Protestant? right

[lak611]

Continue to apply the rest of the signs. If they all don’t fit, it can’t be then. Jerusalem is the home of God’s chosen people.

But they rejected the Messiah.

 

[lak611]

The book of Revelation is different than the rest of the Bible. We are to figure this out with the clues given. We’re not told what it is. I have my interpretation and you obviously have yours.

The Bible was not written in a code. Revelation is no different from any other book. It has a literal, allegorical, moral and anagogical sense, as do all the other books of the Bible. Looking for clues is completely unnecessary.

 

[Godfollower]

It’s a matter of semantics,
The inscription is on one of the Pope’s triple tiara (crowns or miters). It says “VICARIVS FILII DEI”, which means “Vicor of Son of God”. Since in Latin, D=500, C=100, L=50, V=5, and I=1, adding the letters which stand for numbers in the title will add up to 666. The description in the Bible that the beast has “horns of a lamb” suggests that the beast will be of “devine” descendence

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_Tiara

Here’s a website for you to take a look,
Your not batting very good.

But that website doesn’t support your claim; in fact, it actually denies it!

Main article: Vicarius Filii Dei
A controversy, or scientifically rather a myth, touching the papal tiara, attributed to the Seventh-day Adventist Church and other Protestants, involves the claim that the words Vicarius Filii Dei (Vicar of the Son of God) exist on the side of one of the tiaras. The controversy centres on the widely made claim that, when numerised (i.e., when those letters in the alleged title that have Roman numerals value are added together), the words produce the number 666, described in the Book of Revelation as the Number of the Beast, who, some have claimed, would “wear” a crown similar to a triple tiara, a claim made by some evangelical Protestant groups who believe that the pope as head of the Roman Catholic Church is the Antichrist. Heretics dating back to the Cathars and Waldensians in the thirteenth century also held this view of the Church.

"Vicarius Filii Dei" is, in fact, not one of the pope’s titles, though the Donation of Constantine does use it to refer to Saint Peter specifically.

Four sources are sometimes given to back up the claim, including two witnesses who claimed to have seen Pope Gregory XVI wearing a tiara with Vicarius Filii Dei on it in 1832 and 1845,[21] the purported existence of a photograph of an early twentieth century papal funeral showing a tiara with the writing, and the assertion that the tiara with the writing was used to crown Eugenio Pacelli as Pope Pius XII in 1939.

None of the claims holds up to scrutiny. One of the occasions where the Pope was “seen” wearing the tiara was supposedly during a Pontifical High Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica. In fact popes never wore tiaras during Mass. It was never used as a liturgical item. In addition the tiara used for Pius XII’s coronation in 1939 could not have been worn by Gregory XVI as it was manufactured thirty-one years after Gregory’s death. All the tiaras potentially worn by Gregory still exist; none have writing, nor does the tiara worn by Pius in 1939.

Finally, no evidence as to the existence of the supposed photograph has been produced, nor is it credible that a black and white photograph, taken from a distance inside a darkened St. Peter’s Basilica, in the absence of modern photographic technology or even zoom lenses, could have picked up writing on a far-away tiara, had such writing existed. A photograph of a tiara supposedly on the High Altar behind the coffin of Pope Pius X, at his canonisation in 1954 decades after the supposed original photograph, could not see the jewels on the tiara, much less any supposed writing.

A 1954 photograph of the canonisation of Pope Pius X.Contrary to claims of a cover-up, all tiaras manufactured since 1800 still exist and are on public display, with a number being sent around the world as part of the Saint Peter and The Vatican: The Legacy of the Popes exhibition which visited the United States in 2005. Only a handful, notably the Belgian Tiara of 1871 and the Gold Tiara of 1903, have any writing at all. The 1871 tiara’s inscription is not Vicarius Filii Dei or anything that could be confused with it, but CHRISTI VICARIO – IN TERRA – REGUM (translated: To the earthly Vicar of Christ).

Many historians, academics and mainstream religious leaders view the story as a classic anti-Catholic myth, a story for which no evidence has been found. Even some Seventh-day Adventist scholars no longer support the view that the “666” of Revelation relates to any inscription on a papal tiara.[22]

Your belief is wrong according to your own source! Didn’t you even bother to read it?

 

[Church_Militant]

The Bible was not written in a code. Revelation is no different from any other book. It has a literal, allegorical, moral and anagogical sense, as do all the other books of the Bible. Looking for clues is completely unnecessary.

Well said Bro!

 

[Church_Militant]

But that website doesn’t support your claim; in fact, it actually denies it!

Your belief is wrong according to your own source!

Didn’t you even bother to read it?OH…NOOES!

 

[shawn34_a]

But they rejected the Messiah.

