Protestant teaching of Mary

[mcq72]

it could be, but sometimes He is also not a respecter of persons, but for sure who ever does His will is His brother, His mother.

"For whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

 

[Tis_Bearself]

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[SeriousQuestion]

Mary did His will at the Annunciation.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Hello darkness my old friend…

 

[mcq72]

absolutely (making her “immaculate” enough), as she also did the Father’s will on many other spiritual things in the life a Jewish maiden. Jehovah always had a way to become “clean” in His sight, from the Garden of Eden to today.

 

[mcq72]

“I am become a stranger to my brethren, and an alien to the sons of my mother.” Ps. 69:8

Some say this can not be literal (that Mary had other children after Jesus) but rather representative of “Israel”, yet will deny that the “woman” in Revelation is “Israel” but claim it is a literal Mary.

If it is both for one it is both for both.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

There are other Old Testament references to the perpetual virginity such as those of Ezekiel and the Songs. The sons could represent the sinners that caused Jesus the agony and as members of the Church have Mary as a mother.

 

[po18guy]

In other words, no answer?

 

[Dlee]

If you don’t have a devotion to Mary it’s not the end of the world in terms of your relationship with God but I am going to ask Jesus to lead me how to deal with/thinkT about His mother . That way I can’t go wrong.

This pretty much sums up my current status. I struggle with the devotion part. My priest just told me this is very normal for converts. I continue to ask Christ to show me and lead me to His mother, and I believe He will. After all, He led me to the truth of the Catholic Church. As they say, “Rome wasn’t built in a day!”

 

[Crocus]

@Dlee I find it tremendously inspiring to see people who have difficulties with one or another beliefs/practices, and who consciously choose to offer it up to our Lord in humility and obedience. Thank you for your witness.

 

[po18guy]

1. Since Christ commands us to listen to the Apostles (Luke 7:16) and…

CORRECTION: Luke 10:16.

My OCD must have been acting up.

 

[ZMystiCat]

I would think OT also suggests that God’s presence makes something or someone holy, and not the other way around.

It isn’t that we believe Mary made Jesus holy. It’s that Mary needed to be holy to receive Jesus into herself as she did. God made her holy so that she could do that.

The Old Testament in general showed God as pretty protective of Himself and His dwelling. The Ark of the Covenant, of which Mary is an even greater one considering she bore God physically, is a good example. People weren’t even allowed to touch it, and there were a lot of requirements on things like how it needed to be carried, crafted, etc. There were also strict requirements for who could enter the Holy of Holies.

Somewhere Christ touched fallen flesh, and walked on fallen soil, after all, His destiny as a man was to take on, to become, the sin of the world.

The Earth never served as His vessel, nor is it capable of sin and offense to Him. It’s one thing to walk in a world suffering under sin. It is another to dwell inside that which is unholy. Again, God was very particular in the Old Testament about His dwelling. It makes sense that He would hold Himself to the same, if not higher, standard in the New Testament as He did so physically.

Faith pleases God, and that response to the angel’s message from Mary made her immaculate enough for the Spirit to come upon her

Except Mary was called Full of Grace prior to her response. She cooperated with the grace God had already filled her with. We believe God, by nature of protecting his dwelling, had been filling her with grace from the moment of her conception, since He had selected her beforehand to be the vessel that would bring Him into the world.

At best Christ’s tabernacle was His own flesh, and that was immaculate.

I find that dangerous. It treats Jesus’ body as merely some shell he inhabited, not a part of who He is, and that leads to all kinds of dangerous teachings on Christ and humans in general.

 

[Francis]

Mary was a pious woman, but sinful.

As the Heavenly Father also gave to our first parents Adam and Eve who sinned it was like a storm which ruined their lives God gave a Hope of Mother Mary and promised salvation and restoration of Grace in Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee (satan) and the woman (Mother Mary), and thy (satan’s children =wicked people, anti-Christ ) seed and her (Mary) seed (Jesus and Christians): she shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Song of Solomon 4:7 You(Mary) are all fair, my love; there is no flaw(sin) in you.

Jesus’ brothers are half-brothers she conceived with Joseph.

Absolutely wrong, Lot is referred to as the brother of Abram in the OT. Yet we know he wasn’t his brother but rather Abram’s uncle’s son. The fact is that in ancient Israel they used the term “brother” or “brethren” to refer to blood relations. Furthermore, if Mary had other children why did Jesus place her in the care of the Apostle John as Christ died? If there were other children they would be required to care for her. Hmmm. Additionally, Now, since Jesus was first born, these “brothers”, if they really were biological siblings would be younger than Jesus and Hebraic culture would not allow for a younger sibling to demand an older sibling to do anything.

She died just like the rest of us.

