Protestant "Saints" - Who would choose to "Canonize"

[Birdchest]

How about Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Killed by the Nazis I think in 1945.However, he may not qualify-I think he was actively involved in an assassination plot against Hitler.
There was a Chinese Christian named Watchman Nee (1903-1972) who died in prison in Red China.
Also Sammy Kaboo Morris, 1873-1893, an African who studied for a time in Taylor University, my alma mater (an evangelical institution in Indiana). He is revered there and there are even a couple of statues of him there.
Sadhu Sundar Singh, an Indian Christian d.1929. I believe he was Anglican.
There was the Swedish chap who rescued Jews in Hungary, Raoul Wallenberg. I know he was protestant, but I don’t know to what extent he was motivated by his faith.
Lastly, there was Marilyn Saga, a protestant missionary in Juana Diaz, Puerto Rico, who was a personal friend. A tall thin woman, she worked in the WCGB radio station and died in the early 1990’s of cancer. I was in the Peace Corps at the time and was unable to make the funeral, but I’m told many people came in from all over the island for the memorial service. She was never married, but was dearly loved by friends. When I separated from the Army in 1985 she loaned me her car, no questions asked. She did things like that for lots of people.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

How about all the War heros? people that mean alot to others even on the other side of the fence? Generals, Admirals, Soldiers, Women like Barbara Fletcher,Ellen White? There are alot but it is not mentioned as much because in the Protestant faith they believe in equality, they are all the same, They are all saints if you believe in Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit. LOL Nancy

 

[JRKH]

Now that you guy’s areall through picking and choosing i would like to say that only God knows who is a saint or a sinner, and no one has the right to cannonize, or judge because someone else said so. i will proberly get in trouble for this but I care not. I think ST Thomas needed a wife and he knew to much about sex, and I cannot understand hwo come if he was without sin or sex. i have had it with beliefs that come from men and not Jesus. How can you [people believe a lie? Inquireing minds want to know. Am i being uncharitable? I only asked a question. there are millions of saints and they are not cathoilc and they are who God chooses. God Hand picks those who are his. from children to whoever, i think all children are saints and innocent baby’s and woman and kids who die in child births. Protestants are just as good as catholics. If you had 2 children and one went to one church and one to another would you still love them both the same?

Nancy -
I’m confused here.
Why the hostility. Did you not read the original post?
Was I not Clear?
Why the hostility toward the good people here who have posted the names of many many good people who are worth looking up and reading about and learning from?

To answer the question you put in the middle of your post, I would say that yes you are being uncharitable by posting something here that is not related to the topic of the thread. Why don’t you start a new thread if you wish to discuss, or vent or whatever, about whether there should be named saints.

Peace
James
[/quote]

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

It reveals more about the poster than the subject. I guess Jack Chick and Alberto Rivera (or whatever his real name is) will be suggested in the next post.

Foxes Book of martyer’s is an excellent book and i owned 3 at on tims and gave them away as a gift because alot of people wanted to read them. i liked the part when this man was going to be burned at the stake and was afraid and the other christian said i’ll tell you what if it to much i will let you know, ut if it ok I will life up my right hand to let you know i am not in any pain, So the next day came and he was going out to be burned and the other man was watching and was scared alot more, but he remembered what his friend said. As they burned him He said nothing, so they through more wood on the fire he looked bad his hair was on fire ETC As his face was melting down he saw his friend lift up his right arm and he cried and when he looked again he through up the second hand, and then the man watching God had been with him just as he said all through the night and he went home to meet the Lord that day.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Nancy -
I’m confused here.
Why the hostility. Did you not read the original post?
Was I not Clear?
Why the hostility toward the good people here who have posted the names of many many good people who are worth looking up and reading about and learning from?

To answer the question you put in the middle of your post, I would say that yes you are being uncharitable by posting something here that is not related to the topic of the thread. Why don’t you start a new thread if you wish to discuss, or vent or whatever, about whether there should be named saints.