Rejected the Messiah so that the fulfillment of the Gentiles (Church) could take place according to God. Romans 11
If they did not rejected the Messiah, the cruxifiction never would have happen and the Church would not have been founded. Had the fulfillment of the scriptures would not have taken place, Jesus could not be the Messiah.

 

[shawn34_a]

The Bible was not written in a code. Revelation is no different from any other book. It has a literal, allegorical, moral and anagogical sense, as do all the other books of the Bible. Looking for clues is completely unnecessary.

It is different in that John is told to write down what he sees. So we are seeing interpretations based on John’s visions. At least for everything except the 7 thunders which he sees, but is told not to write it down.

 

[MrS]

There were corrupt Popes, that I know much from history but none of them taught heretical doctrines. Popes have promoted war in the name of God like the Crusades for the defense of Christianity.

"

and we know that Solomon wrote the (name removed by moderator)ired Scripture of Proverbs… and in 1 Kings 11 we see he had 700 wives and 300 concubines… I think that outdoes any pope !!!

.

 

[shawn34_a]

That’s bunk…If the Word of God plainly states something then it is not open to our personal interpretation but needs to be taken as given.

You can believe this trash if you wish, but you do so at the sacrifice of plainly stated truth.

Your type of exegesis is one of the main reasons that I am glad to be Catholic and will never return to the n-C churches.

Out of one side of your mouth you tell us that you are Bible only Christians and then when the Word of God says something that proves your beliefs to be wrong, you make up some twisted interpretation to fit it.

Like St. Peter said, “There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.” (2nd Peter 3:16)

No thank you.

That’s not true. Look at all the posts regarding the consecration. The topic pertained to transubstantiation and whether, during the consecration, does the bread and wine become the physical body and blood of Christ. I will not go on about it, but in a nut shell, no. Spiritually it becomes the physical body and blood or Christ, but not literally or else science could prove it. But go to Consecration: Physical or Spiritual if you want to read all about it.

 

[shawn34_a]

The Grand Duchess of Belalugosi here!!

Jerusalem is built on 7 hills…You know how some of the Psalms are called “Songs of Ascent”?? That’s because they were written to be sung by the Jewish people as they climbed the roads into the city of Jerusalm. That despite the hard climb, they were happy to be going to the Temple. (NO doubt Mary & Joseph taught those same songs to the young Jesus!!_

Oh, and we had a list of at least 20 cities built on 7 hills, here on the forums. I think they got lost in the Great Crash…But I know that San Francisco is on 7 hills…You know, San Francisco? In California in the US of A??
Good candidate right there. My Baptist preacher ancestors thought that was the city. Specially after the earthquake & fire. So did a lot of other people.
The Vatican, on the other hand, is not on any of the 7 hills of Rome. It’s not only not in Rome, it’s not in Italy; it’s a country!! (I make rosaries. Papal colors are very popular. Yellow or gold with white.)

Vatican City, officially State of the Vatican City (Latin: Status Civitatis Vaticanae; Italian: Stato della Città del Vaticano), is a landlocked sovereign city-state whose territory consists of a walled enclave within the city of Rome. At approximately 44 hectares (108.7 acres), it is the smallest independent nation in the world and is classified as a microstate.

Wikipedia: Quit with the semantics. Yes, it’s a sovereign nation, but located in Rome.

It was created in 1929 by the Lateran Treaty as a vestige of the much larger Papal States (756 to 1870). Vatican City is a non-hereditary, elected monarchy and is governed by the Bishop of Rome (the Pope). The highest state functionaries are all clergymen of the Catholic Church. It is the sovereign territory of the Holy See (Latin:Sancta Sedes) and the location of the Apostolic Palace—the Pope’s official residence—and the Roman Curia. Thus, while the principal ecclesiastical seat (Cathedral) of the Pope as Bishop of Rome (the Basilica of St. John Lateran) is located outside of its walls, in Rome, Vatican City can be said to be the governmental capital of the Catholic Church.

 

[shawn34_a]

But it’s plainly NOT so, since the Word of God outright identifies the city as Jerusalem.

I thought the Bible was your sole infallible authority?

That’s what the Word of God says, to hold any other belief is straight up unscriptural isn’t it?

This is a rediculuos. But I have chosen Jerusalem, that My name might be there; and have chosen David to be over My people Israel." *** II Chronicles 6:5-6

If Jerusalem was the Harlot, then the nations of the world would not come against her in the end time as they do in the battle of Gog and Magog (Armegedon). It’s also in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 (I believe). Revelations speaks of the same war where all nations will gather against her so all of those down in Judea flee. So it cannot be Jerusalem. Not to mention, the Jews are God’s chosen people.

