Protestant teaching of Mary

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I agree! But Mary couldn’t of gave birth to Jesus if God didn’t make it possible.
 
Thanks for getting us back to Mary SnowRose.

The catholic church uses Revelation 12:1-6 to support their claim that she was sinless - had no original sin, elevated by God to a special place in heaven at the right hand of Christ, etc. If that is true why did she experience pain during the birth in Rev 12:2?

Rev 12:2 and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

Pain in childbirth was one of the curses put upon the woman in Genesis as punishment for her sin.

Gen 3:16 To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.”

If Mary was sinless why the pain?

FYI the correct exegesis of Rev 12:1-6 finds that the woman represents Israel, not Mary. Unfortunately the RC folks on this forum are blinded to the truth.

I’m sorry you’ve been lied to. I pray the Lord lifts the scales from your eyes so you can see the truth of the scriptures and be born again, before it’s too late.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

This is my last post.
 
I already gave you verses from Songs and Romans and you didn’t even reply. The pangs of pain refer to the work of helping her spiritual children, since Mary is the Mother of the Mystical Body of Christ (or the Church) and most of Revelations is symbolic. I can’t see why the Lady can’t be both Israel and Mary.
 
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Reverse that: Scripture has Church doctrinal roots. How to form a ‘bible Church’ on what has not yet been written? And where is “bible Church” in the bible? Not.

However, it was easy to write what the Church had already believed for decades.

That is the bible.
 
And that was not the point of the thread.
 
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No one denies that! First and foremost the Catholic Church.

Ponder, like Mary, the Archangel Gabriel’s words directly from God to Mary: “Hail, full of grace, the Lord IS with you.”

Ponder also what on earth an anonymous Jewish teenage girl, living in the backwaters of Nazareth (“Can anything good come from Nazareth?”) could do to have:
  1. Found favor with God
  2. Be filled with grace as no other
  3. Bear the Son of God
  4. Become, at God’s will, the mother of God in the flesh
God is not random. Mary did not win the celestial lottery. Jesus created His own mother.

Ponder that…
 
SeriousQuestion said:
I already gave you verses from Songs and Romans and you didn’t even reply. The pangs of pain refer to the work of helping her spiritual children, since Mary is the Mother of the Mystical Body of Christ (or the Church) and most of Revelations is symbolic. I can’t see why the Lady can’t be both Israel and Mary.
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Indeed. Scripture is not an assemblage of proof texts, as it is so often misused today. The written word of an infinite God also has an element of the infinite within it.
 
Consider: Psalm 2 is a Messianic Psalm. OK, so what?

God’s anointed was prophesied to rule with a rod of iron. Remember that.

What do we see in Revelation 12?

The male child of the “Woman” will “rule the nations with a rod of iron”

Oh! Didn’t see that one!

To believe that the woman is the Church is not entirely accurate, as the Church did not birth Christ! Mary did. Christ then birthed the Church via His teaching and the power of the Holy Spirit.

But, in our rotten culture, there is much talk, endless disputation and little pondering.
 
As a recent convert I did for a while struggle with the Mary doctrines. Still do. But I’m only a few weeks in. What I do at the moment is just thank God that Mary said yes to God and lived a holy life. She’s a great example as to how to live. I am happy with asking her to pray for me as I am happy asking my own mother to pray for me, after reading Catholicism for Dummies. I admit to getting freaked out by some of the approved apparitions and prefer to not be devoted to them. If you don’t have a devotion to Mary it’s not the end of the world in terms of your relationship with God but I am going to ask Jesus to lead me how to deal with/think about His mother . That way I can’t go wrong.
 
My Protestants church, or at least many members, mostly holds the belief that Mary did not stay a Virgin.

As for myself though, I’m not sure.
 