Peace
James

OK My point is i dont think man has the right to cannonize or call a person a saint when only Father knows how they are.Come now that is not being uncharitable. When ever you dont like what someone say’s or you cannot defend it you ask for them to go start another thread ot they are uncharitable. Catholics!

 

[Kathy2004]

Oswald Chambers was a very holy man . My Utmost for His Highest is a classic devotional that his wife put together after he died. It is a collection of his writings that I read everyday. He really knew the Lord and true life in the Holy Spirit.

I also love Corrie Ten Boom and have read almost everything she wrote. Her family hid Jews during WWII in Denmark. They were arrested and put into a concentration camp where all died except Corrie. She was released in error. She has gone around the world telling her story and the love of Jesus. There is also a movie about her life called The Hiding Place. I am not sure if she had been deceased for 25 years but it is close. She is a saint, no doubt.

 

[pnewton]

Foxes Book of martyer’s is an excellent book…

That is a strange declaration from one who says they are a Catholic. The book is a classic book in the field of propaganda, specifically, anticatholicism. It was the Jack Chick book of its day. The English Protestant martyrology mingled people executed for religion and those executed for political reasons. Also, it mentions none of those who were murdered as soon as the political winds changed and Catholics were executed by the Protestant monarchs. Once again sometimes for religious reasons and sometimes for religious. The Protestant claim to the moral high road during sixteenth century England is ludicrous. If Mary allowed and promoted the persecution of Protestants during her time, it was only because the technique worked so well for Henry (then for Elizabeth after her).

 

[Della]

OK My point is i dont think man has the right to cannonize or call a person a saint when only Father knows how they are.Come now that is not being uncharitable. When ever you dont like what someone say’s or you cannot defend it you ask for them to go start another thread ot they are uncharitable. Catholics!

And would you include the Virgin Mary in that group of people who no one has the right to say is in heaven or not? Think about what you are saying here…

I’m afraid you are still thinking like your former Protestant denomination–whatever it was–a seemingly anti-Catholic one by what you’ve posted here.

Of course the Church has the right to list people whose lives of heroic virtue ascertain that they are in heaven. The process for a candidate to be canonized is long and the scrutiny with which the person’s life and writings are examined is intense. Besides this, the Church honors those saints who will never be listed but who are most certainly in heaven with a special feast day–All Saints Day.

What no one, not even the Church Christ founded has the right to judge is who is in hell. The Church has never declared anyone in hell–not even Judas. So, your ire is entirely misplaced and misinformed–due no doubt to some of the things you were told in your former denomination.

As for Foxes Book of Martyrs, I too read it when I was in the Assemblies of God and even then I thought it a bit over the top. Just because someone wrote a book doesn’t mean that it is entirely accurate nor that the author(s) didn’t go out of their way to make the Catholic Church look as bad as possible. Now days we call that spin. Well, it was alive and well in the 16 century just as it is today. Unless you can be certain of the facts I’d take a lot of what is written in that book and others like it with a grain of salt.

We here are endeavoring to correct the impression some people have that Catholics think only other Catholics can be thought of as saints in heaven by naming and honoring those Protestants who have shown heroic virtue and whose lives we would wish to imitate as they imitated Christ in their lives. What’s so wrong with that?

 

[JRKH]

OK My point is i dont think man has the right to cannonize or call a person a saint when only Father knows how they are.

And the point of this thread is not a discussion of whether someone has that right. Although I note that Della has addressed this in her post.
The point of this thread is to allow non-catholics (or catholics) to list non-catholic persons who they find to have led lives of “heroic virtue”

Come now that is not being uncharitable.

A apologize for giving offense but all I can say here is that if you do not wish a question answered, then don’t ask the question.

When ever you dont like what someone say’s or you cannot defend it you ask for them to go start another thread ot they are uncharitable. Catholics!

This seems a rather broad statment to make about someone you have had little contact with. My only goal is to try and keep this thread on track and non-confrontational.
As far as asking you to start a seperate thread, that is quite common here and many people actually do it. As to accusing someone of being uncharitable, remember that you posed the question - not me. However, for charities sake I will say no more about this matter and I ask all others to let it drop as well.