 

[MrS]

That’s not true. Look at all the posts regarding the consecration. The topic pertained to transubstantiation and whether, during the consecration, does the bread and wine become the physical body and blood of Christ. I will not go on about it, but in a nut shell, no. Spiritually it becomes the physical body and blood or Christ, but not literally or else science could prove it. But go to Consecration: Physical or Spiritual if you want to read all about it.

gee… first the cop out is saying Rev is different… then the Vatican is a city… then you can not prove it is (or is not)… then let science prove it…

nope… not even close to Catholic… and with the sources you and your friends are quoting… even Christian is becoming suspect… IMHO

 

[Penitant]

Lastly Christ is the Church, not the Pope! I accept Jesus’ teachings that are Biblical. A lot of the teachings of the Church are theological with very little to no basis. Jesus opposed divorce, Any many that divorces and remarries commits adultery, It’s amazing that the Church can annul any marriage as if it never happened even if it took place before God, Moses allowed for divorce due to the hardening of man’s heart on limited grounds, In a nutshell, the Catholic Church has more exceptions to the teachings of Christ than any church denomination that I’ve attended,

Yes, Christ is the Church, the Church is the body of believers, and you are not in communion with the body of believers that is the Catholic Church.

I am sure you are aware that lying is a sin. Claiming yourself to be Catholic is a lie. As much as I would love for you to be in communion with myself and the rest of the Church, it is obvious that you are not.

I am sorry if anything I say offends you, but it is offensive to me for you to claim to be in full communion with me and my family (by claiming to be Catholic) when you are not.

Please, as politely as I can, I am asking you to change your profile to reflect truth.

God Bless,
-Penitant

 

[shawn34_a]

If you claim that the harlot is Rome? Read Rev 11:8

and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

Jesus was not crucified in Rome. Jesus died in Jerusalem. The claim that Vatican is the harlot is sadly misinterpret.

the harlot is clearly identified as a city, not a Church. Catholics are often accused of “adding” to the Bible…well, here is a perfect example of adding to the Bible. The harlot of Babylon is a city. Nowhere does the Bible say it is a church. Do these folks take the Bible literally, or not?

When talking about the bodies will lie in the street of the great city, your speaking of the two witnesses that the antichrist will overcome at the end of 1260 days? The abomination of desolation takes place in Jerusalem. What is the abomination of desolation? Well that’s when the antichrist stands in the holiest of holies, revealing himself as God, claiming to be God, speaks blasphemies of the most high, and cuts off the animal sacrifices (no need for them if people believe he’s the messiah). So the antichrist and the one world government will occupy that area already. So the death of the two witnesses there would make sense. Devout Christians will not have their faith shakened. But the great falling away, mentioned by Matthew and in Revelations (refers to lukewarm Christians and those of less faith), need to take heed, for if possible even the very elect may be decieved (Rev also).

Vatican City in Wikipedia
Vatican City, officially State of the Vatican City (Latin: Status Civitatis Vaticanae; Italian: Stato della Città del Vaticano), is a landlocked sovereign city-state whose territory consists of a walled enclave within the city of Rome. At approximately 44 hectares (108.7 acres), it is the smallest independent nation in the world and is classified as a microstate.

The great city mentioned at the death of the two witnesses is Spiritual Sodom and Egypt (you’ll can read up on Sodom and Egype analogy). However the great city mentioned in Rev 18 is not the same city. This is mystery Babylon.

 

[shawn34_a]

Yes, Christ is the Church, the Church is the body of believers, and you are not in communion with the body of believers that is the Catholic Church.

I am sure you are aware that lying is a sin. Claiming yourself to be Catholic is a lie. As much as I would love for you to be in communion with myself and the rest of the Church, it is obvious that you are not.

I am sorry if anything I say offends you, but it is offensive to me for you to claim to be in full communion with me and my family (by claiming to be Catholic) when you are not.

Please, as politely as I can, I am asking you to change your profile to reflect truth.

God Bless,
-Penitant

One day I may change church affiliations. As of today I’m still a member of the Catholic faith and a Knight in the Knights of Columbus. Honestly I feel that the Protestant faiths have issues too. I think both faith profess most of the truths of God. It’s in the middle where I believe the complete truth exists.
You didn’t offend me one bit for my faith strong in the Lord. Oh, ye of little faith! Hopefully your faith isn’t like that of the seeds which fell on rocky places, where theyt did not have much soil. Were not the disciples tested daily? Be steadfast in your belief in Christ, not lukewarm, for he is the light.

 

[shawn34_a]

gee… first the cop out is saying Rev is different… then the Vatican is a city… then you can not prove it is (or is not)… then let science prove it…

nope… not even close to Catholic… and with the sources you and your friends are quoting… even Christian is becoming suspect… IMHO

Quit jumping all over the place. No one emphatically said it was Vatican City. However it is up to you to judge. I personally believe it is Vatican City for too many signs point in that direction. Give me the name of one other city that this can be and don’t say Jerusalem for that’s been excluded already. The antichrist will come against Jerusalem at the abomination of desolation.

