT Question! Thank you:thumbsup:

The Answer evolves arounf “ONE”

Always and with complete cisistancy God’ bot Yahweh and Christ uniformily taught:

Beieve Only in ME : One God

Beleieve Only in what I teach, proclaim, Command, and Demand

And God had always had ONLY one “Chosen People”
In the OT [Exo. chapter3] the Hebrew Nation

In the NT / New Covenant Only the One Church that is actually / factually founded by Jesus Christ [Mt. 15:15-19], commanded by Him [Mt. 28:16-20] and guided by His Real Presence [Mt. 28:20; John 17:15-19, and has Christ Own Authority [John 17:15-19; Jon 20:19-22].

Mt.28:19-20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." … John.14: 26 “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” … John 16: 12 - 15 “ "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. … John 20:21-22 “Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.”

Eph.3: 9 to 12 “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him

John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

*Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [this MEANS ONLY One set of faith beliefs and the CC was the ONLY church in existence when these wrods were spoken] ***one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

**Eph. 2:19-20 **“So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Dan if your friend is a bible believer these MOGHT help you?

God Bless,
pat/PJM