Protestant that agree...

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Namesake said:
What good would you find in a church that would provide for all who ask?
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When people ask for the Sacraments in the Catholic Church, they are not refused, but they are made to understand that they must receive instruction and spiritual preparation before undertaking to do so for the first time. For people who are not yet Catholic, this entails a process of RCIA or equivalent; for children born into the faith, it entails a combination of instructions and preparatory activities at home, at school, and at Church.

One does not simply help oneself to the Sacraments as though one were at a Chinese-American buffet.

When they ask for other things (food, shelter, clothing, and other physical necessities) we give according to our ability, and according to the need.
 
NonDenom said:
The city where I live is a suburb to a much larger city. We have 14 Churches that are in agreement with us on the essentials concerning faith and doctrines.
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If so, then why not save on office and building maintenance expenses by shutting down 13 of them, turning them into old age or low income housing, keeping the largest or best building and bringing all of the people into one building, where they can more efficiently pool their resources to assist the poor and spread the Gospel in your community? 🤷

Or if that won’t work due to sentimental rivalries, sell all 14 buildings, and build a brand new one that doesn’t favour any particular congregation’s sentimental feelings, and have them all gather there on Sundays. (Incorporate the histories of the original 14 buildings into the design of the new one, and make sure that important figures of the past remain remembered, of course.)
 
COGHOBDOJ said:
You mean the wording on the church signs are different, but the heart of the members are the same?!?!?
LUDICROUS!!! 😛
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If I used your same arrogant analogy I could say that “Saint Mary’s Catholic Church and Queen of Apostles Church can’t be in agreement because their signs read different”
That would be as you put it “LUDICROUS”
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jmcrae said:
If so, then why not save on office and building maintenance expenses by shutting down 13 of them, turning them into old age or low income housing, keeping the largest or best building and bringing all

of the people into one building, where they can more efficiently pool their resources to assist the poor and spread the Gospel in your community? 🤷

Or if that won’t work due to sentimental rivalries, sell all 14 buildings, and build a brand new one that doesn’t favour any particular congregation’s sentimental feelings, and have them all gather there on Sundays. (Incorporate the histories of the original 14 buildings into the design of the new one, and make sure that important figures of the past remain remembered, of course.)
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I just did a count from the phone books in Council Bluffs and Omaha and surrounding communitys. I found 107 different Catholic Churchs, I’m sure that if you asked them to do the same thing they wouldn’t have a problem with that. I’m sure they would pick one or two churchs and conver the rest into homeless shelters, I mean that would be a good way to show the homeless the Catholic Church, right.
 
NonDenom said:
I just did a count from the phone books in Council Bluffs and Omaha and surrounding communitys. I found 107 different Catholic Churchs, I’m sure that if you asked them to do the same thing they wouldn’t have a problem with that. I’m sure they would pick one or two churchs and conver the rest into homeless shelters, I mean that would be a good way to show the homeless the Catholic Church, right.
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We only have one Catholic Church per suburb, though.

With active non-Catholic Christians being less than half the population of active Catholics, on average, why does one suburb need 14 non-Catholic churches? 🤷
 
COGHOBDOJ said:
So many ways to answer this. Let’s see…

My pastor DOES NOT speak of other churches/denominations. His authority is only over HIS flock. His heart is not to debate adn argue, his heart is to bring the gospel to the lost and disciple believers to have the heart of Jesus by serving the poor, orphan and the widow.

Funny you should speak about my heart. In the 3 days I’ve been here, several of your follow posters have determined they know what’s in my heart. One accused me of not really meeting Jesus, but just having some emotional event. Mind you, I’m of the belief that people can have fellowship with Christ despite what church they attend. So, I’m in no way anti catholic, I just don’t fall into majority opinions. I’ve formed my opinions and perspectives from my experience and reading/studying the bible. So, take that for what’s its worth.

Well, that “emotional event” has led to things that i’ve never experienced in the first 28 years of the Catholic Church. (I don’t blame the church, its my fault, I’m to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling) It’s led to me spending more time with God in prayer, in bible study and in service with my local church. It’s led to me being a better husband and father. It’s led to me being a better steward of my God given finances, which in turn has led me to being a better giver than I’ve ever been in my life. It’s led me to discover my God given gifts and how to use them best for His Kingdom. It’s led to my pursuing full time ministry.

So, from my perspective, I wouldn’t go back and do anything differently. FOR ME PERSONALLY, 28 years of walking in the Catholic Church produced very little. So, I really find it hard to understand how anyone can argue my spiritual walk over the past 6 years and THE FRUITS it has produced. But, because I didn’t take part in the Sacraments, its null and void in some people’s eyes.

I sleep well at night, no worries or convictions. I see promises from God in the bible that are coming true for me based on my horrible attempt to love Him and serve Him and despite me and because of His Grace.