Peace
James

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

That is a strange declaration from one who says they are a Catholic. The book is a classic book in the field of propaganda, specifically, anticatholicism. It was the Jack Chick book of its day. The English Protestant martyrology mingled people executed for religion and those executed for political reasons. Also, it mentions none of those who were murdered as soon as the political winds changed and Catholics were executed by the Protestant monarchs. Once again sometimes for religious reasons and sometimes for religious. The Protestant claim to the moral high road during sixteenth century England is ludicrous. If Mary allowed and promoted the persecution of Protestants during her time, it was only because the technique worked so well for Henry (then for Elizabeth after her).

HI Pnewton, it is a book of truth that the Catholic church does not like and I know why. These people did not die in vain and i learned alot my dear from that book I learned about real men and woman who loved the Lord and died for thier religious belifes, not to my surprise. They were good and rightous people, loving and careing and Gods people who were willing to go to their death for the Glory of God, and all the praise and honor and glory, goes to the Father, in Jesus name AMEN!
You are loved Nancy

 

[pnewton]

HI Pnewton, it is a book of truth that the Catholic church does not like and I know why.

It is a book of anticatholic propaganda and rhetoric. We do not like it for the same reason we do not like Jack Chick tracts.

 

[Janet1983]

It is a book of anticatholic propaganda and rhetoric. We do not like it for the same reason we do not like Jack Chick tracts.

I tried to let the case rest in order to obey the request by the starter of this thread…
I wrote a list of names of people who are either already honoured within the Anglican Communion and/or just simply known to me.
I never ever read or even seen said book. The first time that I heard about it was when I found an image from the book in a Wikipedia article.
I could not say whether the book is anti-catholic propaganda or not and I honestly am not concerned with that. I wrote out a couple of names in accordance with the beginning post (at least as far as I understood it, leaving out Calvin, Zwingli, Luther and others).
Said book is not part of mainstream Christian media in Germany so I never got into contact with it.
My post did not refer to it and I am sure that the starter of the thread would agree if we could quit debating it here. There is enough room on this board for those who are interested in a discussion to open such within a designated thread.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

And would you include the Virgin Mary in that group of people who no one has the right to say is in heaven or not? Think about what you are saying here…

I’m afraid you are still thinking like your former Protestant denomination–whatever it was–a seemingly anti-Catholic one by what you’ve posted here.

Of course the Church has the right to list people whose lives of heroic virtue ascertain that they are in heaven. The process for a candidate to be canonized is long and the scrutiny with which the person’s life and writings are examined is intense. Besides this, the Church honors those saints who will never be listed but who are most certainly in heaven with a special feast day–All Saints Day.

What no one, not even the Church Christ founded has the right to judge is who is in hell. The Church has never declared anyone in hell–not even Judas. So, your ire is entirely misplaced and misinformed–due no doubt to some of the things you were told in your former denomination.

As for Foxes Book of Martyrs, I too read it when I was in the Assemblies of God and even then I thought it a bit over the top. Just because someone wrote a book doesn’t mean that it is entirely accurate nor that the author(s) didn’t go out of their way to make the Catholic Church look as bad as possible. Now days we call that spin. Well, it was alive and well in the 16 century just as it is today. Unless you can be certain of the facts I’d take a lot of what is written in that book and others like it with a grain of salt.

We here are endeavoring to correct the impression some people have that Catholics think only other Catholics can be thought of as saints in heaven by naming and honoring those Protestants who have shown heroic virtue and whose lives we would wish to imitate as they imitated Christ in their lives. What’s so wrong with that?

