Protestant... Oh How I HATE That Term...

[Sixtus]

Anything and everything that is NOT catholic is considered protestant… right?

Hey you guys, us Catholics love you dearly. Please do not forget that.

Yes, we DO lump you altogether. Yes, that is probably a bit unfair. Perhaps you need to establish your OWN identity.

But, you are who you are and above all you are Christian. That is ALL THAT COUNTS.

Anyway, you can also claim ‘Apostolic Succession’ because before you were Protestant, you were part of the Catholic Church.

Anyway, whether protestant or catholic makes no matter, the Lord said ‘there are many rooms in my fathers house, were it not so, I would have told you so’.

So, lets celebrate together. We have the Creator and sustainer of the Universe on our side, above all, the Author and Saviour of the Human Race.

We probably have a lot more in common than differences.

 

[wcknight]

Regarding the real presence, you may want to look up some real miracles where the host and wine in actuality turned into real human flesh and blood.

The first such incident happened very early on in Church history to a priest who did not believe in the real tranformation. I’m pretty sure he changed his mind afterwards. There are several such miracles, even one in which the host turned into a human beating heart. A bit too grisly for my taste, but it must have been quite spectaular.

 

[mercygate]

Maybe there is some confusion in what I mean by ‘unity’. I am not asking you to accept the practices and bring them into your church. What I AM asking is that the catholic church not view protestants as second class citizens as posted earlier. It’s as if you have a brother or sister in your own family that claims to be homosexual. You probably wouldn’t like it and wouldn’t want them to bring that lifestyle into your home but out in the world if someone started BASHING that same brother or sister you would stand next to them and defend them to the end. At least I would.

Ah, but if that brother were “evangelizing” my children to accept his lifestyle, telling them that the their parents are arrogant and intolerant, and publicly proclaiming that he is right and we are wrong, then I would have to protect my children from what I believe to be extremely dangerous teaching that could harm their immortal souls.

 

[JimO]

…but out in the world if someone started BASHING that same brother or sister you would stand next to them and defend them to the end. At least I would.

There are rude and inconsiderate people in all walks of life. The teachings of the Catholic Church in no way even suggest that other Christians are inferior or “second class”. If anyone implies otherwise, they are simply wrong. Our Pastor is fond of saying, “Don’t judge the Catholic faith by the poor practice of it by some of its members.”

I grew up in an area where there are relatively few Catholics and experienced the same thing myself. I cannot count the number of times that I’ve been told by another Christian that I’m going to hell because I am Catholic.

 

[cienwen]

Singinbeauty,

I am sorry but I think your arguments just aren’t logical. The idea that if we all called ourselves Christians then we would get along and accomplish more doesn’t make sense. I am a Catholic. You are non-denominational (I think). That means we believe very different things. Calling me a Christian (which I am) will not make me agree with you. At the same time, I am not ashamed to be a Catholic. Identifying myself as a Catholic to others lets them know what I believe. If I told someone that I was a Christian that tells them very little. Why would you not want someone to know what you believe? By giving the broadest definition of yourself to others it leaves you as a mystery. Is that what you are going for?

It kinda sounds like we can’t lose the ‘title’ because that would mean catholics and protestants would have to be the SAME… The Lord in Heaven forbid!

Why do you think that sameness is equality? Catholics and Protestants are not the same. They believe different things. They are equal in dignity. Men and women are not the same. They have different strengths and weaknesses but they are equal.

All I am saying is catholics and protestants ARE christians.

True. Following that logic…

Cats and dogs ARE mammals. Earth and Saturn ARE planets. Tim and Kelly ARE human.
Cats and dogs ARE NOT the same species. Earth and Saturn ARE NOT the same size. Tim and Kelly ARE NOT the same gender.

Catholics and Protestants ARE Christians. Catholics and Protestants ARE NOT the same in their beliefs.

To push to keep this whole ‘we are holier than thou’ attitude by refusing to take down the walls is not logical in my mind. God loves me just as much as He loves you, right?

Catholics think that Catholicism is the right religion, that it speaks the truth more completely than any other religion on earth. That’s why we are Catholic. If I truly thought that Hinduism or Evangelicalism taught the whole truth and not the Catholic Church yet remained Catholic, you would think there was something wrong with me wouldn’t you? Take down the walls? What on earth can you mean by that? Are you saying that we should abandon the Catholic faith? Or are you imply the theory of relativism? No one is right and no one is wrong. That is to go against Christ himself. As a Catholic, a Protestant, a Christian, we are called to judge what is right and wrong based on our best understanding of God’s truth. (Now don’t get me wrong! If I look at my neighbor cheating on his wife and say he is committing a grave sin that is not saying he is doomed to hell. That particular form of judgment is left to God alone. However, it is my responsibility to determine the action to be wrong.) Catholics believe that all non-Catholics are deficient in some way. Homosexual relations are wrong according to Catholics. Unitarians say it’s find and dandy. We don’t believe the same things. And it’s not just a little nit picking. We disagree on major moral issues! Catholics say Unitarians are wrong for promoting mortal sin. Unitarians say that Catholics are wrong for discriminating and making people feel bad. That’s not something you can just ignore and pretend it doesn’t matter.