I’ve met some who went from Protestant to Catholicism and have found rekindled faith through Catholicism. Well, God Bless them.

You think its a curse to have different churches, I think its a blessing. Ever think the only reason there is division is cause people like some posters here keep dividing, arguing and debating?

So, what seems so obvious to you, is different than what seems obvious to me. We can throw scriptures at each other to prove our point, or we can wait 'til we get to Heaven and laugh about how immature, stubborn, narrow-minded and egotistical we were and laugh about it all over a supper.

P.S. You might want to encourage those who are hell bent on convincing me my existing life is full of ignorance and soon to be regrets that they may want to drop the condescending and sarcastic remarks and try to mirror the image of Christ more.

With each condeming and accusing remark from these folks, they lose credibility. A simple review of the Fruits of the Spirit in Galatians before commenting will do us all some good.
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Sounds to me as if you are making excuses for these 30,000 denominations. Many will come in my name says the Lord…
 
NonDenom said:
If I used your same arrogant analogy I could say that “Saint Mary’s Catholic Church and Queen of Apostles Church can’t be in agreement because their signs read different”
That would be as you put it “LUDICROUS”
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Sorry, you misinterpreted me. I meant that even though the signs on the church are different, the heart of the people serving those churches are the same. To share the gospel, to love the poor, widowed and the orphans. Those things which are priorities to Our Lord and Savior.

Sorry:blush:
 
jmcrae said:
So, if you go to Hell, it will be the fault of those who warned you that you might? :rolleyes:
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I don’t conceive of any possibilities of me going to hell. I’ve accepted God’s Plan of Salvation by my personal and public profession of my faith in the finished work of The Cross by Christ Jesus. Shucks, I’ve even been baptised TWICE! The Holy Spirit resides within me and He is the lamp at my feet and light of my path. He guides my way. When I miss the mark, He is faithful and just to forgive my confessed sins.

If not, He died for nothing…

BTW: Which Fruit of the Spirit guides your comment? Love? Joy? Peace? Patience? Kindness? Gentleness? Goodness? Longsuffering? Faithfulness? Which one?
 
COGHOBDOJ said:
I don’t conceive of any possibilities of me going to hell.
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You have left Christ’s Church.
I’ve accepted God’s Plan of Salvation by my personal and public profession of my faith in the finished work of The Cross by Christ Jesus.
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Are you sure that’s all it takes? Just a few magic words, and you’re saved forever?
Shucks, I’ve even been baptised TWICE!
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The heresy of the Anabaptists; I thought you said you believed in the Creed? “I believe in one baptism, for the remission of sins.” Not two.
The Holy Spirit resides within me and He is the lamp at my feet and light of my path. He guides my way. When I miss the mark, He is faithful and just to forgive my confessed sins.
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How do you have any “confessed sins,” if you don’t go to Confession? 🤷
If not, He died for nothing…
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He died for His Church. You in, or you out?
BTW: Which Fruit of the Spirit guides your comment? Love? Joy? Peace? Patience? Kindness? Gentleness? Goodness? Longsuffering? Faithfulness? Which one?
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I might ask the same of you. You’re a grown-up - we shouldn’t have to molly-coddle you.
 
jmcrae said:
You have left Christ’s Church.

Are you sure that’s all it takes? Just a few magic words, and you’re saved forever?

The heresy of the Anabaptists; I thought you said you believed in the Creed? “I believe in one baptism, for the remission of sins.” Not two.

How do you have any “confessed sins,” if you don’t go to Confession? 🤷

He died for His Church. You in, or you out?

I might ask the same of you. You’re a grown-up - we shouldn’t have to molly-coddle you.
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WOW. Well, just let me know where you go to church! You’ve encouraged me, you’ve edified me. I’m inspired! I can’t wait to fellowship with a group like you!

I better get there early! If you’re part of the welcoming/greeters committee, I’m sure the building is busting at the seams!

HAHAHA! Thanks. I needed a good chuckle. 😃
 
COGHOBDOJ said:
WOW. Well, just let me know where you go to church! You’ve encouraged me, you’ve edified me. I’m inspired! I can’t wait to fellowship with a group like you!

I better get there early! If you’re part of the welcoming/greeters committee, I’m sure the building is busting at the seams!

HAHAHA! Thanks. I needed a good chuckle. 😃
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Yer not bein’ mean ta me, are ya? :crying: :crying: :crying:

😛
 
jmcrae said:
Yer not bein’ mean ta me, are ya? :crying: :crying: :crying:

😛
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Actually I appreciate this experience. Gives me a perspective of how Catholics are treated on Non Catholic message boards.

I try to mediate in those too, cause I respect the Catholic faith adn my experience there. But, in the end, I end up getting blasted by both sides.