These people that died in lions dens were brave and believed in Jesus and ARE SAINTS AND ARE IN HEAVEN WITH HIM FOR THEY ARE MARTYERS FOR CHRIST. Who can prove differnt,l just because you dont want to believe I am not a clone, I can think on my own and I asm a Catholic but i have my own mind. thank you Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I tried to let the case rest in order to obey the request by the starter of this thread…
I wrote a list of names of people who are either already honoured within the Anglican Communion and/or just simply known to me.
I never ever read or even seen said book. The first time that I heard about it was when I found an image from the book in a Wikipedia article.
I could not say whether the book is anti-catholic propaganda or not and I honestly am not concerned with that. I wrote out a couple of names in accordance with the beginning post (at least as far as I understood it, leaving out Calvin, Zwingli, Luther and others).
Said book is not part of mainstream Christian media in Germany so I never got into contact with it.
My post did not refer to it and I am sure that the starter of the thread would agree if we could quit debating it here. There is enough room on this board for those who are interested in a discussion to open such within a designated thread.

Who cares what you know, there are alot of people who are saints and no one recognises them because you dont know them? All those who believe are Jesus saints. We all suffer in some way and there are all knids of differnt crowns God will be giving out to those who indure and have indured. LOL Nancy

 

[Janet1983]

Who cares what you know, there are alot of people who are saints and no one recognises them because you dont know them?

This got me to thinking about who protestant non-catholics might consider to fit into this mold and why.
…]
Any (name removed by moderator)ut?

I answered the question and that’s it.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I answered the question and that’s it.

FOX’s BOOK of MARTYRS
A History of the lives, sufferings and triumphant deaths of the early Christian and the Protestant martyrs

Edited by William Byron Forbush
“After the Bible itself, no book so profoundly influenced early Protestant sentiment as the Book of Martyrs. Even in our time it is still a living force. It is more than a record of persecution. It is an arsenal of controversy, a storehouse of romance, as well as a source of edification.” - James Miller Dodds, English Prose.
I answered this question and that’s it!

 

[Della]

These people that died in lions dens were brave and believed in Jesus and ARE SAINTS AND ARE IN HEAVEN WITH HIM FOR THEY ARE MARTYERS FOR CHRIST. Who can prove differnt,l just because you dont want to believe I am not a clone, I can think on my own and I asm a Catholic but i have my own mind. thank you Nancy

Okay, I have absolutely no idea what brought this on. But, I do want you to think–I want you to think rightly and fairly.

All who are in heaven are saints, of course, who said otherwise? And many of those are unknown and unsung–didn’t I specifically say so or what? That’s what this whole thread is about, after all.

You may think anything you like, but you have to recognize the fact that you may be mistaken in what you think, especially if you are unwilling to hear anything contrary to what you want to believe even though it’s not as true as you think it is.

 

[JRKH]

To All concerned,

I wish to ask everyone to please let this issue drop. If anyone wishes to continue this line would they please start a seperate thread.
Nancy has made her list of “candidates” as well as her beliefs known and others have made their positions known.

This thread has stayed on ponit with very fiew glitches for over 200 posts. I hate to see it derailed now.

So I am asking everyone - no favorites - to please let it drop. PLEASE???

Peace
James

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Okay, I have absolutely no idea what brought this on. But, I do want you to think–I want you to think rightly and fairly.

All who are in heaven are saints, of course, who said otherwise? And many of those are unknown and unsung–didn’t I specifically say so or what? That’s what this whole thread is about, after all.

You may think anything you like, but you have to recognize the fact that you may be mistaken in what you think, especially if you are unwilling to hear anything contrary to what you want to believe even though it’s not as true as you think it is.

I recognize the fact that history is very distorted now and people change things to suit their purpose and thinking, and beliefs. Did you know the Bismarck was sank from within itself? and that George Washington did not even have a cherry tree in his yard? Alot of history has been bloched to suit whom ever and I do believe the Foxes book is true I have read it several times and it helped me to believe more then ever, and it is the 2nd best sellar after the bible. Very incouraging and to the point. YOU are loved Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I’m willing to drop it but you do know, all those saints did not die in vain, and i will pray and believe in them as long as I live. Peace to you James! God Bless You Nancy