IMHO identifying yourself is not a bad thing. If you don’t believe in Catholicism why do you have a problem with be called a Protestant by a Catholic? If you are proud of what you are and believe in your faith than why wouldn’t you want to announce it to the world?

Here. I’ll start.

I’M A ROMAN CATHOLIC AND I’M PROUD OF IT!

Peace

 

[Verita]

Maybe there is some confusion in what I mean by ‘unity’. I am not asking you to accept the practices and bring them into your church. What I AM asking is that the catholic church not view protestants as second class citizens as posted earlier. It’s as if you have a brother or sister in your own family that claims to be homosexual. You probably wouldn’t like it and wouldn’t want them to bring that lifestyle into your home but out in the world if someone started BASHING that same brother or sister you would stand next to them and defend them to the end. At least I would.

It’s obvious that Catholics and Protestants have a very different idea of unity. Protestants (at least the non-denominational variety that I am most familiar with) seem to think “being friendly” is the same as “being unified”. Catholics have a different understanding. When we think of “untity” we think of Jesus’ prayer that we be one as He and the Father are one, which is in every way possible. This is the kind of unity that the Catholic Church strives for.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

“The word tree is of no use if you are searching for a fir.”

In the same way the word Christian is sometimes not sufficient. If Catholics believe that they are part the one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and also believe that Protestants aren’t part of it, how could they even spread their faith if the only word they could use is Christian? I guess the same thing goes for Protestants.

Now, you might reject the word because you don’t like it. That’s fine but there is not much else you can do about it.

 

[rr1213]

The difference is that “Catholic” is a description that Catholics chose for themselves. “Protestant” is a name imposed on us by Catholics.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Please brace yourselves, I think I am about to offend everybody.

It is generally perceived that both Catholics and Protestants are Christians. But then the question of equal but different comes up.

The first question that needs to be asked is this: is a full glass of milk equal to a half-full/half-empty glass of milk?

The Catholic Church contains the full truth, Protestant denominations do not. How can we then suggest in any way that the Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations are equal?

The second question that needs to be asked is: what constitutes a Christian? I would hazard the guess, is that a Christian is one who embraces the teachings of Christ.

The Catholic Church contains and embraces all the teachings of Christ. The Protestant denominations do not . . . if they did, they would be Catholic . . . ergo, can Protestant denominations be truly called Christian?

There is ONE Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, any other denomination is not that ONE, and is not equal to it.

Marsha

 

[Sixtus]

Protestant" is a name imposed on us by Catholics.

rr1213 as I said earlier, regardless of name, we love you dearly. After all, you are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

If you do not like the name then re-invent it. Come up with something that reflects your OWN identity.

My brothers and sisters above are very proud of their faith and why not? But you can also be proud of yours too!

Let us celebrate what we have in common, not argue about how we differ

Shallom

 

[mercygate]

Please brace yourselves, I think I am about to offend everybody.

It is generally perceived that both Catholics and Protestants are Christians. But then the question of equal but different comes up.

The first question that needs to be asked is this: is a full glass of milk equal to a half-full/half-empty glass of milk?

The Catholic Church contains the full truth, Protestant denominations do not. How can we then suggest in any way that the Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations are equal?

The second question that needs to be asked is: what constitutes a Christian? I would hazard the guess, is that a Christian is one who embraces the teachings of Christ.

The Catholic Church contains and embraces all the teachings of Christ. The Protestant denominations do not . . . if they did, they would be Catholic . . . ergo, can Protestant denominations be truly called Christian?

There is ONE Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, any other denomination is not that ONE, and is not equal to it.

Marsha

If they confess the Trinity they are Christians. I concur 100% with everything else you have said. It would be to concede to a lie to agree that “we are the same” when Protestants leave out the pieces they don’t like. I was a Protestant. You have no idea how hard it is to choke on the truth that the Catholic Church is Who she claims to be. But once you get past that, it’s supernatural peace: Indescribable!

 

[JimO]

How can we then suggest in any way that the Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations are equal?

I believe that the concensus has been that all Christians, as persons, are equal in the sight of God, which is different than the equality of faiths. The OP seems upset that she is perceived as a “second class citizen” by Catholics. Such an attitude is simply wrong.

 

[Singinbeauty]

rr1213 as I said earlier, regardless of name, we love you dearly. After all, you are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

If you do not like the name then re-invent it. Come up with something that reflects your OWN identity.

My brothers and sisters above are very proud of their faith and why not? But you can also be proud of yours too!

Let us celebrate what we have in common, not argue about how we differ

Shallom

Hold the presses… who said I am not PROUD of what I believe and who I am? The reason I hate ‘protestant’ is because I get lumped in with any Tom - Dick - or Harry. Also, ‘protestant’ has received such a horrible conotation with catholics that it has become almost a derrogitory title, sometimes it’s spoken as if it is making a catholic throw up a little in their mouth.