Nope… not even close to Catholic. Are we talking of the consecration? What? I can back everything up scriputally and in various locations. Give it a whirl! I try to live according to Christ’s teachings, not the church. The Catholic Church does several things that are contrary to biblical teaching, but is justified by some weak theological arguements.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Quit jumping all over the place. No one emphatically said it was Vatican City. However it is up to you to judge. I personally believe it is Vatican City for too many signs point in that direction. Give me the name of one other city that this can be and don’t say Jerusalem for that’s been excluded already. The antichrist will come against Jerusalem at the abomination of desolation.

Nope… not even close to Catholic. Are we talking of the consecration? What? I can back everything up scriputally and in various locations. Give it a whirl! I try to live according to Christ’s teachings, not the church. The Catholic Church does several things that are contrary to biblical teaching, but is justified by some weak theological arguements.

It is your own personal opinion that you claim it is Vatican City. Back then there was no Vatican City at the time. There is a city in the US that has Seven Hills, Seattle, WA.(source:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle,_Washington )

Like Rome, the city is said to lie on seven hills, sometimes given as First Hill, Capitol Hill, Queen Anne Hill, Magnolia, Beacon Hill, Denny Hill (razed), and Crown Hill. West Seattle allegedly forms an eighth hill, since the highest point in the city rises to 520 feet above sea level there in the High Point neighborhood.

I disagree with you. The Anti-Christ or the 666 is Nero. His Roman Numeral name adds up to 666.

The Catholic Church does teach in according to the teachings of Jesus. He gave us an authoritative Church. He gave the Church the power to bind and loose, and we Catholics are obligated to obey the moral laws of the Church. There is nothing that is contrary in Catholicism, you may cite Mary, praying to the Saints, etc, but we already refuted every remark you have said by Scripture itself and the testimony of the ECF.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Another city that has seven hills is also Providence, Rhode Island. So far we have Seattle, Jerusalem, Providence, I can go on and probably find a lot of cities other than Rome that has seven hills. Amman,Jordan also have seven hills.

If you want me to name them all, give me time.

 

[shawn34_a]

It is your own personal opinion that you claim it is Vatican City. Back then there was no Vatican City at the time. There is a city in the US that has Seven Hills, Seattle, WA.(source:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle,_Washington )

I disagree with you. The Anti-Christ or the 666 is Nero. His Roman Numeral name adds up to 666.

The Catholic Church does teach in according to the teachings of Jesus. He gave us an authoritative Church. He gave the Church the power to bind and loose, and we Catholics are obligated to obey the moral laws of the Church. There is nothing that is contrary in Catholicism, you may cite Mary, praying to the Saints, etc, but we already refuted every remark you have said by Scripture itself and the testimony of the ECF.

I know Vatican City was founded in 1929. Prior to that It was part of the Papal States of Italy in which the Pope headed up. Rome is also identified with the Catholic Church and has been the episcopal seat of the Popes since the 1st century CE. Point is, it existed in another name. But all that is irrelevant for in Revelations, Daniel, and parts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke you are dealing with Phophecy. If it’s God’s desire to create a nation out of nowhere, he can do it.

The 666 on the triple tiara, I’m still trying to verify with my own eyes. There are some very good evangilists out there that make mention to it that I trust on particular matters. Reason being I’ve always been able to verify their claims. However, it’s difficult to find photos of any of the tiaras the Pope wears or has worn. But my opinion had been shaped long before learning of it. Obviously if it were true, I don’t think it would be made public by the Pope. Would you?

 

[shawn34_a]

Another city that has seven hills is also Providence, Rhode Island. So far we have Seattle, Jerusalem, Providence, I can go on and probably find a lot of cities other than Rome that has seven hills. Amman,Jordan also have seven hills.

If you want me to name them all, give me time.

Let’s not forget too that it was the Roman empire in 70 ad ,under the rule of Titus, that destroyed Jerusalem and sent the Jews into exile for 3 days.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

I just found interesting:
Why Rome?

If there is little or no evidence linking Peter with the establishment of the Christian church in Rome, then how and why did Rome become the central church in early Christianity? Why wasn’t the wider Christian community centered on Jerusalem, Antioch, Athens, or other major cities closer to where Christianity got its start?

Actually it would have been surprising if the Roman church hadn’t taken on a leading role — it was, after all, the political center of the Roman empire. Large numbers of people, especially influential people, lived in and around Rome. Large numbers of people were always passing through Rome on political, diplomatic, cultural, and commercial ventures.