I was born a Presbyterian, I remember watching a
HollyWood movie about a Statue of the Virgin coming
to Life and speaking to a nun. Later that night I woke
up in a sweat(it was summer) and thot I saw a ghostly
form, which I took to be the Virgin!! But anyway, we
protestants never emphasized the Blessed Virgin
Mary except in the Nativity story, which is a pity b/c
the BIBLE clearly states that the Virgin Mary is the
new Eve and the final battle is between the WOMAN
and the SERPENT and HER SEED (those who hold
to the Testimony of Jesus) and the Serpent’s seed.
see Gen. 3:15 and Rev. 12
 
The approved apparitions of Mary, such as Guadalupe, Lourdes, and Fatima, are hardly grounds to be disturbed. Mary does not add or subtract anything from Catholic doctrine and teaching. She simply consistently calls us back to the Gospel–prayer, fasting, remembering the reality of heaven and hell and the absolute need to reform our lives now.
In fact, one of the absolute hallmarks of a true vs. false claim of an apparition is that it has nothing contrary to the faith in it.
 
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Why do some Catholics have statues of Mary outside? Why not? Catholic churches have many statues of Jesus and his saints. Some Catholics like to carry the idea of venerating the saints to their gardens, a lovely setting. The Virgin Mary and St. Francis of Assisi are frequent outdoor statues. I have a St. Francis in my garden; my neighbor has a Virgin Mary. A statue is a reminder of prayer, and we pray to Mary and the saints asking for their intercession with God. This is all an integral part of Catholics’ strong and vibrant belief in the Communion of Saints.
 
I remember seeing something about one of the visions ‘I don’t know how long I can hold back my Son’s rage.’ Or words to that effect. I choose not have a devotion to the visions, as is my right
 
ltwin said:
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AugustTherese:
So, an Ecumenical Council can promulgate a metaphysical definition for describing the Dogma of the Trinity, but nothing concerning Mary…? Ok, gotcha.
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An Ecumenical Council can promulgate whatever doctrines it likes, but if its teaching is not based on the Word of God I am not bound to believe it. The Trinity is Scriptural; therefore, I believe it. It could have been promulgated by an uneducated street urchin for all I care; the doctrine’s status comes not from the fact it was adopted by a council but that it is true.
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Then you should be able to post from scripture showing God is a Trinity. Actually Itwin you only know what is scripture from Tradition.
 
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Webo said:
Good protestants use the Bible to know what God says about any question.
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JL: Yes we can easily see that tower of babel, Satan’s playground, scattering people of faith. Creating thousands of contradicting denominations using that same Bible claiming the same Holy Spirit guiding them. Reading and studying the bible as a Protestant is one of the things that brought me into the Catholic Church
Webo said:
Nowhere does the Bible elevate Mary in any way other than being obedient to the will of God. If God did intend to raise Mary to some sort of special position in heaven you’d think that God’s Son would have been in on that plan.
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Maybe you should pay attention when you read the bible.
Webo said:
In Luke 11:27-28 Jesus gently rebukes a woman who tried to bless her or elevate her as someone special.
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Luke 11:27 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” Luke 11:28 But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”
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Total non-sense Webo Jesus didn’t rebuke anyone. On the contrary Mary is twice blessed not only for giving birth to Jesus=God but hearing the word of God and observing it. Actually you are denigrating Jesus implying no one would be blessed for giving birth to him.

[Lk1:45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord. 46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.]
Webo said:
I wouldn’t spend anymore time worshipping Mary and start reading and obeying the word of God.
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Some other supporting passages that show that elevating saints and popes as ones to be worshipped is wrong. And whether or not Catholics call it worship or veneration or anything else, accepting worship like the pope does is taking glory from God and giving it to yourself. See Acts 12:21-23
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JL: You will have to show me how the pope or saints are accepting worship as God or being called god by anyone. Worshiping anyone or thing other than God would be idolatry a deadly sin leading to hell.
 
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Of course it is your right not to care about any of the apparitions. Our faith does not depend on them. But do look more fully into some of the things that concern you, if you want. For example, Jimmy Akin has addressed this issue and the answer may be something you’ve not considered.
http://jimmyakin.com/2007/02/whos_holding_ba.html
 
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