BUT, how could I not be proud of my beliefs? They are who I am and I AM a child of God. How can you not be proud about that? If I was ashamed would I be here to discuss with you all?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Yes, but it’s not imposed on you anymore. It’s one of the words that carried a negative connotation which dissolved over time. As I said, the only advice I can give you is not to use it if you don’t like it. I think it’s unlikely that you will change a term that is used by both catholics and protestants alike.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

In the eyes of God we are all equal because Christ died for us all. We were all purchased for the same price. So to that extent, even the athiests, the heathens, the drug dealers and the mass murderers are equal with us. Is the OP content to be equal on those terms? Is he/she content to be equal merely as a human being? Or does she want to be equal as a member of a Protestant denomination? The first is her right by the fact of creation, the second will never happen.

Marsha

 

[mercygate]

Hold the presses… who said I am not PROUD of what I believe and who I am? The reason I hate ‘protestant’ is because I get lumped in with any Tom - Dick - or Harry. Also, ‘protestant’ has received such a horrible conotation with catholics that it has become almost a derrogitory title, sometimes it’s spoken as if it is making a catholic throw up a little in their mouth.

BUT, how could I not be proud of my beliefs? They are who I am and I AM a child of God. How can you not be proud about that? If I was ashamed would I be here to discuss with you all?

Singin’ – instead of worrying about what people call you, either innocently or otherwise, I would advise concentrating on real issues: Christ’s presence in the Eucharist, ecclesial authority, baptismal regeneration, stuff like that.

When it comes to what people call you, think of how much fun you’re gonna have on this side of the Tiber when people call you a “Romanist” or a “Papist” and when they call your faith “the Romish Deception.” Shucks. People hardly ever call us Papists any more. I miss it.

 

[Singinbeauty]

It’s one of the words that carried a negative connotation which dissolved over time.

Au contraire my friend. The term ‘protestant’ and it’s negative connotation has not dissolved as I run into the disgust when some catholics utter it. But I am glad that it has not negative meaning with you.

 

[corvidae]

I think perhaps the OP has seen evidence of division and is striking out against that. For example, perhaps she saw a Catholic church refuse to work with a Lutheran church on something because they were Lutheran or something.

The thing is, in as much as they agree, the Christian denominations do work together. For example, if something bad is happening to a town, such as hurricane Katrina, often everyone will band together and help out. But if the Catholic church is taking a stand against contraception in an area, why should a Church that does not believe it is wrong join them??

It is a ridiculous proposition that we would get more done by joining together under the banner of Christian. Why? Because we already do that. When we agree on an issue, we all stand up individually and make a stand. The thing is, we do not always agree.

I think perhaps you are confusing alliances with unity. Unity is being one, alliances are working toward the same goal.

Think of it this way, If I believe I have found a cure for cancer, why would I not shout from the mountaintops that I have the cure. It would be horribly selfish of me to stay silent because my cure might not be what some people think the cure would be. Now, change cancer to the soul. We all believe we have a cure for the soul, and we try to show other people our cure.

Now to be silent, and say we are the same would prevent any talk of the cure because it might offend people.

I think that Catholics and Non-Catholic Christians are allied in many different ways, but we are not unified.

In addition to this, you say you are not protesting anything in the Catholic Church, but you are not Catholic. So obviously there is something you are disagreeing with. Right?
The Christian Churches are based off of the Catholic church with some modifications, so because we did not change, and they did, we get to say that they are protesting something in us.

A lone Raven

 

[JimO]

Au contraire my friend. The term ‘protestant’ and it’s negative connotation has not dissolved as I run into the disgust when some catholics utter it. But I am glad that it has not negative meaning with you.

You must know some very ugly people who call themselves Catholics. My point is and has been, that this is simply wrong and not what the Church teaches. Are there Catholics who are rude, judgemental, and arrogant? Yes. Are there other Christians who are rude, judgemental, and arrogant? Yes. We are dealing with people. You make it sound like either the Church has come out with statements suggesting that “Protestants” are second-class citizens or that this belief is held by the majority of Catholics. This simply isn’t true and we get the same treatment from other Christians.

 

[Singinbeauty]

In the eyes of God we are all equal because Christ died for us all. We were all purchased for the same price. So to that extent, even the athiests, the heathens, the drug dealers and the mass murderers are equal with us.

Agreed.

Is the OP content to be equal on those terms?

Um, I think that this is common sense…

Is he/she content to be equal merely as a human being?

Yes.

Or does she want to be equal as a member of a Protestant denomination?

I am not WANTING to be considered equal. What you think is what you THINK. But I want the catholic community to know, as a whole, that ALL christians are EQUAL in Gods eyes as His children. The only favorites He has are the Jewish community.

The first is her right by the fact of creation, the second will never happen.

Marsha

So says you. But to be that closed minded and prideful, I will pray that the anger you feel for your fellow christian brothers and sisters will subside as you realize that God loves us all the same as His children. Not just as His creation.