It’s not easy bein’ me…
 
First let me explain that I really in no way mean any disrespect toward non-catholics. Anyone who believes in Jesus is alright with me. I just think that you are being misled and need to research history. If every non-catholic walked in the footsteps of Scott Hahn, and the other converts who painstakingly researched their history, and came to a realization that Christ did in fact start the Catholic faith, they’d be shocked to find that it is true.
Who knows? One day we will have to come together as one unity in Christ against Muslim, as we are learning there is a Holy war going on as we speak. Christians especially Catholics are being killed every day all over the world. 😦 They are fleeing Israel, they are fleeing Africa etc…pray we will prevail in the end as our Blessed Mother has told us.
 
I have read and heard Scott Hahn’s testimony. I also have heard many converts in the opposite direction. Again, as I have stated before, I believe The Holy Spirit is the common denominator.

I serve a missionary in East Asia who served under Mother Theresa and now practices her faith under a non denominational faith. Mother Theresa herself supported her decision to leave her vocation as a nun and now, she runs a orphanage and a bible school in a country that oppresses Christians. This government that supports another false religion is the same government that orphans those babies. She is a light in a dark world. She is bringing the lost to Christ in that country.

Many may disagree and I’m really OK with that. But, when I read the bible, the OT and NT, I’m encouraged and convicted to have a change of heart, to transform my spirit to the image of Christ. I see that can be done with or apart from traditions that we have created by our interpretation of scripture.

What leads me to that conclusion is that God sees our heart. There are many examples in the bible of people fulfilly The Law, but doing it with a wrong heart, as the Pharisees did. We’re all subject to the sin of the Pharisees. We can celebrate the Mass and the Sacraments and be hell bound. We can say a sinner’s prayer, fill out a card, answer an alter call and be hell bound.

God does not desire our sacrifices, He desires mercy, He desires a transformation of our heart to mirror the image of His. That can be done in a Catholic arena or a Protestant arena or a non denominational arena. Any arena where the Gospel is proclaimed.

Any time spent in these debates will show that both sides are standing firm in the way they were taught. Both sides have their interpretation of given scripture. I don’t proclaim to know the right answer. But, the scriptures BOLDLY proclaim a blessed assurance for those who place their faith in the finished work of the Cross. I also believe the scriptures that proclaim faith without works is dead. The argument then is what is “works.”

And on and on and on the debate goes.
 
To answer someone’s “why so many protestant churches in a suburb” or to that effect, each Protestant is a church unto himself.

Because their Pastor doesn’t “pastor” them,
they are their own pastors.

They don’t believe in being taught the Word of God.
They just go to services…“to go”.

See, to them, no man can teach them The Holy Bible.
They read it and it is revealed to them.

Now, why so many Catholic Churches?

Because Catholicism is the single largest Christian group in the US.

BUT!

All those Churches are “one” in deed, in word and in worship.

I’ve been to mass in New York, California, Wisconsin, Florida, Arizona and Puerto Rico.

Guess what…it’s been the same Church.

So why the names?

Imagine asking for directions for “The Catholic Church” in a town where there are 30 Paishes?

How do you know which one it is?

Parish # 1 on Main Street?

The Church’s names are (as is religions’ purpose to) to bring about and evoke a sentiment. For example, instead of calling Church #27 on Elm Street “Church #27”, it may be called Saint Joseph’s. Why? The mention of his name evokes and image.
It is Christian Verbal Art.

But again, Saint Joseph’s is the same as Sacred Heart as Holy Family is. All, “one” Church…just in different places.

Jesus sent out His Apostles to multiply what He brought forth, The Gospel. He didn’t send them out to do it their own way. They were to teach what He taught…“one” doctrine.

I am in no way putting down Protestant churches by stating Catholic fact…The Catholic Church represents what the Biblical definition of a “Church” is supposed to be according to God.

There is to be an altar, a tabernacle, the Eucharist, a Priesthood, etc…

So was it in the beginning of worship to God, so was it with Christ and so will it be in the future (Revelations) in Heaven when all is accomplished.
 
COGHOBDOJ said:
… I end up getting blasted by both sides.

It’s not easy bein’ me…
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This is what comes of not picking a side to be on. 😃

You cannot say that two completely opposite things are the same Truth. They are not. At least one of them is wrong, and that’s when we have to look at history to see what Christ actually did (did He found 33,000 mutually conflicting denominations, or One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church?), rather than to anyone’s interpretation of the Bible, which is purely subjective on all sides.
 
COGHOBDOJ said:
WOW. Well, just let me know where you go to church! You’ve encouraged me, you’ve edified me. I’m inspired! I can’t wait to fellowship with a group like you!
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Sacred Heart, in downtown Calgary, which is in fact, packed to the walls for every Mass. We don’t “fellowship” there, or go on any little ego trips; we worship God with His Angels and with His Saints, on the Holy Altar, in holiness and in truth. 👍
 
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