Sorry Scriptures prove it wrong

Song of Solomon 6:9 Who is she(Mary) that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army set in array?

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail.Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 21:1-3 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth was gone, and the sea is now no more.

2 And I John saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem(Mary), coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: Behold the tabernacle of God with men, and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people; and God himself with them shall be their God.

 

[Francis]

After Christ was born Mary and Joseph had a normal marriage including having other children

no Joseph had no children with Mary .as said in Mary wife of Cleophas and sister of the Virgin Mary (Jn 19:25) is the mother of James and Joset (Mk 15:47; Mt 27:56) who are called the brothers of Jesus (Mk 6:3). Acts 1:12-15 … apostles, Mary, some women and Jesus brothers number about 120. That is a lot of brothers. Gen 14:12-14 … Lot, Abrahams nephew (Gen 11:26-28), described as Abrahams brother (KJV). Gen 29:15 … Laban, Jacobs uncle, calls Jacob his brother

 

[Francis]

Evangelicals don’t tend to think about Mary much. Nor do they typically place much emphasis on the Dedication and Southern Baptists will outright downplay the wedding at Cana. Mary doesn’t really exist beyond the stable.

Well,in the whole Bible it is written about her right from Genesis to Revelation John17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth there is no Jesus without Mary and there is Mary with Jesus

Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is not this why you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God?

Seems like Devil is working over time John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

[mcq72]

t isn’t that we believe Mary made Jesus holy. It’s that Mary needed to be holy to receive Jesus into herself as she did. God made her holy so that she could do that.

Yes, He certainly cleansed her, made her holy, as He does each of us upon entering.

 

[Limoncello4021]

Remember that Simeon said to Mary that a sword would pierce her heart, “so that the thoughts of many may be revealed.” Note how they are revealed in this thread.
Blessed are you among women!

 

[po18guy]

Mary was foreshadowed in the Book of Judith - the story of a celibate Jewish woman/widow whose single-handed accepting of great personal risk saved Israel from death by dehydration when surrounded by the Assyrian army. She not only struck the head of the Assyrian General, Holofernes, she lopped it off with his own sword.

Once she exited the Assyrian camp - her body undefiled, she and her servant carried the head of Holofernes back as proof. The Assyrians fled in terror and confusion upon finding that their leader had been defeated by a single woman.

For her act of heroism, Judith was praised (Judith 13:18-20):

And Uzzi′ah said to her, “O daughter, you are blessed by the Most High God
above all women on earth; and blessed be the Lord God, who created the
heavens and the earth, who has guided you to strike the head of the
leader of our enemies. Your hope will never depart from the hearts of men,
as they remember the power of God. May God grant this to be a perpetual
honor to you, and may he visit you with blessings, because you did not spare
your own life when our nation was brought low, but have avenged our ruin,
walking in the straight path before our God.” And all the people said,
“So be it, so be it!”

It is clear that Judith was a “type” of the woman to come - whose single handed action at great personal risk, bought about the salvation, not just of Israel, but of the entire world. The perpetual honor given to Judith squares solidly with “All generations will call me blessed”. And Mary was similarly praised - not by a public or even a temple official, but by Gabriel (i.e. God the Father) as well as Elizabeth, who was filled with the Holy Spirit.

But of course, protestant bibles long ago excised this book. That is, as they say, another story.

 

[Francis]

Later typology not mentioned by the apostles, and certainly not the meaning the Judahites would have understood at the time Ezekiel was preaching to them.

Later typology not mentioned by any apostle you can name. Definitely not the intended meaning of the author of Samuel

Not relevant to any of the dogmas stated here.

jlhargus:

Not remotely related to any of the dogmas in its reading. Another later typology not mentioned by any apostle you can name.

Not supportive of any of the dogmas. Many people are said to have God’s favor though they sinned.

I don’t think there is any disagreement on Mary being the Mother of Christ.

Not sure how this is relevant.

Again, no disagreement on Mary being the Mother of Christ.

Well,not necessary that all be mentioned by the apostles John 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

As you can see, the vast majority of these references are stretches of the text to anachronistically read into the text dogmas that are not explicitly, or even implicitly referenced by any of the New Testament writers. While I find there are troubling things in the second order effects of some of the Marian dogmas (primarily I would argue they diminish the divinity of Christ), these would be matters of adiaphora, which is why we don’t hold them as de fide matters of doctrine deserving of the curse of anathema if they are questioned.

Matthew 26:56 But all this has taken place, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled…

Romans 15:4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that by steadfastness and by the encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope.

Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ (Word of God)is the same yesterday and today and forever.

 

[mcq72]

Yes, Calvary is the pivot point, the stumbling block, the revealer of the hearts of men.